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NATO: Too Many Restrictions on Foreign Forces in AFG

The Bread Guy

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Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

UN envoy demands Afghan shake-up
Financial Times, 4 Sept 06
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/976e13fa-3c32-11db-9c97-0000779e2340.html

The senior United Nations envoy to Afghanistan has warned that some Nato troops in the country are operating under excessive restrictions that are hampering the alliance’s mission there.

The alliance, whose credibility is widely seen as hanging on its success in the country, is facing unexpectedly fierce opposition from resurgent Taliban fighters that has alarmed some Nato governments.

The warning from Tom Koenigs, the UN’s special representative for Afghanistan, came as Nato’s entire civilian and military leadership flew out to the country. Nato said the visit had been long planned to demonstrate a joint commitment to the mission – but officials said it should help fight the perception that the alliance was losing its way there.

Mr Koenigs said Nato needed more troops and fewer restrictions on their freedom of manoeuvre. In particular, he said that there were “around 71 caveats” or restrictions on the Nato mission, which he argued were “too many and must be removed”.

Key caveats limit the combat role of Germany’s 2,800 troops and restrict them to Kabul and the relatively peaceful north of the country. Nato can deploy them elsewhere only “under exceptional circumstances and on a temporary basis”.

Mr Koenigs, a German national, added that the country’s soldiers in Afghanistan had been “lucky to be deployed in the relatively peaceful north [of the country] but they must now accept having to go to the south.”

Both the local police and military were currently “hopelessly overstretched,” he said.

On Monday, the Netherlands, another country that has recently debated a possible troop redeployment, confirmed that about 100 Dutch soldiers had been temporarily reassigned to the southern province of Kandahar to assist Canadian forces.

Mr Koenigs was scheduled to meet the Nato delegation, headed by Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, secretary general, and James Jones, the alliance’s top military commander, during its three day trip to Afghanistan. The ambassadors of all 26 Nato nations are also participating in the visit . . . .

This was mentioned in this report, too, on 22 Aug 06:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33627.pdf

''An attack on the Norwegian-Finnish PRT in normally tranquil Meymaneh, in western Afghanistan, in February 2006 had given an indication of an emerging problem: the need for a rapid military response capability for rescue operations. When the PRT was attacked, no NATO combat forces were in the region
to protect the ISAF personnel.
Other NATO forces that were nearby had caveats prohibiting their use in combat operations. Eventually a British plane and forces were found to end the attack on the PRT. Before and after the attack on the PRT, NATO SACEUR General James Jones called upon the NATO governments to pledge forces to ISAF that would be capable of combat operations. He has waged a constant campaign to cajole allied governments not to place caveats on their forces that ruled out combat operations.''

''....Berlin was adamant that German forces would not engage in combat operations; according to NATO officials, the German caveat against combat has limited the alliance in integrating German forces
with those of other allied governments.
Former Defense Minister Struck had opposed merging ISAF and OEF commands because it “would make the situation for our soldiers doubly dangerous and worsen the current climate in Afghanistan.” These restrictions on German forces in ISAF continue. However, when the mandate for German forces in Afghanistan expires and is renewed in fall 2006, there is a possibility that the Merkel government may allow a more forceful response from its soldiers when they confront warlords, drug traffickers, and other armed groups in the vicinity of their PRTs."

''The Dutch government . . . . does not want its ground forces involved in combat operations. Dutch forces are wearing olive, and not camouflage, uniforms. In the Dutch view, ISAF’s purpose is “to provide a secure and stable environment for reconstruction.” However, the Netherlands endorsed the “synergy” of ISAF and OEF commands and has made available four F-16s for missions in both ISAF and OEF. The aircraft may be used for missions from intelligence gathering to close air support. As mentioned earlier, the Netherlands is in the process of sending 1,400 troops to Afghanistan for Stage Three operations.  The political effects of the domestic Dutch debate have found their way into the field. Dutch commanders on the ground in Afghanistan reportedly insisted to NATO counterparts that no Dutch troops must be killed in combat, a view they were told was unrealistic, given that Uruzgan is one of the most restive provinces in Afghanistan.''

