Naval Reserve Commissioning Policy

[Blatchman]

Good Day All

          I spoke to a A/SLt not too long ago who just received their promotion yet had not completed a degree. Which raises the question about what are the orders and regulations WRT Naval Reserve Officer Commissioning? I would assume they are the same as the Regular force. I did a quick search of the DAODs and CFAOs which did not turn up any answers.

 

[George Wallace]

Depending on their Entry Plan, and if they are still working towards their Degree, I do not think there is any reason to prevent them from being promoted on completion of their 'Occupational Crses' in the Reserves. 

A RESO candidate, attending university, will be promoted to 2Lt on completion of his/her qualifying course, and progress to Lt on completion of that qualifying course.  There is no restriction of having attained a Degree in that period of time.  Promotion to Capt (Lt(N) ) is another matter.

 

[kratz]

George has it right.

If you are searching for the reference you will need aces to the DIN. Naval Reserve careers are governed by MARCORD 9-1. The career chart for Officers is in Annex B, page 5 of the reference.

 

[Blatchman]

Very interesting, I did not realise that. Thank you

Now as I am sure you can tell I am currently a CIC Officer and a first year university student and plan on attempting a CT to PRes MARS in my second year. I would like to maintain my commission while of course taking a reduction in rank to A/Slt, I had assumed that this would be difficult without a degree that being said if I went in under RESO or similar entry plan then should it be possible for me to maintain my commission?


Thank you for the reference unfortunately I do not have access to the DIN although I should be able to find a way to access this information.

Thank You

 

[kratz]

Blatch,

I have witness the type of CT you are describing, so the process does exist. Check with the CFRC or the NRD you are CTing to and they should be able to assist with printing off the reference(s) you will be following to remain commissioned.

 

[Blatchman]

Thank you again, I will do that and hopefully it all works out.

 

[Sailorwest]

Once you have a commission, they can't take it away from you, unless you do something profoundly illegal. You cannot be reverted in rank to NCdt.

 

[George Wallace]

Once you have a commission, they can't take it away from you, unless you do something profoundly illegal. You cannot be reverted in rank to NCdt.

A "Commission" is not a "Rank".  You may keep your Commission, but not necessarily your rank.  I can not see a Capt (N) CIC officer doing a CT to the Naval Reserve and retaining that rank.

 

[MARS]

A "Commission" is not a "Rank".  You may keep your Commission, but not necessarily your rank.  I can not see a Capt (N) CIC officer doing a CT to the Naval Reserve and retaining that rank.

Fair enough, and I see your point about the distinction, but...

Does the CF have any OCdts/NCdts with commissions?  I have never met one, which doesn't mean that person doesn't exist, I guess.

Understanding that wikipedia is hardly a reliable source, it was the only internet source I could find on this, and it states, in part:

"Officer Cadets in the CF are subordinate officers, and billet and mess with other officers, but do not carry the Queen's commission and are not entitled to receive salutes..."

Is that not correct?  If it is, and if Sailorwest is correct that your commission cannot be arbitrarily revoked, then I suspect the officer in question could not be reverted to that rank.  Likely A/SLt or SLt...

 

[George Wallace]

If you want a real can of worms, think of the other ranks in the Cadet Movement.  If it takes an Act of Parliament to dismiss a WO/MWO/CWO in the Regular and Reserve Forces, what about those in the Cadet Movement then?  I know it is quite absurd to bring up, but you can see where depending on the person's credentials there may be some debate as to what they should be credited with.  Have they had any formal CF Leadership Trg as an officer, or have they only had CIC indoctrination?  Some CIC instructors are Ex-Regular Force.  Some are Civilians who have entered the program.  Some of the latter have been a disgrace to the uniform, with long hair, improper wearing of the uniform, etc.  I suspect, when a CIC officer decides to do a CT, many of these factors will have to be looked at, and each applicant treated on an individual basis.

