NDP Abandons Ship

[Halifax Tar]

Didn't speak to his character as a politician or a person, merely the reality of the world around him.

Trudeau the Elder left the economy in shambles, the Cold War was heating up again, the failed Meech Lake and Charlottetown Accords were political flops, NAFTA depending on who you talked to.... I can go on. Eventually, people soured to it.

Everyone has a plan until the first round impacts.

Governments have expiry dates. It happens to them all. Some just have a longer shelf life.

If PP:

1) Lowers taxes
2) Shrinks the PS
3) Rolls back firearm's legislation

I will consider his term as PM a success. I'm setting the bar low

 

[Remius]

Governments have expiry dates. It happens to them all. Some just have a longer shelf life.

If PP:

1) Lowers taxes

Depends on what taxes and the effect that will have.

2) Shrinks the PS

Assuming he does it right. Last time they effed it up.

3) Rolls back firearm's legislation

That should be an easy enough thing but may contribute to hime having one term. My guess is that it would only be done at the start of a second term.

I will consider his term as PM a success. I'm setting the bar low

At this point not sure how one cannot set a low bar for anything.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Depends on what taxes and the effect that will have.

I don't care, just cut taxes. And cut spending.

That should be an easy enough thing but may contribute to hime having one term. My guess is that it would only be done at the start of a second term.

I feel like, and I could be wrong, but I feel like the perceptions around firearms is changing.

At this point not sure how one cannot set a low bar for anything.

Fair. But hey, when you're at the bottom there is no where to go but up!

 

[Remius]

I don't care, just cut taxes. And cut spending.

That will be inevitable. Beyond the carbon tax though I’m not sure there is much else to cut tax wise. I suspect though we’ll see as per CPC MOs boutique tax credits which I am not a fan of.

I feel like, and I could be wrong, but I feel like the perceptions around firearms is changing.

Possible. But it gives the opposition the boogey man it needs. Don’t get me wrong, the current legislation is bad legislation and addresses nothing that they claim it addresses. Just pointing out the risk.

Fair. But hey, when you're at the bottom there is no where to go but up!

The LPC right now are proving that wrong right now lol

 

[IKnowNothing]

That will be inevitable. Beyond the carbon tax though I’m not sure there is much else to cut tax wise. I suspect though we’ll see as per CPC MOs boutique tax credits which I am not a fan of.

IMO cutting taxes prior to getting the budget in order AND properly funding the CAF would be incredibly irresponsible.

 

[Baz]

That will be inevitable. Beyond the carbon tax though I’m not sure there is much else to cut tax wise…

I’m not sure cutting the carbon tax will cause any impact federal finances except cutting the rebates and some climate related programs.

However, one of my frustrations with the implementation of the carbon tax is the difficulty in getting information on the actual cash flows.

 

[Grimey]

I know people like my 4 aunts on my fathers side (they worshipped Trudeau SR) were super excited when Justin was running. And they have since put forth the worst arguments and biggest excuse mongering to defend him since.

I THINK (not know) is they had a rosy perspective of everything Pierre Trudeau and were pining for the days of yore

My wife and I have a friend who’s a CPA and who has had senior positions in the BC public service. Shortly after JT was elected, we were out to dinner with her and she brings up that photo of JT and Sophie looking dreamily into each other’s eyes. She then spent the next ten minutes gushing about it. Despite her accomplishments, we both lost some respect for her in an instant. It played right into that theory of middle to late middle-aged women being one of the core reasons for JT’s success and who never got over their crush on his dad.

 

[OldSolduer]

I’m not sure cutting the carbon tax will cause any impact federal finances except cutting the rebates and some climate related programs.

However, one of my frustrations with the implementation of the carbon tax is the difficulty in getting information on the actual cash flows.

I don’t think there is any cash flows. All goes to General Revenues. Remember JT doesn’t think about the economy and budgets balance themselves

 

[daftandbarmy]

My wife and I have a friend who’s a CPA and who has had senior positions in the BC public service. Shortly after JT was elected, we were out to dinner with her and she brings up that photo of JT and Sophie looking dreamily into each other’s eyes. She then spent the next ten minutes gushing about it. Despite her accomplishments, we both lost some respect for her in an instant. It played right into that theory of middle to late middle-aged women being one of the core reasons for JT’s success and who never got over their crush on his dad.

Luckily, someone's written about that and it looks like he ticks all the boxes.

