New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Colin Parkinson]

Maybe if we all sent wooden name boards with ship names to the MND's office with a piece of paper behind it that said: "Peel and stick to ship hull" they might get the hint.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Here are my choices for the AOPS, Inuit community names:

HMCS Puvirnituq; HMCS Kuujjuaraapik; HMCS Inukjuak; HMCS Kangiqsujuaq; HMCS Umiujaq; HMCS Kangiqsualujjuak; and, HMCS Quaqtaq.

Look them up, they all are real community names. Ought to make it interesting talking to radio operators at Vancouver and Halifax Traffic

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Here are my choices for the AOPS, Inuit community names:

HMCS Puvirnituq; HMCS Kuujjuaraapik; HMCS Inukjuak; HMCS Kangiqsujuaq; HMCS Umiujaq; HMCS Kangiqsualujjuak; and, HMCS Quaqtaq.

Look them up, they all are real community names. Ought to make it interesting talking to radio operators at Vancouver and Halifax Traffic

*snicker* We will have to take them on an exercise just to listen to the Greeks or Turks try and pronounce those names.  >

 

[MarkOttawa]

How the Aussies save money, increase capabilities--buy foreign designs (Spanish in these cases) and have some of the work done abroad.  Two pieces from Defense Industry Daily:

Aussie Anti-Air Umbrella: The Hobart Class Ships
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/aussie-anti-air-umbrella-the-hobart-class-ships-03409/

Australia’s Canberra Class LHDs
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/australias-canberra-class-lhds-03384/

We've finally done that for some new Coast Guard vessels (though all construction will be done in Canada),
http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIX/2009sep00032.html

now what about that Dutch JSS?
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/78466/post-888125#msg888125

Mark
Ottawa

 

[RC]

How the Aussies save money, increase capabilities--buy foreign designs (Spanish in these cases) and have some of the work done abroad.  Two pieces from Defense Industry Daily:

Aussie Anti-Air Umbrella: The Hobart Class Ships
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/aussie-anti-air-umbrella-the-hobart-class-ships-03409/

Australia’s Canberra Class LHDs
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/australias-canberra-class-lhds-03384/

We've finally done that for some new Coast Guard vessels (though all construction will be done in Canada),
http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIX/2009sep00032.html

now what about that Dutch JSS?
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/78466/post-888125#msg888125

Mark
Ottawa

I notice that to suit you're opinion, you've conveniently ignored that the Damen design for the mid shore patrol vessels doesn't meet half the government's requirements and the decision to accept only previously built designs will leave them with a ship that does not reflect Canadian needs.

You've also failed to mention the CG's FSV fiasco where blindly following the idea that foreign designs are somehow superior and there is no design capability in Canada, the government sole sourced a foreign design that cost the taxpayers 2 million dollars and proved to be useless to their needs.

Canadian designers have no problem with competing internationally as that's what they do on a regular basis and they are quite successful at it, but to suggest that the Canadian government should buy foreign designs because they are somehow better than Canadian designs is simply ignorant and disrespectful to the capability of the Canadian naval architecture and marine engineering community, which is well respected in the rest of the world.

I sincerely hope that you will educate yourself on the contributions of Canadian companies in this domain and cease to spread misleading information that is damaging to national interests.

 

[mikhar1]

I believe  that Canada should create their own designs and build on their own needs for once we should be doing what we can at home and be proud of what we are putting out.  Designed in Canada built in Canada for Canada.

I know the Americans have a lot more money but we can do just what they do and build on it like they did so that our ship building industry can one day become one of the best in the world, we don't have far to go.

 

[Nemecek]

Just before the mods get angry, you should tidy up your post a little!

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I believe  that Canada should create their own designs and build on their own needs for once we should be doing what we can at home and be proud of what we are putting out.  Designed in Canada built in Canada for Canada.

I know the Americans have a lot more money but we can do just what they do and build on it like they did so that our ship building industry can one day become one of the best in the world, we don't have far to go.

Please back up your claims.

Milnet.Ca Staff

 

[Neill McKay]

I believe  that Canada should create their own designs and build on their own needs for once we should be doing what we can at home and be proud of what we are putting out.  Designed in Canada built in Canada for Canada.

That's been the practice for most federal government ship procurements for quite a while.  All current naval vessels except the submarines were built in Canada, as were a good portion of Coast Guard vessels.  I think most of the current and former Marine Atlantic ferries were built in Canada as well, but I'm not certain of that.  (I know some were not.)

I know the Americans have a lot more money but we can do just what they do and build on it like they did so that our ship building industry can one day become one of the best in the world, we don't have far to go.

The biggest problem with the Canadian shipbuilding industry is that there isn't the volume of work that it needs to keep itself in good shape.  The federal government tends to buy ships in large numbers, but not very often.  So, for example, when the Canadian Patrol Frigate programme was going on we had two shipyards geared up to build frigates.  After that there was very little work to keep them going.  A lot of the professionals and tradesmen in the industry left to find work elsewhere.  Then, when it comes time to order another dozen ships you have to rebuild the shipbuilding industry almost from scratch.