 

[gcclarke]

I had a former CIC officer upon my basic training course who was made a NCdt upon his transfer to the Reg Force. Presumable, he was also not considered a commissioned officer at the time. Of course, I cannot say that the same would apply for a CT to the PRes.

The gentleman in question was going from Sea CIC to Sea Log, and this was in 2005.

While your commission cannot be arbitrarily revoked, I can see resigning your commission (hopefully temporarily) being made a pre-requisite of a CT.

 

[Snakedoc]

I had a couple former CIC officers when I did basic and they were A/SLt's.  I also think there was a NCdt CIC officer who eventually did get back pay as a A/SLt.

I would think that once you are given a commission, this can't be forcibly removed from you unless you do something really wrong.  Making an individual resign their commision as a prerequisite to an entry plan to becoming a officer also doesn't seem right.  I agree a careful examination of an individuals credentials is important whenever doing a CT but the credentialling process is a different issue than the commission itself.

If the CF has set the Commissioning standard at a certain level (whether too low or not), it is the CF standard none the less and I do not see why a commission would be revoked for changing jobs within the CF.

My 2 cents.

 

[bullitt]

I am a bit confused and please forgive me if i sound ignorant, but during my final interview I was told I would be sworn in and commissioned as a (N)Cdt? Was there just an error in what was said, or more then likely what I heard?  And if that is correct do I go through another ceremony to be commissioned once I have earned a promotion to Sub Lt?

 

[George Wallace]

I am a bit confused and please forgive me if i sound ignorant, but during my final interview I was told I would be sworn in and commissioned as a (N)Cdt? Was there just an error in what was said, or more then likely what I heard?  And if that is correct do I go through another ceremony to be commissioned once I have earned a promotion to Sub Lt?

You have it correct.  Gone are the days where persons "of privilege" could purchase their Commissions.  Today, in Canada, you have to earn it.  It also saves all the hassle of having large numbers of people Resign their Commission because they failed to pass their Basic Officer Courses. 

 

[Neill McKay]

I am a bit confused and please forgive me if i sound ignorant, but during my final interview I was told I would be sworn in and commissioned as a (N)Cdt? Was there just an error in what was said, or more then likely what I heard?  And if that is correct do I go through another ceremony to be commissioned once I have earned a promotion to Sub Lt?

That sounds like a slip of the tongue, or a misunderstanding.  You would be sworn in as a NCdt, but not commissioned until reaching the rank of A/Slt.

 

[bullitt]

Thanks that clears it up, I must have misunderstood!

 

[MARS]

For the OP's situational awareness, the following is taken from NAVRESORD 006-01:

CIC Officers

17. The awarding of rank, qualifications, time credit and pay rate is related to the enrolment entry scheme and previous service.  Commissioned officers of the CIC shall retain their commission on transfer to the Primary Reserve (PRES) and will be awarded rank based on their qualifications in their new MOC.

Cheers,

MARS

 

[Blatchman]

Thank You very much MARS

  That is just what I was looking for, an order or regulation.

again thank you

 

[ltmaverick25]

Having just gone through this process two years ago, here is what I know:

(I was never a CIC beforehand and dont know what implications that would have)

If you join NAVRES as a DEO candidate, meaning you already have a degree, you are appointed to NCdt.  Upon completion of BMOQ you receive your commission and are promoted to A/SLt.  Pay and seniority are backdated to enrolment date.

If you have not already completed your degree you will be appointed to NCdt and receive your commission and promotion to A/SLt upon successful completion of your Phase 3 training.  When you complete phase 4 you are promoted to SLt.  I am not sure if you need your degree to make it to Lt(N).  As far as I am aware the requirements for Lt(N): Be MOC qualified plus 3 years time in rank as an SLt.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Promotion to Capt (Lt(N) ) is another matter.

I was a RESO Captain before I competed my degree.  I know of at least one guy that made it to Major without a degree.  My understanding of RESO was the program ended when you were fully MOC qualified and then you were promoted and trained in competition with your peers.