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need to maintain weight and build strength

northern girl said:
Ok - sorry if this is redundant - I've looked through some posts about nutrition, but have some specific questions. Here's the deal. I'm small to begin with - 5'3"...in the past month or so I've lost 10 pounds, and am now sitting just under 120...I'm hitting the gym 4-6 times/week, strength training and cardio each time...at first (until about 2 weeks ago) I was really noticing a gain in strength...but the weight keeps falling off and I"m feeling weak after workouts...so, on the advice of someone I trust ( my brother, a hard-core gym fanatic) I got some protein supplement, some glutemine powder and a multivitamin with antioxidants that helps the body digest all the protein. Am I on the right track? How long should it take to notice a difference? I've been told that I need to get my conditioning up as much as possible for Basic, because there's not a lot of opportunity there to build on what you've accomplished before heading to St. Jean, and the more I can do to prepare for CAP NOW the better...Am I right to increase the protein and take the glutemine to rebuild muscles? Will this really enhance my strength? I eat a really healthy diet, but know I need to add something to it to get to the next level. Also, I've looked through numerous websites that give suggestions about how many calories I should be taking in in a day - they all give different info, and to be honest, the majority suggest only 1200 to 1500 cals/day - which leaves me starving. I know the whole "weight" thing isn't the biggest issue here - it's all about strength and endurance - but I don't WANT to lose any more weight. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

I highly suggest you consider Kratos' comments in this thread:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91463.0

I think Smode's advice might be geared towards bodybuilding, which - in my opinion - is not optimized for military fitness.  Bigger muscles does not necessarily mean bigger strength, and Kratos' thread linked above explains why.

P90X - in my opinion - is not particularly good for military fitness either.  You might build endurance, but you won't gain strength without increasing resistance.  P90X is about looking good at the beach, which does not necessarily transfer to what you need in the military.

If your goal is to build strength and gain (or at least not lose) weight, first take a look at what Kratos has to say, and then immerse yourself in the following material:
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki
 
Alright. I haven't read any of the other posts in this thread and I must say, once again, I have no certifications of anything like that. All I have is the fact that strength training/powerlifting and learning about it is my passion.

I will look at the title of the thread: "How can maintain my weight, but still gain strength?" I realise cardio, muscular endurance, etc are important for military life, but that is not the question being asked.

Gaining and losing weight is a matter of calories in vs. calories out. Caloric excess = weight gain. Caloric deficit = weight loss. Numbers that have been thrown at me before (they might not take into consideration a very active lifestyle. Base numbers, maybe, I guess.) are: 16 calories per/lb. for maintenance, 17+ cal/lb. for weight gain.

As I mentioned before, it is possible to get stronger while maintaining and even losing weight, via CNS adaption.

You get stronger via improved CNS (central nervous system) function, or neural adaption. I'll use a bicep curl as an example, because it is the easiest. (I don't like curls) When an untrained person does a curl, their CNS is only recruiting, say 20% (made up number) of their muscle fibers to lift the weight. Well, as that person continues training and continues to progressively use more weight, their CNS adapts and is able to recruit more of the fibers to do the work. (The principal of progressive overload, where you continually place more stress on your body via reps or intensity, forcing your body to adapt) So, say, after 5 weeks of training, the person's CNS has adapted and is now recruiting 40% of their bicep to do the curl, allowing them to use the heavier weight they now find themselves using. That a REALLY basic and REALLY unscientific explanation, but here's something a little more in depth:

The CNS: Cliffs Notes Version

When a motor neuron fires, all the fibers it serves are simultaneously activated and develop force. A motor neuron and all the muscle fibers it innervates are referred to as a motor unit, the basic functional entity of muscular activity.

Motor units can span a range of muscle fiber sizes (Type I and Type IIa/b), which also allow different force productions. Motor units are recruited in the order of their size, from smallest (Type I) to largest (Type Iib) depending on the force they must produce.

For example, when you do light load resistance training, you're recruiting predominantly Type I (slow twitch) motor units. When the load is increased, the Type Iia (fast twitch oxidative and glycolytic fibers) will be recruited with the help of the Type I fibers. When high intensity loads are utilized (90%+), the Type IIb muscle fibers (along with Type I and Type IIa) are recruited in order to produce enough force to complete the lift.

