New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[jollyjacktar]

...unless you're primarily interested in what's happening on the surface and in the air.

That's what satellites are for.

 

[Monsoon]

That's what satellites are for.

Not at the poles - coverage by satellite is spotty at best. A friend of mine is involved in staffing a Treasury Board submission for the Space Agency for a project to put two satellites in polar orbits, which will allow each one to pass over twice a day to provide non-real-time radar imagery. I can promise you that the AOPS looks like a real bar-gooooon by comparison.

 

[cupper]

That's what satellites are for.

And for some strange reason, they can't project sovereignty.

But they will give you really nice pictures of the US and Russian vessels challenging it. ;D

Gotta love the potential for global warming.  :nod:

 

[Edward Campbell]

Not at the poles - coverage by satellite is spotty at best. A friend of mine is involved in staffing a Treasury Board submission for the Space Agency for a project to put two satellites in polar orbits, which will allow each one to pass over twice a day to provide non-real-time radar imagery. I can promise you that the AOPS looks like a real bar-gooooon by comparison.

Agreed, if you want 24/7 real time or even very near real time (say, no 'spot' unseen for more than 15 minutes) then you need a constellation of satellites in non-geostationary orbit.*  The number of satellites that might be required is somewhere between about 10 and 50 ~ the costs are similar, almost certainly higher numbers, in billions of dollars. Your friendly, neighbourhood space services sales-rep - and there are several in capitals like Ottawa and Canberra - will tell you how it all works.

It, a (partially) space based surveillance and warning system ought to be part of Canada's national security plan, but a quick look at the Canada First Defence Strategy will tell you that there is no money for any such thing for another quarter century or more.


----------
* Geostationary orbit is that which is 35,000+/- km above the earth and in which a satellite appears to be stationary above a point on the ground because it's orbital speed is the same as the speed at which the earth rotates. Simple geometry demonstrates satellites in geostationary cannot "see" the polar regions.

Non-geostationary orbit refers to all the other satellites - in low earth orbit, highly elliptical orbit, etc.

 

[GAP]

Ottawa can take over defaulting shipyards, $33-billion deal states
steven chase  Globe and Mail Thursday, Oct. 20, 2011
Article Link

The Canadian government will have the right to take over Halifax or Vancouver shipyards to complete vessels if a builder defaults on contractual obligations, according to the draft umbrella agreement that will govern a massive $33-billion in marine construction.

This provision is rarely included in procurement deals, federal officials say, and is an effort to keep a tight rein on decades of public shipbuilding that Ottawa set in motion on Wednesday.

While the deal must be finalized, federal officials say that yards consented to the draft’s language when they filed their bids. Builders submitted bid certificates that committed them to the wording and agreed the language would change only with mutual consent, Ottawa says.

Federal officials insist Ottawa will not remove the “step-in” rights from the deal. Section 5.2 of Part 3 of the umbrella agreement obliges the builders to hand over a “deed of license” to the federal government that spells out these rights.

The deed would allow Ottawa, after a default on material obligations, “to use, occupy, enjoy and possess those lands and any and all chattels of the company necessary or useful in the construction of ships.”

This week’s big shipbuilding awards for Halifax and Vancouver constituted a political victory for Stephen Harper; it enabled Ottawa to pick winners for massive procurement contracts without triggering serious charges of regional favouritism. That’s because the Conservative government left the decision to a cadre of civil servants who firewalled their decision-making from political interference.

But whether the National Shipbuilding Strategy is a procurement success remains to be seen because Ottawa must still negotiate contracts for up to 31 vessels and find a way to avoid the twin demons of big-ticket government purchases: missed deadlines and cost overruns.

Negotiations on the umbrella agreement for the combat and non-combat construction packages will start soon, and Ottawa hopes to have them completed by year’s end. Irving’s Halifax yard has won the right to build $25-billion worth of combat ships, and Seaspan Marine’s Vancouver yard has secured $8-billion worth of work for non-combat vessels.

Both companies will also have to grant Ottawa unhindered access to all of their books and records of account, so government officials can ensure yards aren’t charging exorbitant rates or making excessive profit. This provision is often included in contracts that are sole-sourced without competition.
More on link

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Is there a government website (or link) which lays out the details of the program in more detail than the news releases (.pdf)?


Thanks in advance, M. 

 

[Haletown]

Is there a government website (or link) which lays out the details of the program in more detail than the news releases (.pdf)?


Thanks in advance, M. 

start here

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/sam-mps/snacn-nsps-eng.html

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's going to be awhile before any steel gets cut, I suspect both yards will need to invest in some major equipment upgrades, hopefully they both have done some forward planning. I can see the whining coming from the people that just bough expensive condo's at the old Burrard drydocks site when the work gets underway in earnest.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's going to be awhile before any steel gets cut, I suspect both yards will need to invest in some major equipment upgrades, hopefully they both have done some forward planning. I can see the whining coming from the people that just bough expensive condo's at the old Burrard drydocks site when the work gets underway in earnest.