 
having European troops attached to Canadian/British/American forces wouldn't necessarily be an asset. Try to get them to fight. Try to get them to dismount. Try to get them to leave the MSR.
My section was called out to provide security for some Germans.
Giddy up. Off we go, expecting to find a det, or maybe a section.
Nope.
A platoon. Terrified. ::)
 
Yikes -  This may sound naive, but as worthy as the task of helping straighten things out in AFG is, it sounds WAY more complicated than I figured (and I figured the drugs, warlords, tribal animosity, history, poverty, isolation and lack of capacity alone were biggies!).
 
with what para said 'and try to get them to leave the PX'

the only other ppl we saw fight were americans and brits, and the ana of course, i woulda thought that most euro countries would understand better then most the value of assisting other nations in a war,

there is definitly an 'us' and 'them' nato feeling
the next time the euro's need saving perhaps we should 'caveat' ourselves, till after the playoffs, or may 24, or xmas.....

mho



 
Well the french in Spin were doing some fighting too , we just never really heard about up in our area.
 
Even in (relatively peaceful) Bosnia, there were numerous caveats applied to the use of various national contingents and their ROE.  Our TF LEGAD spent a major portion of his time trying to unravel, for the Comd, who could do what, when and where.  So this is nothing new.

On the other hand, some national contingents were quite permissive in terms of how they could be deployed.  Interestingly, one of the most robust I worked with was Romania, whose forces, incidentally, I found to be extremely professional and competent.  The trouble is as much trying to keep track of the various national caveats as you design ops and do the troops-to-task assignments, as what they actually are.
 
Just found this, adding to the "what the Dutch are up to" file (appears to be back-filling, rather than strictly pointy end), shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

Dutch Soldiers Active In Kandahar
Netherlands National News Agency, 5 Sept 06
http://www.nisnews.nl/public/050906_2.htm

About 100 Dutch soldiers are currently operating in the Afghan province of Kandahar in support of the Canadian army. For this reason, the Dutch left their own base in Uruzgan last week.

The defence ministry in The Hague confirmed the "temporary presence" of Dutch military in Kandahar yesterday. They are guarding a post on the route between Kandahar city and Tarin Kowt, the capital of Uruzgan. The Netherlands' support enabled Canadian soldiers in Kandahar to participate in an offensive against the Taliban.

Defence Minister Henk Kamp already said in the Lower House last week that incidental help outside of Uruzgan was within the mandate agreed earlier with parliament. Only if there was a question of structural deployment outside the Dutch military's 'own' province would a new situation arise which the Lower House would have to approve, according to Kamp.

The socialists (SP) had requested clarification following reports that the regional command of the NATO-led ISAF international security force wanted more freedom to deploy military troops more effectively in the southern provinces of Afghanistan. This concerns Kandahar and Helmand, where the British are stationed.


 
Hi guys, my first post here.

First off ... nice site you people have up here  ;).

I have to "disarm" some of the comments made in the posted articles above. Can't believe some of that stuff even made into official reports.

1) The Dutch troops ARE wearing camouflage uniforms. I don't know how that article came up with that:

http://www.ad.nl/uruzgan/article446931.ece

http://www.landmacht.nl/Extra/Fotogalerij/frmMediaThumbnails.aspx?nCategoryID=14

2) 1.700 Dutch troops are operating in Uruzgan ALSO in the more dangerous southern provinces of Afghanistan and also have regular fire contact with Taliban elements. So, it's not like our troops are staying on their base and doing nothing. When they encounter or locate Taliban troops they do actively engage them. It's not like they are just in hiding waiting to surrender.

3) No mention of Dutch Special Forces actions in Operation Enduring Freedom and the mission of ISAF in Southern Afghanistan? No mention of 6 AH-64D Apache Longbows and not 4, but 6 F-16MLD's available to all allied forces in Southern Afghanistan and assisting Canadian and UK forces the past few weeks aswell.

