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caroline65
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Recruit Joe said:
No, you aren't allowed to wear a civilian pattern anything. Don't spend your hard earned money. The rucks are a bit cumbersome but, it does the job it's supposed to do.
My new ruck
- Thread starter tacsit
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No, you aren't allowed to wear a civilian pattern anything. Don't spend your hard earned money. The rucks are a bit cumbersome but, it does the job it's supposed to do.
Arctic Acorn
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Not to detract from the Master Corporals comment, but I will say that it depends on where you go and what you do. It isn't as black and white as that, caroline65...
As a new soldier in the training system, you wear what is issued and that is that. It's just the way it works. As a reservist, the kit policy depends on your unit. Some reserve units are the same way, and some are a bit more relaxed. As long as it's green, and doesn't look out of place, sometimes you can get away with it, but it all depends. But the key thing is that it doesn't look out of place.
In the reg force...well, someone will have to speak for me on that one. I will say that on tours things can change somewhat. I know a lot of folks that used non-issue kit when I was in Bosnia (myself included). There was a great thread on this forum that discussed what types of non-issue kit the PPCLI used when they were in Afghanistan. Do a search and you'll find it.
I would recommend that you follow caroline65's advice and don't spend your hard earned money...at first. Be damn sure what your unit's kit policy is before shelling out dough on something you might not be able to use. However, if you can, more power to you, I say!
As a new soldier in the training system, you wear what is issued and that is that. It's just the way it works. As a reservist, the kit policy depends on your unit. Some reserve units are the same way, and some are a bit more relaxed. As long as it's green, and doesn't look out of place, sometimes you can get away with it, but it all depends. But the key thing is that it doesn't look out of place.
In the reg force...well, someone will have to speak for me on that one. I will say that on tours things can change somewhat. I know a lot of folks that used non-issue kit when I was in Bosnia (myself included). There was a great thread on this forum that discussed what types of non-issue kit the PPCLI used when they were in Afghanistan. Do a search and you'll find it.
I would recommend that you follow caroline65's advice and don't spend your hard earned money...at first. Be damn sure what your unit's kit policy is before shelling out dough on something you might not be able to use. However, if you can, more power to you, I say!
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caroline65
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Arctic Acorn said:
Matt_Fisher
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Caroline, are you playing Devil's Advocate here?
Being a believer in using issued kit for equipment exchange or standardization purposes is one thing. When you start beaking off about peacekeeping vs. peacemaking you really start to show your naievety if you think that every situation you're going to be in is no more than a constabulary action within an established armistice/ceasefire zone. Over the last 10 years there have been plenty of occasions when Canadian troops have had to show aggressiveness and tenacity as warfighters or peacemakers rather than solely being peacekeepers.
Think back to Medac pocket and Croatia and Bosnia before it calmed down.
Think of Somalia (and don't give me the media-inspired "disgrace" argument. We've all read too much Somalia enquiry to realize that the boys were doing a good job, and it was only the actions of a few that created the situation there)
Think of KFOR in Kosovo, where NATOs (including Canadian troops) mandate was to combat all forces not observing the ceasefire.
Think of Afghanistan, where 3VP's snipers engaged and killed enemy forces.
If you truly are a Master Corporal in the Canadian Armed Forces, and are as biased against the violence of action that is necessary for a soldier to do his job, then I pray to god that the troops under your command never have to serve with you in a situation forward of friendly lines (in this case, Canada) where they may rely on your judgement to accomplish the mission effectively.
And if I am ever in the circumstance where I'm serving with you in a coalition environment, I won't bother you to cover my six...I know my Marines (regardless of if they're infantry, mechanic, or a cook) will be looking out for me just as I look out for them...Every Marine a rifleman.
Being a believer in using issued kit for equipment exchange or standardization purposes is one thing. When you start beaking off about peacekeeping vs. peacemaking you really start to show your naievety if you think that every situation you're going to be in is no more than a constabulary action within an established armistice/ceasefire zone. Over the last 10 years there have been plenty of occasions when Canadian troops have had to show aggressiveness and tenacity as warfighters or peacemakers rather than solely being peacekeepers.