Very simply put, getting stronger is really about making the CNS more efficient at stimulating high(er) threshold motor units, maximizing the number of motor units activated, and improving the discharge frequency of those motor units. Typically, to get to a high-threshold motor unit, all the motor units below it are sequentially recruited.

Thus, with heavy resistance training, all the muscle fibers get bigger, because they're all recruited to produce more and more force with heavier weights. (This is assuming, of course, that you're getting sufficient volume in your training.)

In short, like Ron Burgundy, the CNS is kind of a big deal. As a matter of fact, during the early phases (two to eight weeks) of resistance training, a trainee's strength gains can be solely attributed to improved CNS development (not muscle growth). This is due to:

1) Increased inhibition of antagonistic muscle
2) Improved co-contraction and increased activation of synergistic muscles
3) Inhibition of neural protective mechanisms (Golgi tendon body, muscle spindle complex)
4) Increased motor neuron excitability

There is kind of a limit, though, and eventually, if your goal is to keep getting stronger and stronger, you would most likely have to look at gaining weight. For the average person not looking to compete in strength sports, though, that doesn't matter. (You don't need to get THAT strong, so gaining weight solely in an attempt to get stronger is pointless. Unless, of course, that is a personal goal.)

This picture shows the difference between sarcoplasmic and myfibrillar hypertrophy:

image018.gif


I will also post this chart again:

repetitioncontinuum.jpg


If you're looking to get stronger, start doing compound movements.

-Deadlifts
-Squats
-Overhead press
-Bench
-Rows
-Dips
-Chin/Pull ups.
-Etc.

Those will make you stronger. Things like curls and tricep kick backs do not make you "stronger". Your program should be based around lifts like those listed above, not isolation exercises. Curls should be an after thought. They're like mustard: If you want to put mustard on a sandwich, fine, but if you want to eat a bowl full of mustard, you're an idiot.

You could organise it something like this:

Monday:

Deadlifts
Bent over rows
Chin ups

Wednesday:

Bench
Strict overhead press
Dips

Friday:

Squats
Front squats
Hyper extensions

That's kind of a jumble of things thrown together. There's a lot of information out there if you wish to seek it.

Consistency is key. If you aren't going to be consistent, it's not going to work.

"Hitting the gym real hard" for two weeks will get you nowhere. It takes a long time. It takes a long time of being consistent.

Be patient. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

There's so, so much more, but that's a start.
 
northern girl said:
Ok - sorry if this is redundant - I've looked through some posts about nutrition, but have some specific questions. Here's the deal. I'm small to begin with - 5'3"...in the past month or so I've lost 10 pounds, and am now sitting just under 120...I'm hitting the gym 4-6 times/week, strength training and cardio each time...If strength is your priority, train for strength before doing cardioat first (until about 2 weeks ago) I was really noticing a gain in strength...but the weight keeps falling off and I"m feeling weak after workouts...so, on the advice of someone I trust ( my brother, a hard-core gym fanatic) I got some protein supplement, some glutemine powder and a multivitamin with antioxidants that helps the body digest all the protein Protein is fine, but just remember, it's only powdered food. It doesn't make miracles happen. It's also only a supplement, and should be used as such. The end product on discussion I've seen on glutamine is that it's useless for its advertised purposes. Multis are fine, but not for the reason you listed.. Am I on the right track? How long should it take to notice a difference? Depends on you. I've been told that I need to get my conditioning up as much as possible for Basic, because there's not a lot of opportunity there to build on what you've accomplished before heading to St. Jean, and the more I can do to prepare for CAP NOW the better...Am I right to increase the protein and take the glutemine to rebuild muscles?See my above on protein/glutamine. Eating mass amounts of protein will do nothing. Will this really enhance my strength?No, it will not. Protein powder is powdered food, to be used on top of a good diet. I eat a really healthy diet, but know I need to add something to it to get to the next level. If you're losing weight really fast when you don't want to, that magic additive would be more food. Also, I've looked through numerous websites that give suggestions about how many calories I should be taking in in a day - they all give different info, and to be honest, the majority suggest only 1200 to 1500 cals/day - which leaves me starving. I know the whole "weight" thing isn't the biggest issue here - it's all about strength and endurance - but I don't WANT to lose any more weight. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

...
 
gcclarke said:
Ahhh heck, why not, I'll throw my hat into the ring too.

