New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Halifax Tar]

You mean they weren't happy with the quality of work done by our highly skilled and professional workforce.

Done to the best industry standards I would imagine with excellent craftsmanship

We must be approaching the definition of insanity...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We are not the only ones with a NSS

Britain sets out shipbuilding plans for next 30 years

More than 150 new naval and civil vessels will be built in the UK over the next 30 years. The vessels will include large warships, Border Force cutters, lighthouse vessels and the new National Flagship.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

 

[Colin Parkinson]

A bit more, seen the Brits are rethinking some of their previous measures

Royal Navy to take control naval base support fleets

In December 2022, the Royal Navy will take ownership of a fleet of vessels that currently provide various harbour services at naval bases in Devonport, Faslane and Portsmouth.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

 

[Maxman1]

Another "would be nice to have" ship is the Danish Absalon-class frigate/support ship/transport ship/command and control ship/whatever with a roll on/roll off multipurpose deck.

 

[Underway]

Honestly it never thought that ship was a good fit for anyone but the Danes. There is a reason no one else has bought the same ship with the same sort of loadout.

That being said the "flex deck" concept has been used by many other nations, it just hadn't been as formalized.

 

[calculus]

Interesting article on the pros and cons of COTS versus bespoke procurements, in a Canadian context:

If Only Warships Grew on Trees - Canadian Global Affairs Institute

 

[GK .Dundas]

Honestly it never thought that ship was a good fit for anyone but the Danes. There is a reason no one else has bought the same ship with the same sort of loadout.

That being said the "flex deck" concept has been used by many other nations, it just hadn't been as formalized.

Actually the Absolon as a concept is a descendant of the the American APD . It's one of those thing you would only build if you either had no other amphibious capability . Or if you had so much that you afford them as a.sort of luxury.

 

[Maxman1]

They almost seem like miniature versions of the San Antonio and Albion class LPDs.

Mistral class amphibious assault ships would far better suit our needs, and seem to provide the same or more capability as the Albion and San Antonio classes.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Shipbuilding strategy hard at work--a tweet:

Canadian Coast Guard

@CoastGuardCAN

#CCGProud to announce the arrival of our newly-purchased light icebreaker from New Brunswick-based Atlantic Towing Limited

The vessel travelled almost 6,000 nautical miles from Turkmenistan (Central Asia) to our Sorel, Quebec base.

 

[Spencer100]

THIS. IS. INSANE:



Mark

Irving.

 

[Dana381]

THIS. IS. INSANE:



Mark

Not surprising, with many other indutries jacking up prices why wouldn't Inving do the same? GOC will end up cancelling hulls and everyone will lose in the end.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Meanwhile back in the US, They have a ice capable (not sure of it' class?) tanker on call.

Crowley Awarded Military Sealift Command Charter for Ice-Class Tanker

Crowley has been awarded a charter contract from Military Sealift Command to operate the Stena Polaris, an ice-class tanker serving bulk fuel transportation needs of the U.S. Department of Defense....

gcaptain.com

 

[MarkOttawa]

Canadian shipping line Fednavy in 2018 ordered Polar Class 4 icebreaking bulk carrier MV Arkvik from Japan,
delivered April 2021--loonies to Timbits it cost a hell of a lot less than $750 million

Fednav welcomes MV ARVIK I—its newest icebreaking bulk carrier | Fednav

www.fednav.com

Nunavik (ship) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Dale Denton]

They almost seem like miniature versions of the San Antonio and Albion class LPDs.

Mistral class amphibious assault ships would far better suit our needs, and seem to provide the same or more capability as the Albion and San Antonio classes.

We've all said that Mistral is a pipe dream but it really is worth keeping in mind for when the RCN is in a better shape to crew them. Imagine if we parked it off Vancouver when it was effectively cut off from Canada. What a win would it be to have had a floating mobile powerplant and a hospital with surgical suite parked off a Canadian city/town for HADR. All things that we will undoubtedly need off a Canadian shore again in the next 10 years. Coupled with a few Federal Fleet RO-RO ships we could do some good with these on the cheap.

Not to mention its ability to transport the CAF and make it a more viable global partner. Build it in France for cheap and Canadianize the hell out of it in a Canadian yard. They made an ice-strengthened version even. Could train in the arctic, with NATO, France, even build an Amphibious Task Group with time.

 

[NavyShooter]

There was a time just before Y2K hit that the RCN had a plan in the works to send a HFX Class ship to each major coastal city that we could reach - with some spare power cabling and the ability to tie into the local grid for emergency power generation. I'm not sure how far along that plan got, but each ship has 4x 850Kw Generators, and alongside can run off less than 1, and needs about 2 while at sea - so there's lots of 'spare' power available, assuming the generators are functional.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We've all said that Mistral is a pipe dream but it really is worth keeping in mind for when the RCN is in a better shape to crew them. Imagine if we parked it off Vancouver when it was effectively cut off from Canada. What a win would it be to have had a floating mobile powerplant and a hospital with surgical suite parked off a Canadian city/town for HADR. All things that we will undoubtedly need off a Canadian shore again in the next 10 years. Coupled with a few Federal Fleet RO-RO ships we could do some good with these on the cheap.

