New Canada-Croatia military partnership

[The Bread Guy]

Good post George.  wrong way to go about defending croatia's good name.

Some might even say he protests too much.

 

[medicineman]

I can't say I'm upset he's gone...and I do hope he sends some mail to the MND as well as the Croatian ambassador.  Free speech works in both directions .

MM

 

[George Wallace]

Some might even say he protests too much.

Moi?  Never.    ;D

I can't say I'm upset he's gone...and I do hope he sends some mail to the MND as well as the Croatian ambassador.  Free speech works in both directions .

MM

I am wondering if Mr zz will include links to this thread in what he threatens to send to the Honourable Peter McKay and what he sends is uncensored as to show the fallacies of his logic unedited.

 

[medicineman]

I'm sure he'll conveniently leave out his stuff if he PDF'd it...

MM

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've noticed on a few other forums in passing that Croats and Serbs and Bosnain Muslims (proper word?) make an act of playing nice together but the minute someone mentions that one side did something naughty it's like lighting a match inside a gas tank.  It's always pretty much the same argument between them. And lots of them are from young kids. STILL a lot of hatred there and the new generation is getting it taught by the old one.

 

[George Wallace]

Let's remember, the "old" generation are not really that "old" and likely the ones who are now in strategic political and military positions in Croatia; just as they are in Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.  These hatreds and ways of thinking take generations to change.  Education often is the key to changing such attitides.

 

[Good2Golf]

Moi?  Never.    ;D

I am wondering if Mr zz will include links to this thread in what he threatens to send to the Honourable Peter McKay and what he sends is uncensored as to show the fallacies of his logic unedited.

Just guessing, but I would not be surprised if Army.ca was bookmarked by some members of the Minister's staff.  :nod:

 

[Scott]

Quick, tell idiot boy, don't want him wasting paper when he prints that PDF. Save some trees, man.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Just guessing, but I would not be surprised if Army.ca was already bookmarked by some members of the Minister's staff.  :nod:

FTFY  ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

How about everyone just forget about our interloper, move back to the original topic and quit dragging the thread off course.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[OldSolduer]

This is all about the $ for Canadian companies.

I wrote some time ago to the PM's office when Chretien was PM and asked what was being done to bring the perpetrators of the Medak Pocket to justice.
It appears nothing was being done. The president (Tudjman) is dead and so is the "general" who planned it.

Some "army" that had to murder old people, kids and animals . Scum.

Of course we were accused of fabricating it.....by Croatia.

 

[noneck]

Myself and a few of the other guys from Charlie Coy are going back next year to Medak. We plan on doing a bit of a gumball rally around Sector West and then heading down to Sector South. Hit up Opatija and Lake Balaton for S&G's. Maybe even cross over to Ortona for a walk around.

I know that on some of the SFOR tours guys went back and checked out the area. Is it repopulated or still a dead zone where we would have to find lodging in Plitvice Park or on the coast? If anybody on the site has been back any advice or points of interest would be great.

Cheers
Noneck not Redneck

 

[Infanteer]

Twenty years can change an army, as we have seen ourselves

1945 - just finished a 6 years slugging match with the Germans.

1965 - our Brigade is in a formation with German units ready to fight and die on German soil.

How things change.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I read some comments earlier that some WW2 vets, my Dad included had lost their hatred of the Germans they faced and would be able to sit down with them.  But, I could never see myself being all friendly or forgiving towards the Taliban.  At least I don't expect that I have enough years left in me to let the fires die down any. 

I was fortunate enough to avoid Yugo so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I can understand the outrage the Yugo vets must be feeling.  I would feel the same if we got all warm and fuzzy with the Taliban.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

jollyjactar,
I'm semi quoting my Father here [wish I paid more attention while I had the chance] but he stayed in Germany a year after the war and always said the hatred was lost on the German soldier but when it came to former members of the SS.......

Our next door neighbour for more than 40 years was an ex- German officer who thanked God everyday he was captured by the Americans and not the Russians.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I read some comments earlier that some WW2 vets, my Dad included had lost their hatred of the Germans they faced and would be able to sit down with them.  But, I could never see myself being all friendly or forgiving towards the Taliban.  At least I don't expect that I have enough years left in me to let the fires die down any. 

I was fortunate enough to avoid Yugo so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I can understand the outrage the Yugo vets must be feeling.  I would feel the same if we got all warm and fuzzy with the Taliban.

Yes, see this article from the CBC. Ortona saw some of the most brutal fighting in the annals of war ~ these men looked past their fear and hatred and met again as men, not enemies.

And yes, indeed, we, Canadians, did stand shoulder to shoulder with German allies against the Warsaw Pact: we trained together, drank beer together, visited one another in our messes and homes, became friends ... despite what had happened just 20 or 25 years before.

In other threads, here on Army.ca, we bemoan the fact that immigrants bring their "old country" conflicts and hatreds here to Canada with them and then teach them to their children ~ some of us are in danger of doing the same thing.

 

[jollyjacktar]

My Dad was a D Day dodger and saw extensive action in Italy.  He said most of the time when they identified the opposite force it was usually the 1. Fallschirmjägerdivision.  He had the highest regard for them as professional crack troops and felt they were some of the best troops in the world.  He never mentioned the SS, guess they didn't rate in the standings. 

Having been brought up on his tales of the German soldiers as he knew them, it was somewhat of a shock to see the youngsters in Shilo circa 1980.  Not the same class... nice guys though.

 

[Old Sweat]

Your grandfather probably did not encounter any Waffen SS formations in Italy, as they were employed largely in NWE and on the Eastern Front. Contrary to their popular image, SS formations were mistrusted by senior Germany army officers as they tended to be lacking in tactical skills and all arms coordination, as opposed to strict adherence to ideology. The latter led to too many frontals and gut feel reaction immediate counter-attacks, and lack of attention to the rules such as the Geneva Convention.

The German paratroops, on the other hand, were generally respected - Lockie Fulton, who commanded the Royal Winnipeg Rifles from the Leopold Canal to VE Day, told me they were the best soldiers he had ever met - , and even the average German formation was rarely a pushover. The German army also tended to observe the rules. I read in the last couple of days an account by a member of 6 Airborne Division who was badly wounded and lying in the open. A German medic ran out and tended to his wounds. When shells began to fall, the German protectd the British soldier with his own body and then stayed with him until other British soldiers arrived. The wounded man acknowledged that he owed his life to an unnamed German medic.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... the hatred was lost on the German soldier but when it came to former members of the SS.......

Well said - that's probably a close similarity to Croatia, with this being the biggest difference ....

.... The German army also tended to observe the rules ....

 

[jollyjacktar]

Your grandfather probably did not encounter any Waffen SS formations in Italy,

He sure didn't.  He fought with the LdSH in France in WW1.  ;D

My Dad though, I can't say as he's been gone since 85.  He never mentioned them, he did see service in France, Holland and Germany after Italy.  He never mentioned them, he commented on the Yanks, the Dutch Resistance etc etc but never the SS.  I'm sure he must have come across some of them somewheres.  Even as POW's.  Dad did not like to talk about the war too much despite my pestering him as a kid unless it was a funny story.  He once gave me a copy of "And no birds sang" by Farley Mowat, said "that's what Italy was like.  Now shut up and stop asking me"