Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]

[Eye In The Sky]

Well, that probably won't look as stupid as the mix-match of OD and CADPAT the army went thru for a few years.

Now...if only they would get rid of the CADPAT rank slip-ons worn on NCDs for Army DEU types posted to a HMCS...I'd be happy.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Now...if only they would get rid of the CADPAT rank slip-ons worn on NCDs for Army DEU types posted to a HMCS...I'd be happy.

I agree it looks totally ridiculous, even more so when worn as a walking out rig.  This is where a Naval type of CADPAT for shipboard wear could work, all that would separate the various elements on ship would be the name tapes and the slip-ons.



 

 

[Messmom]

Brass tacks? The Army did not spend the big bucks and the years of design that went into Cadpat to look more military. They designed it to disrupt the view of the enemy of our soldiers. A camouflage uniform for an outfit that has zero operational requirement for it is nothing more than an incredible waste of money.

 

[Loachman]

The reasons that at least two Western Navies are moving towards a disruptive pattern uniform can be found in this post and others in the same thread: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79706/post-829478.html#msg829478

The apparent intent of the disruptive pattern is not to blend in with the background, but for dirt, paint, and whatever other stains to blend in with the uniform. Overall, they are a lighter tone than NCD, and therefore likely to a little more comfortable in blazing sun.

Maybe a compromise is in order to keep traditionalists happy: square rig style in a blue/grey disruptive pattern fabric.

 

[Snakedoc]

The reasons that at least two Western Navies are moving towards a disruptive pattern uniform can be found in this post and others in the same thread: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79706/post-829478.html#msg829478

The apparent intent of the disruptive pattern is not to blend in with the background, but for dirt, paint, and whatever other stains to blend in with the uniform. Overall, they are a lighter tone than NCD, and therefore likely to a little more comfortable in blazing sun.

Maybe a compromise is in order to keep traditionalists happy: square rig style in a blue/grey disruptive pattern fabric.

As I had illustrated in the other thread, I used to like the NCD's more and in fact have no problem with the current version that we have.  However, when I saw a picture that was posted in the other thread of the new NCDs, I thought they looked even more sloppy and as others put it, 'like a mall security guard' uniform...quite literally.  Comments about how the shoes look like bowling shoes or about the terrible looking name tag were definitely not off the mark.

The reason I like the shift of some other navies towards the camou version of shipboard dress is that it does not look sloppy, hides some of the stains well, is practical (various pockets etc.), looks professional, and gives a strong military presence both at home and abroad.  This also gives the Navy a practical uniform that can be worn on ship or in the field with no doubt the individual is a CF member.  I'm not saying we need to look like the army or air force but why does the 'camou' style need to be reserved for those elements?

 

[Snakedoc]

A picture for everyone's reference.

New NCD in picture !!

... :-\

http://www.forces.gc.ca./admmat/nice-ehma/itemsclothing-articleshabillement-eng.asp

 

[Snakedoc]

New RAN and USN uniforms...let me know what you guys think.

 

[tabernac]

Aesthetically, maybe we're basing too much off the pictures from the CTS(ailor) site. While the picture seems the convey the look of a mall cop, perhaps the uniform does not fit the good Chief well.

Just a thought.

 

[Snakedoc]

Aesthetically, maybe we're basing too much off the pictures from the CTS(ailor) site. While the picture seems the convey the look of a mall cop, perhaps the uniform does not fit the good Chief well.

Just a thought.

I don't see anything wrong with the fit on the Chief...seems to be the right sizing etc.

 

[Sailorwest]

The reason I like the shift of some other navies towards the camou version of shipboard dress is that it does not look sloppy, hides some of the stains well, is practical (various pockets etc.), looks professional, and gives a strong military presence both at home and abroad.  This also gives the Navy a practical uniform that can be worn on ship or in the field with no doubt the individual is a CF member.  I'm not saying we need to look like the army or air force but why does the 'camou' style need to be reserved for those elements?