Don't buy a house next to a hog farm and expect no smell or flies ;D

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Keep in mind two things here:
1. Contrary to 'wording' in news reports, NO CONTRACTS have been signed; and
2. Both major Yards waited the 'respectable' 24 hours before submitting legal papers redressing some 'potential' aspects of 'potential' contract points.
Steel is to be cut for AOPS in 2013....time will tell.....

 

[RC]

Its funny, the Americans aren't interested in breaking ice anymore. They have one ice breaker left, in an extended refit (Polar Star) -Polar Sea is to be decomissioned. They have Ice Capable ships, but it doesn't look like they want to break ice anymore.

I was at a recent lecture by USCG procurement director who said that they plan to follow the Canadian heavy ice breaker program closely and possibly to buy the design.  He said their intention was to build two for a cost of roughly 1bn each.

 

[RC]

Steel is to be cut for AOPS in 2013....time will tell.....

Really?  Still over a year?  The design is already done and could be class approved by Christmas, steel cutting in early january.  They really need a year before starting for contract negotiations and upgrades?

I was under the impression that Seaspan would be starting the oosv in early spring 2012.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Really?  Still over a year?  The design is already done and could be class approved by Christmas, steel cutting in early january.  They really need a year before starting for contract negotiations and upgrades?

I was under the impression that Seaspan would be starting the oosv in early spring 2012.

I could be wrong

 

[jollyjacktar]

I could be wrong

Don't think you are.

 

[cupper]

Most of the news reports I've read say 2013 before steel starts getting cut.

 

[mad dog 2020]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vREFipmBqNA

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some word coming from the PM tomorrow (with him logging big Air Miles in between coast-to-coast announcements)?

.... Public events for Prime Minister Stephen Harper for Thursday, January 12th are:

Halifax, Nova Scotia

9:00 a.m. – Prime Minister Stephen Harper will participate in a photo opportunity.

Irving Shipbuilding Port
3099 Barrington Street
Halifax, NS

*Photo opportunity only (cameras and photographers only)

NOTES:

    Media are required to present proper identification for accreditation.
    Media should arrive at the North Gate of Halifax Shipyard, accessed off North Marginal Road.
    Media should arrive no later than 8:30 a.m.

Halifax, Nova Scotia

9:15 a.m. – Prime Minister Stephen Harper will make an announcement.

Irving Shipbuilding Port
3099 Barrington Street
Halifax, NS

*Open to media

NOTES:

    Media are required to present proper identification for accreditation.
    Media should arrive at the North Gate of Halifax Shipyard, accessed off North Marginal Road.
    Media should arrive no later than 8:30 a.m.

North Vancouver, British Columbia

3:15 p.m. – Prime Minister Stephen Harper will participate in a photo opportunity.

Seaspan Vancouver Shipyards Co. Ltd.
50 Pemberton Avenue
North Vancouver, BC V7P 2R1

*Photo opportunity only (cameras and photographers only)

NOTES:

    Media are required to present proper identification for accreditation.
    Media should arrive no later than 2:30 p.m.

North Vancouver, British Columbia

3:30 p.m. – Prime Minister Stephen Harper will make an announcement.

Seaspan Vancouver Shipyards Co. Ltd.
50 Pemberton Avenue
North Vancouver, BC V7P 2R1

*Open to media

NOTES:

    Media are required to present proper identification for accreditation.
    Media should arrive no later than 2:30 p.m ....

 

[Richard.Donafeld]

Im excited ;D the first keel will be getting laid 2013 and they will be building the icebreakers first, similar size to the CPF's. Once those are complete they will begin on the tankers that are so desperately needed.

 

[RangerRay]

I'm sure Premier Clark will be there claiming credit for the Vancouver contract...  :

http://alexgtsakumis.com/2011/10/21/christy-clarks-claim-that-she-delivered-the-8-billion-seaspan-celebration-a-tempest-in-a-d-cup/

Christy Clark’s Claim that She Delivered the $8 Billion Seaspan Celebration: A Tempest In a D-Cup


It’s amazing isn’t it?

Yet another photo-op for an entirely unqualified Premier. Yet another example of Christy Clark taking credit for something she had NOTHING to do with.

Yes, she jumped aboard the Washington Marine Group’s wagon, albeit late–for a previous photo-op, heralding the kind of shipbuilding magnificence they are capable of (she has a keen grasp of the obvious). But was it her efforts that sealed the deal?

Let’s have a look.

Seaspan is a solid company with very good credentials and great employees. Think what you want of Kyle Washington and his billionaire upbringing. He could have spent the rest of his life sitting in Gstaad or Aspen in the winters and on his own island in the South Pacific the rest of the year.