Not to mention its ability to transport the CAF and make it a more viable global partner. Build it in France for cheap and Canadianize the hell out of it in a Canadian yard. They made an ice-strengthened version even. Could train in the arctic, with NATO, France, even build an Amphibious Task Group with time.

We came very close to getting the two built for Russia

 

[MarkOttawa]

Now this. INSANE TOO:

Canada could face trouble buying specialized steel for new $7-billion icebreakers​

The coast guard hopes to see the first icebreaker delivered in 2030 and the second in 2031.

There was a time just before Y2K hit that the RCN had a plan in the works to send a HFX Class ship to each major coastal city that we could reach - with some spare power cabling and the ability to tie into the local grid for emergency power generation. I'm not sure how far along that plan got, but each ship has 4x 850Kw Generators, and alongside can run off less than 1, and needs about 2 while at sea - so there's lots of 'spare' power available, assuming the generators are functional.

During the Great Ice Storm of 1998 the Canadian Coast Guard offered to send its biggest icebreaker, CCGS Louis S. St-Laurent to power a Quebec city on the St. Lawrence, can't remember which one; not needed in the end. The Louis was then only some 30 years old, now in vessel life extension with Davie with hope to keep her going until 2030--sixty years old!--when first new polar icebreaker from one of Davie or Seaspan is supposed to be ready, sure.

Canada's 56-Year-Old Heavy Icebreaker Goes for Another Life Extension

Canadas largest icebreaker,Louis S. St-Laurent, is set to undergo major repair, refit and maintenanc...

maritime-executive.com

By the way a story today (no link, sorry, rules) indicates those two new breakers may end up costing over even $3.5 billion each. INSANE. Three similar new ships for USCG, to be delivered long before 2030, to cost around $1.1 billion each:

Report to Congress on Coast Guard Polar Security Cutter - USNI News

The following is the Feb. 28, 2021, Congressional Research Service report, Coast Guard Polar Security Cutter (Polar Icebreaker) Program: Background and Issues for Congress. From the report The Coast Guard Polar Security Cutter (PSC) program is a program to acquire three new PSCs (i.e., heavy...

news.usni.org

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Navy_Pete]

Now this. INSANE TOO:

Canada could face trouble buying specialized steel for new $7-billion icebreakers​

The coast guard hopes to see the first icebreaker delivered in 2030 and the second in 2031.

During the Great Ice Storm of 1998 the Canadian Coast Guard offered to send its biggest icebreaker, CCGS Louis S. St-Laurent to power a Quebec city on the St. Lawrence, can't remember which one; not needed in the end. The Louis was then only some 30 years old, now in vessel life extension with Davie with hope to keep her going until 2030--sixty years old!--when first new polar icebreaker from one of Davie or Seaspan is supposed to be ready, sure.

Canada's 56-Year-Old Heavy Icebreaker Goes for Another Life Extension

Canadas largest icebreaker,Louis S. St-Laurent, is set to undergo major repair, refit and maintenanc...

maritime-executive.com

By the way a story today (no link, sorry, rules) indicates those two new breakers may end up costing over even $3.5 billion each. INSANE. Three similar new ships for USCG, to be delivered long before 2030, to cost around $1.1 billion each:

Report to Congress on Coast Guard Polar Security Cutter - USNI News

The following is the Feb. 28, 2021, Congressional Research Service report, Coast Guard Polar Security Cutter (Polar Icebreaker) Program: Background and Issues for Congress. From the report The Coast Guard Polar Security Cutter (PSC) program is a program to acquire three new PSCs (i.e., heavy...

news.usni.org

Mark
Ottawa

Stelco in Hamilton was the last Canadian producer that was capable of producing the specialty grade of steel plate that I know of domestically; they shut down for a while and have re-opened with some limited capability but are focusing on sheet steel for cars etc.

Kind of crazy to me that we have a lot of raw materials, but the processing is done in different countries to make it useful.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Stelco in Hamilton was the last Canadian producer that was capable of producing the specialty grade of steel plate that I know of domestically; they shut down for a while and have re-opened with some limited capability but are focusing on sheet steel for cars etc.

Kind of crazy to me that we have a lot of raw materials, but the processing is done in different countries to make it useful.

To quote former Finance Minister Michael Wilson, 'Canada is a country of hewers of wood and drawers of water'. Not much was really change since he said that.

 

[Spencer100]

Stelco in Hamilton was the last Canadian producer that was capable of producing the specialty grade of steel plate that I know of domestically; they shut down for a while and have re-opened with some limited capability but are focusing on sheet steel for cars etc.

Kind of crazy to me that we have a lot of raw materials, but the processing is done in different countries to make it useful.

Unions and Regulations plus energy costs (this one is newer but government policy to raise the price of energy)