So what does it matter what colour the uniform is then? We want a uniform in Camo so that it will hide grease and paint stains better? Lets just buy into the Army/Air Force pattern and save a lot of time and energy coming up with a new pattern. Or is this more about our sailors looking like the Yanks when we go to US ports or do joints ops with them? For me, the naval combat is a utilitarian uniform that should never have been approved as a walking out form of dress. Dockyards and shipboard wear only. It was designed for function not presentation.

 

[gcclarke]

The same argument can of course be made for CADPAT, or any uniform other than DEUs. Whether or not they happen to look cool is secondary to the function that they provide. As to them being walking out dress... do we really want to start forcing everyone to change before and after work? Don't get me wrong, whilst aboard ship I generally do anyways, but I see no problem with people having the options. I realize it may not look the "sharpest", but I'm also fairly certain that Joe Q. Public is also smart enough to figure out that it's working dress, and not what the honour guard is wearing.

And if you do feel that a strong military presence is important, well then letting people wear their NCDs to and from work certainly gives a stronger presence than making them wear civvies en route.

 

[tabernac]

I don't see anything wrong with the fit on the Chief...seems to be the right sizing etc.

Pants are too long, giving them a sagging look. Perhaps the pant creases weren't pressed before the pictures were taken.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Aren't the pant creases sewn in?

 

[Sailorwest]

The same argument can of course be made for CADPAT, or any uniform other than DEUs. Whether or not they happen to look cool is secondary to the function that they provide. As to them being walking out dress... do we really want to start forcing everyone to change before and after work? Don't get me wrong, whilst aboard ship I generally do anyways, but I see no problem with people having the options. I realize it may not look the "sharpest", but I'm also fairly certain that Joe Q. Public is also smart enough to figure out that it's working dress, and not what the honour guard is wearing.

And if you do feel that a strong military presence is important, well then letting people wear their NCDs to and from work certainly gives a stronger presence than making them wear civvies en route.

Well, I think the decision to make combats a walking out dress was before the new CADPAT was adopted and it was really an Army oriented decision. The Navy chose to allow NCD's as a walking out dress to allow the sailors to have a similar work wear that they could wear in public. In reality, I don't think the NCD provides a very good public image for the Navy and should be restricted to dockyards and on ships.

The Army can argue that the combats and the new CADPAT uniforms were generally what the public thinks about when they see soldiers. I don't think the same is true for the Navy and NCDs. Even less so, should we adopt some form of camo working uniform. We then become soldiers in some weird blue camouflage. What sailors should be wearing in public is not the same as what soldiers should be wearing. I guess that I am lumping the Air Force in with the Army as they have adopted the CADPAT uniform as a common dress of the day. Sorry for any offence to those in the light blue.

 

[gcclarke]

This still leaves unanswered the question of what to use as a walking out dress. Re-inventing work dress to look better is an option, but I highly doubt we could justify spending the money, especially nearing the tail end of a project designed to revamp NCDs. As well, doing so would likely have a negative impact upon the functionality of the work dress.

The other option is to simply make DEUs the only authorized work dress. The only effect would be that everyone who has NCDs as dress-of-the-day and currently commutes in them, would now commute in civvies. Thus decreasing the visibility of the Navy. While NCDs may not be the best possible public image for the Navy, and I'm not sure I agree with you on this point, they are A public image for the Navy, which is better than no public image for the Navy.

The only way to have functional work dress and increased public exposure to a sharper uniform would be to force everyone to commute in DEUs, and have those who need to wear NCDs change at work. I know I sure as heck don't want to do this, and I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of sailors would agree with me on this point.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want a work dress that works, it's going to look like a work dress. And if you want public exposure of the Navy, that exposure is going to include that work dress.

But I also don't see why that's a bad thing. This is what we work in. I don't see why it is a bad thing to give the public a glimpse of what we actually do. You said that CADPAT works because it's generally what the public thinks about when they see soldiers. I see no reason why it would be a bad thing for the public to see NCDs and think about sailors as people who work in NCDs for a living. It's certainly a better perception of us than if they were only to see us in Mess Kit and have people think we do nothing but cocktail parties.