If you're training hard in the gym, gaining strength, and still losing weight, yes the protein supplements will help. No, more calories will help. Try that for a week or so and if you're still losing weight, add more fat into your diet. Just more calories man, more calories. Protein is needed to build your muscles. But this isn't a "more is always better" thing. You need to be getting in "enough" protein to meet your needs. Any protein intake above and beyond that threshold does not help. Too much, and you're damage your kidney and liver. Plus it'll be a waste of money. As for how much is too much? Well, the one chart I found said that pretty much the max that an athlete on a weight gaining program will need is 1g / day / lb body weight. So, if you're currently 120 lbs, 120 g a day of protein is the maximum you'll ever need.

So, as for the rest, just as your weight loss, and your fatigue after hitting the gym, that's all due to the fact that you're not bringing in enough calories. Yes, those websites you were looking at may recommend 1200 - 1500 calories a day, but that recommendation is likely geared towards a woman trying to lose weight by doing light cardio. Not someone who is trying to gain weight and is doing heavy lifting. So eat more.

As for what to eat, well, since you already have the protein supplements, you might as well use them. But I always rec comend getting your fuel from natural sources. Chicken, Fish, Eggs, Beef and Pork for protein. Vegetables. Nuts. Olive Oil. Fruit. Whole Grains. Word. Get enough in you, and you should stop that phenomenon that KnightShift mentioned of your cardio "burning up" your muscles. If you have enough food intake, there is no reason for your body to cannibalize its muscle cells for fuel.
 
travodne20 said:
if you are losing weight and training like you say you are...your caloric intake is way too low 1000-1500 hardly would be able to keep a normal persons energy up. if you are training hard you will need to be at least in the 3000 range.

Good God, man.

3000 calories is A LOT.

Even if you went with 120x20 = 2400, you're still 600 off.

 
Smode said:
To help the first post:
Its hard to keep size while doing cardio without loosing muscle. People I use to train who had similar goals as yours , I would tell them this. To eat a lot of small but filling meals during the day , 10-12. Do not miss breakfast lunch or dinner ! I would suggest starting off with a 5 day workout plan, Monday to Friday and using the weekends as rest. Use each day to workout a different body part.

Example
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Shoulders
Thursday: back
friday: arms

Doing this will allow each muscle to get the proper rest needed to grow. Also throw in heavy cardio Monday - Wed - Friday. When I say cardio I don't mean a long distant slow jog. I'm speaking about hard cardio that will get your hearting pumping. On Monday try doing interval training, Run for 1min FAST and walk for 30 seconds. On Wednesday attempt to do a 25 minute run at a really fast pace. Friday you can do the bike or the stairmaster.

Anyway this is what I did personally and did for past clients of mine and worked out great. Remember never push your body to far. Hope this helps

Sorry, but that's a terrible training routine. Akin to the routines you'd find in a bodybuilding magazine, or see Joe Blow weakling-never-progressing doing in the gym.

I feel bad you train other people that way.
 
northern girl said:
A question raised by smodes response: I set up a plan for weights with a personal trainer at the gym and she suggested doing two muscle groups a day ie. back and triceps, shoulders and legs, chest and biceps - I liked the idea of it because it lets me get in two workouts per week on each muscle group...is that really too much? I know I'll never be able to imitate the kind of days I'll have at St. Jean, but my thinking has been that  I need to condition my body to being exhausted and then recovering quickly to make sure I"ll be alright for training - and as I said earlier, I've been told that there's not a lot of time to work on increasing strength etc while at basic, and that I should be as ready for CAP as I can be before basic. where do you all come down on this idea of one workout/week on each muslce group? tanks again;)

99% of "personal trainers" make me want to vomit. They seem never want to make people WORK.

Don't think of breaking it up into muscle groups. think about MOVEMENTS.

How often do you pick things up off the ground? Deadlift.

How often do you lift things over your head? Over head presses.

See my first post:

Monday:

Deadlifts (Back, core, entire posterior chain)
Bent over rows (Back, arms)
Chin ups (Upper back, shoulders, arms)

Wednesday:

Bench (Chest, triceps, lats)
Strict overhead press (Shoulders, core, triceps)
Dips (Chest, shoulders, triceps)

Friday:

Squats (Legs, core, entire posterior chain)
Front squats (Legs, core, etc.)
Hyper extensions (Lower back)
 
Wonderbread said:
I think Smode's advice might be geared towards bodybuilding, which - in my opinion - is not optimized for military fitness.  Bigger muscles does not necessarily mean bigger strength, and Kratos' thread linked above explains why.