Think back to Medac pocket and Croatia and Bosnia before it calmed down.
Think of Somalia (and don't give me the media-inspired "disgrace" argument. We've all read too much Somalia enquiry to realize that the boys were doing a good job, and it was only the actions of a few that created the situation there)
Think of KFOR in Kosovo, where NATOs (including Canadian troops) mandate was to combat all forces not observing the ceasefire.
Think of Afghanistan, where 3VP's snipers engaged and killed enemy forces.
If you truly are a Master Corporal in the Canadian Armed Forces, and are as biased against the violence of action that is necessary for a soldier to do his job, then I pray to god that the troops under your command never have to serve with you in a situation forward of friendly lines (in this case, Canada) where they may rely on your judgement to accomplish the mission effectively.
And if I am ever in the circumstance where I'm serving with you in a coalition environment, I won't bother you to cover my six...I know my Marines (regardless of if they're infantry, mechanic, or a cook) will be looking out for me just as I look out for them...Every Marine a rifleman.
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In regards to using Militia kit,
The standard (or rule-of-thumb, anyway) is that as long as the kit in question is Canadian, you can use it. Brigade doesn't want soldiers in Training Areas using German or American stuff or civvy stuff like School bags with reflectors and stupid stuff like that. I believe someone pointed out that as long as the kit is CADPAT, OD, or Black, it can be used; also true. However, some kit that's British can be used (as long as your Regt. is a sister Regt. or has ties to a Britsh Regt.) It also depends on what your RSM/CSMs say regarding kit. When in doubt, follow the brigade-level recommendation and you can't go wrong. I, as a qualified Pte, have a CADPAT recce patrol pack and a CADPAT hydrapack that is authorized by my PL Warrant and meets 31 CBG's standard and haven't run into problems (even when on Stalwart Guardian.)
The standard (or rule-of-thumb, anyway) is that as long as the kit in question is Canadian, you can use it. Brigade doesn't want soldiers in Training Areas using German or American stuff or civvy stuff like School bags with reflectors and stupid stuff like that. I believe someone pointed out that as long as the kit is CADPAT, OD, or Black, it can be used; also true. However, some kit that's British can be used (as long as your Regt. is a sister Regt. or has ties to a Britsh Regt.) It also depends on what your RSM/CSMs say regarding kit. When in doubt, follow the brigade-level recommendation and you can't go wrong. I, as a qualified Pte, have a CADPAT recce patrol pack and a CADPAT hydrapack that is authorized by my PL Warrant and meets 31 CBG's standard and haven't run into problems (even when on Stalwart Guardian.)
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I have always been against personalizing kit, some reasons
1. Having a standard rigging and equipment, allows everyone in your platoon to know location of your Medical Pack, Ammo, Food and Water
2. Military Issue equipment has passed military standards, it is less likely to fall apart,
3. After a deployment, your gear is trashed, all you need to do is turn it for new equip,
And at the end of the day, we do not choose which regulations and orders we want to follow, it called discipline
1. Having a standard rigging and equipment, allows everyone in your platoon to know location of your Medical Pack, Ammo, Food and Water
2. Military Issue equipment has passed military standards, it is less likely to fall apart,
3. After a deployment, your gear is trashed, all you need to do is turn it for new equip,
And at the end of the day, we do not choose which regulations and orders we want to follow, it called discipline
Matt_Fisher
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2FtOnion said:
Sorry my brother Marine, but I'm gonna disagree with you here on this one in regard to a couple of your points brought out.
First of, in terms of military equipment passing standards and not falling apart :
At the prototype and evaluation stage, maybe yes. At the end of the day your issue gear is made by the lowest bidder, or somebody with a hand in the back pocket of some politician or somebody in procurement. I've seen way too many MOLLE FLCs that were coming apart at the seams to believe that what we're issued is always up to snuff and you don't even want to bring up the issue of MOLLE frames breaking, or degenerate gear that has been issued to me as "serviceable".At the end of the deployment, then yes, you can turn in your "trashed gear" however I've also had times where we turn in gear to be DRMO'd (USMC lingo for equipment that is officially written off as destroyed) only to be reissued it later. You see your buddy turn in an LBV that's all torn up and you see the same LBV on some poor new guy in the unit who's just drawn his gear from supply a couple weeks later. Not so much because supply is out to screw him, just that the new guy NEEDS gear and supply doesn't have the money to buy new stuff or they've got stuff on order and are waiting an indefinite time to receive it.