 

[Sub_Guy]

The only way to have functional work dress and increased public exposure to a sharper uniform would be to force everyone to commute in DEUs, and have those who need to wear NCDs change at work.

It wasn't that long ago when this was the case.  You had to change at work, and NCD's were only authorized for wear while posted to a sea going unit.

 

[Snakedoc]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want a work dress that works, it's going to look like a work dress. And if you want public exposure of the Navy, that exposure is going to include that work dress.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.  In fact, didn't our former CDS say that all members should be going to work in their dress of the day in order to increase exposure for the CF as part of OP Connection?

The Navy chose to allow NCD's as a walking out dress to allow the sailors to have a similar work wear that they could wear in public. In reality, I don't think the NCD provides a very good public image for the Navy and should be restricted to dockyards and on ships.

The Army can argue that the combats and the new CADPAT uniforms were generally what the public thinks about when they see soldiers. I don't think the same is true for the Navy and NCDs. Even less so, should we adopt some form of camo working uniform. We then become soldiers in some weird blue camouflage. What sailors should be wearing in public is not the same as what soldiers should be wearing.

Would you have an ideal uniform in mind that would be suitable as work dress but still allow the public the right image of a Sailor?  I personally think the camou style uniform conveys to the public that we are military members of the CF and either the grey or 'navy blue' style coinciding with our 'grey hulls' or the navy's colors.  I am not saying the camou style is the answer but rather one of the options to consider outside of the currently 'updated' NCDs.  I would be fine with a 'military' looking uniform that was a solid color as well, I just don't think the current NCDs provide the public with that image and the new ones....unfortunately provide that of a 'mall security guard' IMO.

 

[gcclarke]

Would you have an ideal uniform in mind that would be suitable as work dress but still allow the public the right image of a Sailor?  I personally think the camou style uniform conveys to the public that we are military members of the CF and either the grey or 'navy blue' style coinciding with our 'grey hulls' or the navy's colors.  I am not saying the camou style is the answer but rather one of the options to consider outside of the currently 'updated' NCDs.  I would be fine with a 'military' looking uniform that was a solid color as well, I just don't think the current NCDs provide the public with that image and the new ones....unfortunately provide that of a 'mall security guard' IMO.

I'm not really sure I can envision an ideal. Honestly, I think the best option is just NCDs (new or old) minus the jacket. In my mind, the jacket is what "breaks" the image, and turns it more mall cop-ish. That having been said, I'm not sure what would be the best way to fix it. A colour other than black? Add some tailoring to make it look like less of a potato sack? I'm not sure.
While the idea of blue camo would indeed get the point across that we're in the military, I don't really think it's the right image for us. To me, that would just give the impression that we're just soldiers on ships, but let's face it, the job we do is very different from what the army does. Camo for the sake of public image, as opposed to actually needing camouflage isn't my preferred option.
As long as we don't go back to a separate dress for officers vice NCMs, to the square rig stuff. It would, in my not so humble opinion, be a step in the wrong direction, and run contrary to trends not only in the Navy, but in society at large.

 

[Radar114]

One of the guys onboard who is doing the trial said the stuff is too big.  They are using that computer system for sizing and all of his stuff isn't working for size.  Another guys says he likes it.  Betterfit to the uniform.

I have the boots.  Hate them, too heavy and clunky.  Only good thing to say is about the cushion and the speed laces as I call them.  Now for zippers please.

I hope the nametag is just for show and no intention of using it.

 

[Monsoon]

In my mind, the jacket is what "breaks" the image, and turns it more mall cop-ish.

I'm not sure the jacket is altogether different from the one we have now (aside from the arm pockets). I think it looks a bit dweebish in the photo because he's wearing it zipped all the way up to the chin, but I remember that when they first issued the current jacket people used to do that as well... until they realized that it looked less retarded with the collar folded down.