But they seem to have left one out: Trust Fund Millionaire

The Real Reason Women Are Going Gaga Over Justin Trudeau​

The Real Reason Women Are Going Gaga Over Justin Trudeau

The whole Trudeau wave that is washing over social media isn't just about his looks. It is about so much more. The real reason that women are going on and on about him is simple. He is the epitome of the ideal man. A modern, relatable, ideal man. He checks all the boxes of the attributes many...

www.huffpost.com

 

[Baz]

I don’t think there is any cash flows. All goes to General Revenues. Remember JT doesn’t think about the economy and budgets balance themselves

As I said, one of my biggest concerns with the implementation is the lack of transparency. The government documents say it does not go into general revenue. Example:

The Government of Canada does not keep any direct proceeds from pollution pricing. All direct proceeds from the federal system are returned to the province or territory of origin in the following way:
• For those jurisdictions that have voluntarily adopted the federal system, direct proceeds from the federal fuel charge and Output-based Pricing System are returned to the governments of those jurisdictions.
• In other jurisdictions where the federal system applies, the Government returns the vast majority of direct fuel charge proceeds to households through Climate Action Incentive payments.
• The remaining fuel charge proceeds are used to support key sectors and populations including trade-exposedsmall businesses, farmers and Indigenous groups.
• Federal Output-based Pricing System proceeds for large industrial emitters will be returned via a merit-based program focused on reducing emissions from industrial facilities and to support grid-greening projects in the electricity sector.

GUIDANCE FOR USING CARBON POLLUTION PRICING PROCEEDS

However, there are numerous critics that say that it does. I don't understand why the government just doesn't release the numbers in an easy to manage way if the stated intent of the policy is being followed.

 

[Quirky]

The Real Reason Women Are Going Gaga Over Justin Trudeau

Article from 2015, a lot has changed since then. Trudeau is the poster child of a beta male, women don’t want to be with weakling feminists.

 

[Rifleman62]

The government documents say it does not go into general revenue.

Ask small businesses about that.

Government to cut small business carbon tax rebate by $500 million in 2024 to fund higher consumer rebates

Ottawa’s decision to cut the share of carbon tax revenues allocated to small businesses – while it has yet to return anything - is deeply insulting, says CFIB

www.cfib-fcei.ca

Government to cut small business carbon tax rebate by $500 million in 2024 to fund higher consumer rebates​

$2.5 billion in SME rebates sitting on books in Ottawa since 2019

Toronto, February 22, 2024 – Ottawa’s decision to cut the share of carbon tax revenues allocated to small businesses – while it has yet to return anything - is deeply insulting, says the Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CFIB).

New documents published by the federal government last Friday reveal that Ottawa is reducing the amount of carbon tax revenue it plans to rebate to small and medium-sized businesses from 9% to 5% starting in 2024. Meanwhile, the amount allocated for consumers and Indigenous governments will increase to 93% and 2%, respectively.

“Given the giant carbon tax rate increase planned for April 1, small business would have received $500 million more in rebates than is currently scheduled,” said CFIB president Dan Kelly. This represents a 44% reduction in the rebate allocation for SMEs going forward. Last week’s announcement proved that the federal government has paid for the increased rural rebate and a doubling of the amount earmarked to Indigenous governments by cutting the share for small business.

“And it is important to keep in mind that despite the fact that the federal government has been collecting carbon taxes since 2019, there is still no system set up to return a nickel to small businesses,” Kelly added. In fact, the federal government confirmed last week that it still owes small businesses over $2.5 billion in carbon tax rebates collected over the past five years.

“While consumers are getting more in rebates, small businesses just keep getting the short end of the stick,” Kelly said. “This is unacceptable and a slap in the face to all small firms, especially as CFIB estimates SMEs actually pay 40% of carbon tax revenue.”

To make matters even more unfair, the past $2.5 billion and the ongoing 5% share for small business are intended to go only to emissions-intensive, trade-exposed businesses even though all small firms pay the tax.

“It is little wonder that 85% of small firms now oppose the federal carbon tax,” Kelly added.

While it is clear Canadians will debate the future of the carbon tax itself in the next federal election, CFIB is calling on government for immediate action, including plans to:

• Immediately return the $2.5 billion owed to all small businesses, not just certain sectors.
• Scrap the plan to reduce the SME share of carbon tax revenue from 9 to 5% in 2024 and rebate it annually.
• Increase the share of rebates dedicated to SMEs to 40% over time.
• Pass Bill C-234 as originally proposed to exempt natural gas and propane used for on-farm activities, including grain drying and heating farm buildings.
• Freeze the carbon tax at its current level.
• Exempt all heating fuels, including natural gas.

“Small businesses are rightfully owed what Ottawa has promised them in carbon tax revenues. It’s time for Ottawa to stop playing a shell game and fix the broken carbon tax system,” said Corinne Pohlmann, Executive Vice-President of Advocacy at CFIB. “The upcoming federal budget is an opportunity for the government to provide substantial financial relief to small firms to offset the tremendous costs the carbon tax system has imposed on small businesses during a particularly challenging time.”