I'll gladly spend some of my own hard-earned money on decent gear if it means that I'm going to be more efficient and comfortable in the field. And unless I get all shot up and my gear is destroyed in the process (in which case I probably won't be returning to duty anytime soon) my superior aftermarket gear will probably hold up alot longer than any of the issue stuff.
As a rule of thumb, I'll bring my issued 782 gear (more Marine lingo for rucks, LBVs, etc.) on deployment but it'll just sit at the bottom of my seabag, never seeing the light of day, in case we get some crazy word that the Div. Sgt. Major is coming down and he wants to see everybody looking the same, or in the off-chance that my personal stuff gets destroyed and I can't repair it myself (which is pretty unlikely). And even if I was using the issued stuff, the Marine Corps deploys so light logistically, stuff like replacement 782 gear is going to be so far in the rear that it's going to be a good while before you get the opportunity to DX it.
I do agree about having a basic standardization or more aptly put "familarization" of gear within the squad/platoon. For stuff like first aid/trauma, then you NEED to know where it is. For other stuff though, as long as you've got the load prescribed in your mission orders, then you should carry it how you want (within reason of course...that's what pre-combat inspections are for). If you think about the different roles within a Marine fireteam you've already got 4 different billets (2 Riflemen, 1 Grenadier and 1 SAW Gunner) so you've already got 3 different setups there, then add that one of those riflemen is the fireteam leader, so he'll probably have pop-flares, a strobe, and comm gear attached to his gear. At the platoon level you throw in your weapons attachments: 60mm mortar team, M240/C6 team, SMAW team (Marine equivalent to the Carl G) and you've got even more needs for different setups.
I agree that at the end of the day we don't choose which regulations and orders we want to follow, but it's the leader's job to issue an SOP which works in combat, not something decided by what looks good for a Battalion parade review.
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Matt, your right, MOLLE 1 and MOLLE 2 did fall apart, Consolidated Supply was brought about to eliminate the trashed gear to be re-issued, and for bringing two sets or extra 782 gear on deployments, that seems silly to me, now two of my Marines instead of bringing their issued seabag to IRAQ they had the stupid huge seabag, and they packed it so much, they couldn't carry it, and it depends on the lattitude of your command,
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pappy
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First let me say I've visited this site from time to time in "stealth mode" and have decided to step out of the shadows and give my two cents worth on any posts that strike my fancy or make me laugh. Take my bull**** for what its worth it and thats nothing more then my opinion, since that's all it is. I've never served in the CAF, I'm one of the folks you guys are defending your border to keep me out of Canada. Just a former US Marine, I've been out longer then some of you have been alive, so blow the dust off my opinions and take them with a grain of old sea salt.
I've been reading some of the posts here regarding all the cool Gucci kit thats on the market, well there is some nice stuff out there being an old kit slut I've seen a bit here and there and have had plenty dig into my skin enough to respect all those that wear it in harms way or even out of it. And the '782 gear these days is lightyears ahead of what used to be issued, we bitched about it then and are still bitching. A bitching Marine is a happy Marine.
What's better, how someone modified it to be even better, etc, etc. all makes for interesting and sometimes humorous conversations.
But I gotta agree with the folks that are saying to stay with the government issue that is signed out to ya, no matter how it sucks, always better to look like the rest of the group, as individuals that stand out is a crowd don't normally stand for long when the proverbial turd is in the wind. Sticking out of the battlefield will likely get you more attention then you are really after.
Remember a guy named Custer? his fancy custom uniforms and long Blondie hair may have been great for bagging chicks, but it also got him added attention from the Indians too.