4) The Dutch contingent based in Tarin Kowt, together with about 550 Australians has been at full manpower since end of july, so it's not in the process of beying deployed. They are already there, so a factual error in  that report which is dated august 22nd 2006.

It's true that some of our politicians are soooo scared of casualties it drives a lot of soldiers mad. However, it's not as bad as this article wants to portray, not nearly as bad.

I can't speak for the Germans though, their politicians are even worse then ours.

However, one thing I will say: "GO :cdn:!"

Regards,

Mourning  8)
 
Mourning said:
Hi guys, my first post here.
...

Welcome to Army.ca!

Some of us have had the pleasure of serving with your forces - back (until 1970) when we were in NATO/NORTHAG and, for a few of us, in HQ AFCENT in Brunssum.  I think we all understand that our Dutch allies are, still, "valient and stout hearted" as Churchill decribed them.  We all have politicians we would rather send to Afghanistan.

That being said, many members here, members with recent combat experience, are not keen on fighting alongside most Europeans.  Don't be offended; correct us when we're wrong and join us in supporting our combined, allied efforts in the War on Barbarism.
 
After seeing what happened in BH, Sudan, Rwanda, etc.... it is obvious that the ROEs that are imposed on troops has the effect of tying one (or both) hands behind their back.

NATO, national gov'ts AND the UN MUST get their act together and provide troops with clear direction of what is expected of them - and how they are expected to deliver the goods.
 
Edward Campbell said:
Welcome to Army.ca!

Some of us have had the pleasure of serving with your forces - back (until 1970) when we were in NATO/NORTHAG and, for a few of us, in HQ AFCENT in Brunssum.  I think we all understand that our Dutch allies are, still, "valient and stout hearted" as Churchill decribed them.  We all have politicians we would rather send to Afghanistan.

That being said, many members here, members with recent combat experience, are not keen on fighting alongside most Europeans.  Don't be offended; correct us when we're wrong and join us in supporting our combined, allied efforts in the War on Barbarism.

Actually Edward, some have had the pleasure of operating with the Dutch in Afghanistan, and seeing their Apache's and Fighters in action.  They have not gone unnoticed.
 
+1 George.  See, for instance:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33069/post-246433.html#msg246433

However, as I and others have expounded upon before, the caveats (in many cases) severely restrict the operational effectiveness of ISAF contingents, to the point where we have some countries unwilling to operate outside a particular police district in Kabul centre.  Moreover, the operational focus of some ISAF members is somewhat lacking - to put it mildly.
 
Welcome, Mourning...

My source for the Dutch not in cam is from a report from the Congressional Research Service (CRS), a reasonably unbiased research service for the US House of Congress.  The report is here:
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/71867.pdf

and the Dutch reference to a lack of cam uniforms is not attributed or footnoted in the report.  Other information seems to be based on interviews CRS staff did with military and political officials from the USA and other NATO countries, but these officials aren't named.

Thanks TONS for adding to the information pool here!

 
I understood the intent of the article to be emphasising that the Dutch had a temperate combat uniform (lots of green) as opposed to an arid pattern uniform (lots of tan/brown).  In this respect, it is correct.
 
The restrictive ROE's are intended to keep certain European contingents out of actual combat.
 
Tomahawk6

Okay, I'll bite.  Why?  (serious question).

MRM
 
Nothing to bite on. Restrictive ROE's are intended to keep a nations troops out of actual combat period. Meaning that if your ROE only allows you to return enemy fire or to respond in self defense then those troops wont be doing combat sweeps along the Pakistani border.
 
tomahawk6 said:
The restrictive ROE's are intended to keep certain European contingents out of actual combat.

I thought by this you meant it was "intentional and for that very reason", and that NATO has done is knowingly.
 
all we have to do is remember our ROEs from BH............ they stank!
 
My understanding is that the restrictions on ROE's come from national gov'ts/HQ's, not NATO, so I'm guessing it's all based on the political equation "what can we (governing party of country in question) do to help in AFG without losing power here?"
 
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