 

[Kirkhill]

Jagmeet Singh backpedals on consumer carbon levy, distances NDP from support for Justin Trudeau’s policy

The federal New Democrats no longer believe a consumer carbon price is necessary to fight climate change, Jagmeet Singh suggested Thursday.

www.thestar.com

OTTAWA — The federal New Democrats no longer believe a consumer carbon price is necessary to fight climate change, Jagmeet Singh suggested Thursday.
The new position, which appears to break with the NDP’s previous support for the policy, was outlined in a speech Singh delivered at the Broadbent Institute’s annual policy conference in Ottawa on Thursday. In it, he distanced his party from the federal Liberals’ flagship climate policy,which has drawn criticism from across the country as the levy and its accompanying rebates increased this April.

 

[RangerRay]

Jagmeet Singh backpedals on consumer carbon levy, distances NDP from support for Justin Trudeau’s policy

The federal New Democrats no longer believe a consumer carbon price is necessary to fight climate change, Jagmeet Singh suggested Thursday.

www.thestar.com

What is old is new again. This was the BC NDP’s position in the 2000’s when Gordon Campbell went all in. Traditionally, the NDP opposed sales taxes and other similar schemes as “regressive” and having a bigger impact on lower income earners. When dealing with inelastic goods like heating and fuel, they were right.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I know people like my 4 aunts on my fathers side (they worshipped Trudeau SR) were super excited when Justin was running. And they have since put forth the worst arguments and biggest excuse mongering to defend him since ...

On the other side of the coin, I know long-time hard-core Team Red'ers who now can only shake their heads.

 

[Kirkhill]

@RangerRay

The federal government has estimated that all carbon pricing will account for up to one-third of Canada's emissions reductions in 2030.

Most of that one-third will come from the industrial pricing, which is far more effective according to a new study by the Canadian Climate Institute.

The researchers found that the carbon pricing applied to big industrial polluters will cut between 53 million and 90 million tonnes by 2030, while the pricing on consumers will cut between 19 million and 22 million tonnes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/climate/carbon-tax-controversy-1.7151551

The usual argument against corporate taxes is that they will usually be passed down to consumers. Usually I would agree.

But.

In this instance the corporations have particular advantages over the broad base of consumers.

They own the Carbon. It is theirs to do with as they will. And if the cost of disposal rises then they will find ways to mitigate that cost. The best mitigation is to convert it into a market ready by-product which will yield an alternate revenue stream. The most imaginative producer wins.

The other advantage they have is ready access to capital to fund their projects.

The final advantage is that they regularly expand, upgrade, modify, renew and maintain their plant.

They are positioned to make the most efficient use of capital in response to government signals.


Homeowners and car drivers are a lot more stingy with their dollars and a lot less likely to make a move en masse to a new technology unless it is in the entertainment field.

Consumers will likely take a generation or two to replace their hydro-carbon based solutions. Industry can achieve greater effect in a decade.

 

[Halifax Tar]

What is old is new again. This was the BC NDP’s position in the 2000’s when Gordon Campbell went all in. Traditionally, the NDP opposed sales taxes and other similar schemes as “regressive” and having a bigger impact on lower income earners. When dealing with inelastic goods like heating and fuel, they were right.

Dissention grows...

 

[ModlrMike]

The researchers found that the carbon pricing applied to big industrial polluters will cut between 53 million and 90 million tonnes by 2030, while the pricing on consumers will cut between 19 million and 22 million tonnes.

This fails to recognize that at the end of the day, consumers will still pay. Any tax levied on producers will inevitably find its way to the consumer. Input costs assessed against a producer incite a corresponding rise in prices. It's great sport to believe that producers are making money hand over fist, but the reality of business it that most operate on relatively thin margins, particularly domestic businesses.

 

[ArmyRick]

On the other side of the coin, I know long-time hard-core Team Red'ers who now can only shake their heads.

You just described my mother-in-law. Liberal all her life until Trudeau and she can't stomach him

 

[RangerRay]

This fails to recognize that at the end of the day, consumers will still pay. Any tax levied on producers will inevitably find its way to the consumer. Input costs assessed against a producer incite a corresponding rise in prices. It's great sport to believe that producers are making money hand over fist, but the reality of business it that most operate on relatively thin margins, particularly domestic businesses.

True enough, but consumers can always choose to buy their goods at increased prices, especially if they are elastic. It’s a lot harder for most consumers to change their lifestyle in a way to significantly reduce their carbon emissions over the short term.