Besides why get all that Gucci kit covered in mud, blood and brains?
Besides it will fall apart, break, get lost, etc, no matter who made it. Remember its all Low Bidder, Do I think everyone in the Military (at least the military's that are on our side) deserves the very best money can buy, well Duh, of course you all and all of us did and do, is it a disgrace when Low Bidder is the one supplying the kit to the military of what ever nation your talking about, yes. But last I checked money still isn't growing on trees, well maybe in BC, and what little comes down into your pockets is hard earned to say the least spend is as you all see fit.
Just one old Marines opinion.
I've been reading some of the posts here regarding all the cool Gucci kit thats on the market, well there is some nice stuff out there being an old kit slut I've seen a bit here and there and have had plenty dig into my skin enough to respect all those that wear it in harms way or even out of it. And the '782 gear these days is lightyears ahead of what used to be issued, we bitched about it then and are still bitching. A bitching Marine is a happy Marine.
What's better, how someone modified it to be even better, etc, etc. all makes for interesting and sometimes humorous conversations.
But I gotta agree with the folks that are saying to stay with the government issue that is signed out to ya, no matter how it sucks, always better to look like the rest of the group, as individuals that stand out is a crowd don't normally stand for long when the proverbial turd is in the wind. Sticking out of the battlefield will likely get you more attention then you are really after.
Remember a guy named Custer? his fancy custom uniforms and long Blondie hair may have been great for bagging chicks, but it also got him added attention from the Indians too.
Besides why get all that Gucci kit covered in mud, blood and brains?
Besides it will fall apart, break, get lost, etc, no matter who made it. Remember its all Low Bidder, Do I think everyone in the Military (at least the military's that are on our side) deserves the very best money can buy, well Duh, of course you all and all of us did and do, is it a disgrace when Low Bidder is the one supplying the kit to the military of what ever nation your talking about, yes. But last I checked money still isn't growing on trees, well maybe in BC, and what little comes down into your pockets is hard earned to say the least spend is as you all see fit.
Just one old Marines opinion.
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Welcome Pappy. Just what we need, more of us old guys around here. ;D If you haven't already, have a gander at the forum rules and I'm sure you'll be fine.
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pappy
Guest
one question to Tacsit (sorry if spelling is off) nice shinny kit in the pics you posted, carried it far? 
No disrespect.... just asking.
I know your a 20-something, but if you want your knees to make it to 30 lighten that load up a tad.
I'm the type that likes to travel light, looks like why too much crap, what are you packing it there? I'm sure some of the folks here could go though the list of stull inside that and save you a little weight.
Looks pretty stuffed.... if you're gonna have room for the "motor bombs", etc etc shouldn't there be some empty space left once your personal gear, food, water is inside it?
I guess if the guys you bought it from said the Marines haven't broken it (yet.... haha we Marines can break almost anything) then it's tough...
"travel light, freeze at night"
Semper Fi.....
No disrespect.... just asking.I know your a 20-something, but if you want your knees to make it to 30 lighten that load up a tad.
I'm the type that likes to travel light, looks like why too much crap, what are you packing it there? I'm sure some of the folks here could go though the list of stull inside that and save you a little weight.
Looks pretty stuffed.... if you're gonna have room for the "motor bombs", etc etc shouldn't there be some empty space left once your personal gear, food, water is inside it?
I guess if the guys you bought it from said the Marines haven't broken it (yet.... haha we Marines can break almost anything) then it's tough...
"travel light, freeze at night"
Semper Fi.....
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10L of water?!
Can't you still AD REP water every day?Are not jerry cans still section stores to be carried by your QM?
Not hackin on your bag(looks good in a retarded cousin sorta way)but man,how much kit do you need?
And by the way,no "I don't ride in a truck"comments,I was'nt always a Cpl weapons tech........
Can't you still AD REP water every day?Are not jerry cans still section stores to be carried by your QM?
Not hackin on your bag(looks good in a retarded cousin sorta way)but man,how much kit do you need?
And by the way,no "I don't ride in a truck"comments,I was'nt always a Cpl weapons tech........
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