But he didn’t. Instead, he’s taken his father’s immense generosity and turned it into an equally immense success story. The Premier, far from having anything to do with Seaspan’s success, was last to sign on. In fact, during previous provincial shipbuilding tenders, when Ms. Clark was still Deputy Premier, she opted to support sending our business to Germany rather than here with Mr. Washington’s crew. She even went so far as to misrepresent his contracts as “cost-plus” (which he expertly explained to the media, in response).

Now, Ms. Clark would like us to believe, at least this is what she’s telling anyone who will listen, how it was she that delivered $8 billion dollars in shipbuilding contracts and it was her intervention that sealed the deal.

Well, it most certainly was not.

In addition to the fact that she is HATED in Ottawa with a white-hot passion, the nuts and bolts, the mechanics of the deal, the process, tell the story all too well.

The port in Levis, Quebec, one of three considered, might as well be in receivership and was not suited to do this deal. Their infrastructure is dated and unworthy. They would have had issues delivering either of the $25 billion or $8 billion package. The Irving port in Nova Scotia was the obvious choice for the larger more complicated battleships so they were a lock for the bigger deal. Seaspan had never approached doing anything of the sort before and it required a greater expertise than they could provide–at this point.

It follows to reason, then, that if not by Mr. Washington’s savvy in surrounding himself with capable corporate developers (he has an uncanny ability at picking perfect executives for his companies) perhaps by process of elimination, the smaller contract would come here. There were no other options.

An interesting footnote, is that Ms. Clark’s brother Bruce and his very close friend Patrick Kinsella were somehow allegedly involved in this transaction as lobbyists.

I don’t know about Pat–as I suspect his footsie with the Liberals and close relationship with Ms. Clark preclude any real ties to the Harper government, but you can bank that Bruce Clark, a long-time, smash-mouth federal Liberal, with a perpetual hate-on for anything Conservative, had nothing to do with this contract landing at Seaspan’s door. This, notwithstanding his previous relationship as a lobbyist for Washington Marine (the parent company of Seaspan), during the sale of BC Rail. He’s despised by Conservatives, he would do nothing but hurt efforts to secure anything for anyone that would be forthcoming from Ottawa. Besides, the process was strictly non-political–a huge accomplishment for the Tories.

Remarkably, none of the Clark siblings or Pat Kinsella had anything to do with this, because as BC Conservative leader John Cummins quite astutely put it, “Seaspan won this on their own.”

And I heartily agree. My own contacts in the federal bureaucracy confirmed the contracts two days in advance, but I was sworn to secrecy. The only people I revealed anything to were two trusted friends: A senior local reporter with a major news venue that asked for my opinion and a reporter with another major station, who has been badgering me (just kidding pal!) for the information. “Everyone gets something,” I wrote. “The smaller package likely to Washington with the larger definitely to Nova Scotia–as it should be.”

Premier Clark’s straddling the Helijet straight to Seaspan’s offices to high-five workers, post-announcement–with cameras in tow, wasn’t simply another shameless photo-op of her dwindling hold on the office she has forever craved. It wasn’t another inappropriately attired opportunity to sell only herself, instead of her government. Team solidarity be damned–AGAIN.

It was Christy Clark, once more, demonstrating that she will stop at absolutely nothing to lie her way though the public consciousness; that she’s the doer of deeds rather than the sower of dissent. After a week of being pummeled by respected members of her caucus (and mercilessly hammered by a progressively awakening media), she needed a break, but for the fact that she knows, in places she’ll never reveal, that she is a monstrous failure as leader of this province and incapable of bringing home anything substantive.

Far from being an opportunity to celebrate a major accomplishment which the Premier herself initiated or delivered, it was yet another tempest in a D-Cup.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper today announced that the Government of Canada and Irving Shipbuilding Inc. have successfully reached an agreement in principle that paves the way for the construction of Canada’s combat fleet under the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy (NSPS).

“We are moving quickly to put in place the contracts required to build the ships that our country needs to defend its waters and do its share on the international stage,” said Prime Minister Harper.  “The agreement in principle reached today with Irving Shipbuilding Inc. is a milestone of our Government’s National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy – a strategy that will mean jobs and economic growth for the country, stability for the industry, and vital equipment for our men and women in uniform.”

The National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy – the largest procurement sourcing arrangement in Canadian history – is expected to create thousands of high-value jobs in shipbuilding and related industries across the country.  The Strategy is about undertaking major ship procurements in a smarter, more effective way – a way that sustains Canadian jobs, strengthens the marine sector and provides the best value for Canadian taxpayers.

For more information on the NSPS, please visit http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/sam-mps/snacn-nsps-eng.html

PMO news release, 12 Jan 12