Another factor is that it's usually a lot cheaper to build ships overseas, so Canadian shipyards have a lot of trouble competing for work.  While the federal government makes a point of building its ships in Canada, nobody else does.  (BC Ferries had its biggest ships built in Germany a few years ago and the Province of New Brunswick has a ferry under construction in Florida.)

 

[GK .Dundas]

Discussed time and time again.

and still being discussed

 

[mikhar1]

This really is starting to pi$$ me off, Why Can't the government just put the money on the table for the right amount of ships and the right equipment to go with those ships.  To save a little moeny just buy the plans for artic ships from like Sweden they have really great light artic navy ships.  We could then just build them here in Canada.

COME ON!!!

Navy struggles to keep northern ships in budget


Wed, Aug 25 - 4:53 AM
OTTAWA (CP) — Federal documents say National Defence has reserved the right to build fewer of the Conservative government’s vaunted Arctic offshore patrol ships — or further water down the capabilities of the warships — in order to stay within the project’s budget envelope.

Military planners have struggled, almost from the moment the government was elected in 2006, to fulfil Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s pledge to put armed "ice capable" ships in the far North to enforce Canada’s sovereignty.

The government plans to build six light icebreakers for $3.1 billion.

Minutes from a series of internal planning meetings running from 2007 to 200 paint a picture of frustration among officials who are charged with designing and building ships that critics have said are more suited for the coast guard.

At issue is the government’s demand for a Canadian-built warship, but insistence on strict budget discipline, something one official called "inappropriate on shipbuilding projects."

Others said there needed to be flexibility in the system so that officials could accept fewer ships — or the same number of ships, but with less capability.

 

[aesop081]

*snicker* We will have to take them on an exercise just to listen to the Greeks or Turks try and pronounce those names.  >

Meh.........its all JNAP anyways......

 

[RC]

To save a little moeny just buy the plans for artic ships from like Sweden they have really great light artic navy ships.  We could then just build them here in Canada.

Can you describe some of the characteristics of these Swedish light arctic ships?  I can't find any information on anything remotely close to an arctic capable ship out of Sweden.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Can you describe some of the characteristics of these Swedish light arctic ships?  I can't find any information on anything remotely close to an arctic capable ship out of Sweden.

The Swedish Coast Guard does not even have ice breakers but judging by his posts he types before he thinks things through.

 

[57Chevy]

I found a little something of interest.
Nordic Nations Eye Joint High North Patrols

In terms of Arctic defense assets, Sweden and Norway bring the most to the table. Sweden's Berga-based 1st Marine Regiment includes a corvette squadron (two Göteborg class and support ship), a mine-countermeasures squadron (Landsort class and support ship), one submarine (Gotland class), and a forward naval support element. The Swedish Navy's Gotland and Södermanland-class submarines are customized for operations in Arctic waters.

Sweden's Arctic-capable naval assets also include newly built Visby-class stealth corvettes.

Norway has invested heavily since the late 1990s in the development of naval ships capable of operating in Arctic waters. Most of the five Fridtjof Nansen-class frigates ordered have been commissioned, with the last, the Helge Ingstad (F313), expected to enter service this autumn.

more on link...
          (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

 

[jollyjacktar]

Shared with the usual caveats. 

This is about bloody time, shame it was not also for new AORs too.

First steel plate cut for new coast guard vessels

The Canadian Press

Date: Thursday Sep. 2, 2010 10:45 AM ET

HALIFAX — Federal Fisheries Minister Gail Shea has cut the first steel plate for nine new patrol vessels to be built for the coast guard -- a year to the day the contract was announced.  Shea was joined today at the Halifax Shipyard by workers, Defence Minister Peter MacKay and Nova Scotia Premier Darrell Dexter.

A $194-million contract for the mid-shore patrol vessels was awarded last Sept. 2 to Irving Shipbuilding Inc.  The first vessel is expected to be ready for service next year, with all nine vessels scheduled for delivery by 2013.  They will replace vessels that are nearing the end of their life expectancies.  Irving Shipbuilding estimates up to 155 people will work on the project with suppliers across Canada benefiting from millions of dollars in purchases of goods and services.

 

[The Bread Guy]

".... This Solicitation of Interest and Qualification (SQIQ) is the first step of a competitive process to select two Canadian shipyards to build large ships under long-term strategic sourcing arrangements with the Government of Canada. Every Interested Party that has demonstrated compliance with the terms stipulated in this SOIQ document will be short-listed and be invited to participate in the ensuing Request for Proposals (RFP) process ...."

More on SQIQ in attached bid document - more on the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy (NSPS) Work Packages here.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

As Yoda would say: "To qualify for selection good is, to large ships build even better is".

 

[RC]

I hear rumours that there has been another delay in the process.  Any news?

 

[MarkOttawa]

What the gov't does not mention is that the CCG's MSPVs are a Dutch design (thank goodness, saves money):
http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIX/2009sep00032.html

http://www.damen.nl/index.aspx?mId=8572&rId=544

As for the shipbuilding strategy more generally, a post at the Canadian Defence & Foreign Affairs Institute's 3Ds Blog:

The Government’s Fun with Shipbuilding Money and Numbers
http://www.cdfai.org/the3dsblog/?p=93

Here too a foreign angle could well help reduce costs for the CSC:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/99004/post-1017397.html#msg1017397

Mark
Ottawa