Immerse yourself in the following material:
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki

Exactly!

Thanks for the props, though.

Sidenote:

I applied, but I don't know if I'll get accepted to the ROTProgram due to burst fracturing 3 vert. in my t-spine and 3 in my c-spine in 2007. I guess I can only hope the medical guy wrote down good things. I get really frustrated thinking about it because now I can squat 400+, deadlift 430+ and put ~240 over my head (strongman jerks) and yet I can't help but think I'm going to get rejected due to past injuries.

Is my cardio good? Nope. Would I improve it? Of course. In my opinion, it's easier to improve cardio than it is to get bigger and stronger. It's easier to take a 220 pound insanely strong guy and get him to good place, cardio wise, than it is to take a 140 lb guy and get him to 200 lbs while maintaining/achieving good cardio.

Can I do pushups? Maybe 15-20 max. Would I improve that? Of course.

I realise the military requires a combination of everything, fitness wise, but I also believe you can train for strength and still have good cardio. You just have to find the balance. I don't believe that being at either extreme end of the spectrum is good.

The question of how to get strong was asked, so I tried to answer.

Hopefully it's of some help.

Sorry that, spanning through all the posts, it seems somewhat unorganised and rambling. Did I miss a multi-quote function?
 
Wonderbread said:

I try, man.

I'm no authority on the subject, but I try to help within my limits.

I was just going to edit something in another one of my posts, but I forget now. That's really annoying. Shoot.
 
  Hey Kratos.  Just finished looking through the posts here and you said you had burst fractures.  I've recently had an L1 Burst fracture in an MVA and would love to hear about your recovery.

  How long did you take to heal?  How much therapy did it take?  Are you 100% now?  I'm surprised you can lift as much as you can......considering I can't lift more than a jug of milk right now, lol.

Thanks man
COD
 
CallOfDuty said:
  Hey Kratos.  Just finished looking through the posts here and you said you had burst fractures.  I've recently had an L1 Burst fracture in an MVA and would love to hear about your recovery.

  How long did you take to heal?  How much therapy did it take?  Are you 100% now?  I'm surprised you can lift as much as you can......considering I can't lift more than a jug of milk right now, lol.

Thanks man
COD

None of mine were lumbar region, but here you go:

Accident was late July, 2007

I wore a waist to shoulder clam-shell back brace for five weeks (could have been up to eight, I think, but I got the OK after five) and spent a lot of the first month in bed, resting..

After I got the back brace off, stuff was obviously still stiff, sore and very weak.

I had to wear an Aspen neck collar for almost three months. That sucked. Getting it off was good and bad at the same time. Neck was super weak and would tire/get sore easily.

The worst part was it's the core structure of your body that hurts severely. Not a knee, wrist or ankle, where you can somewhat rub away the pain or put some heat/ice on it.

Anyway, did physio. Helped a bit, but after a while, not so much.

Didn't do any physical activity again until February, 2009, when I stumbled upon a forum geared towards powerlifting/strongman/strength training and decided it was time for me to do something. A state of physical weakness didn't really suit me and it certainly wasn't doing my body any favors.

So, I told the guys there my situation and received some information/suggestions.

So, besides a two month travel break, I've been lifting since. I was "lucky" with my back, because my lumbar region was spared, allowing me to squat and deadlift as if nothing had happened.

Honestly I would say I'm 110% haha. Much bigger and vastly stronger than pre accident.

You just have to take it slow man. It's your back. You want to make sure it heals well. Your lumbar region, especially, I'd imagine. Listen to your body. While I was recovering, any time I would get sore, I'd go lay down, no exceptions.

Good luck with your recovery.
 
  Hey man, thanks for your reply.  Your story gives me hope for a full recovery, however, as you said...the Lumbar vertebrae is not a good one to break.  The docs predict I'll get as good as 95%.
  Anyhow..just happy to be alive! ;D
Cheers
 
CallOfDuty said:
  Hey man, thanks for your reply.  Your story gives me hope for a full recovery, however, as you said...the Lumbar vertebrae is not a good one to break.  The docs predict I'll get as good as 95%.
  Anyhow..just happy to be alive! ;D
Cheers

No problem.

As cliche as it sounds, (in my opinion) don't let doctors give you numbers regarding recovery.
 
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