My new ruck

[tacsit]

Well, after a couple of months of drawing up plans, thinking about uniform nazis, and looking at what constitutes a good military ruck, I finally have a finished product. I give you, the 64 pattern frankenruck:

This ruck, as all can see, follows the basic 64 pattern ruck design. A medium sized sack on bottom, velise on top. I decided to go with the 64 pattern ruck design because it allows you to use the sack as a cargo shelf. You can keep mortar rounds, CarlG rounds, jerry cans, wounded pers., heck, almost anything you want on there and hump it fairly comfortably. That to me is one of the requirements of a military ruck. Far too many rucks these days are camping gear oriented, not designed for the efficient carrying of combat loads. I also like having a ruck that uses a velise. A velise enables you to section off gear as well as leaving your ruck outside the hootch/tent and just bringing your sleeping/snivel kit inside. Another big reason I went with the 64 pattern ruck is to assuage the feelings of all those small minded uniform nazis running around in the CF. Yes, if any of you are on this forum you know who you are. Hopefully this is 64 patterenish enough for those idiots. At the bottom here we have a Drop Zone Tactical 64 pattern modular sack, with DZs MULES mk.2 system of pouch attachment, which is PALS compatible. Above that is the CF issue velise. I'll probably be replacing that with a Canadian Peacekeeper CADPAT velise. Yeah yeah I know, many who have used it say it sucks, the compression straps are on wrong... well, in fact they aren't. It's better to compress the velis horizontally instead of vertically. that way it's still easy to lash down (not to mention, a CADPAT velise adds to the overall cam effect). Above the velise is the top lid from a Mystery Ranch DBSB ruck (the DBSB ruck was designed for the SEALS). The colour of the lid is what MR has dubbed "Titanium." Apparently it's a colour that takes well to spray paint, something I'll definitely be doing. A nice mix of OD and brown should work well on that. Of course I'll be hitting the buckles as well. The whole kit and kaboodle is attached to a MR NICE frame. I chose this frame for several reasons:

1.) It's adjustable, so I know I'll be able to get it to fit me;
2.) It's cheap. At $219 USD it's really not that bad a deal at all for what's pretty much a nice internal frame
3.) It can withstand the shock of airborne operations. Dana Sr. at MR has informed me that some Marines have been jump testing the NICE and it's held up very well.
4.) It's most likely comfy. Very comfy. Something borne out by those I've spoken with who have this frame.

I went with the DBSB top lid to add capacity to the pack. Normally the velise is secured to the ruck frame by two A7A straps. The top lid serves the same purpose while offering me two external pockets to stash some odds and ends. To the sack I will be adding 3 CADPAT TT large utility pouches. To the frame I'll be lashing my Ontario RTAK as well as a 10 liter MSR dromedary hydration bladder. My RAID pack will be kept lashed against the frame by the velise, thus keeping it easily accessible yet secure. The ruck is being mailed to me shortly (the above pics taken by the nice folks at MR). I'd like to thank both Brian Kroon at Drop Zone and Dana Sr. at Mystery Ranch for their help in this project. Once I get the pack and have everything sorted out on it, I'll hump the heck out of it and get back to ya'll with more pics, and an in depth review. Stay tuned...

 

[Fusaki]

Wow...

How much did that rig set you back? The pricetag, all said and done?

 

[KevinB]

helping this warrior get what he needed.

:

Sorry man I think you could have done better.

 

[tacsit]

You're just too high on Kifaru Kev... that's the problem with you Kifaru maniacs, always have your head in the clouds . Seriously bud, maybe you can get away with a Kifaru, but I wouldn't be able to. And like I said, I'm not going to shell out $700 CDN on a pack.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Different strokes for different folks.

There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to both systems.  Personally, what I'd love to see would be a similar setup on the Kifaru cargo hauler frame, but with some modifications.

The 64 bag would be a panel loader so you could access the contents without having to undo the valise. 

Rather than the BDSB lid, I'd prefer to have a patrol pack like the Kifaru Scout strapped on.

The Nice frame is certainly a step up from a 64 tubular frame or the Alice piece of crap (humped with way too many broken Alice frames to have any respect for that thing).  However there are a few things that I think make the Kifaru somewhat better:
Nice frame doesn't have a frame long enough to effectively use shoulder strap lifters on, and the waistbelt fared poorer in a comparison
http://lightfighter.net/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=2756008371&m=322101853&r=503103853#503103853

I talked to Mel at Kifaru about the possiblity of doing a similar setup and at this time, with their production already maxed out it's not really something they want to devote alot of R&D effort into.  Another thing is that this 64 pattern setup is pretty much unique to Canadians and since that is such a small market segment, it's probably not going to give them a good return on investment to produce a pack like this.

Kevin, how's that Marpat knock-off CFP-90 working out for you?  I'm using a 1st Gen Lowe Alpine Woodland CFP-90 (circa mid-80s) and that thing is pretty much at the end of it's life.  7 months in Iraq and exposed to constant sunlight an a nice marinade of various POLs have pretty much deteriorated the nylon in some spots.

 

[Armymedic]

As a MCpl uniform nazi, I feel the need to see how far my highly brush shone cbt boot will slide up your rectum. ...

Seriously, I love my jump ruck (64 pattern).

The addition of the lid looks a bit much, and the bag itself looks a bit small. My big concern, with the TV those hip pads probably won't fit/be confortable.

Positive, Shoulder and back pads look real good. The ability to customize outside pouches for ammo, food, and water looks good too.

Being light Medic, I have some different requirements then o31 types, but overall, I think it would work.

 

[tacsit]

Armymedic, now now, you wouldn't want those highly polished boots getting all dirty would you?  ;D. The lid is a great addition. I just got my ruck in the mail this morning and I love the lid. It was two zippered compartments, each of which can accomodate a 3 liter hydration bladder or other odds and ends. As well it has fold away shoulder straps so you can unsnap it from the ruck and use it as a small pack. The bag itself is actually 20% larger than the standard 64 pattern sack. As well, today I attached 3 CADPAT tactical tailor large utility pouches to the outside, each of which is larger than the external pockets on the standard 64 pattern sack. The TV is actually designed to accomodate a rucksack with a padded waistbelt. That was a big part of the design feature. If you examine the CTS website you'll see the new ruck has such a waistbelt and was designed to integrate with the TV. In any case, I wouldn't use the TV. My 2nd line is a mk.3 hellcat chest rig with CADPAT pouches on it. Rides nice and high, doesn't interfeer with the waistbelt on my ruck.

 

[JBP]

Hello folks,

Just a question. I was under the impression that anyone in the CF whether Reg force or Reserve, wasn't allowed to mix/match any civvy/custom stuff with thier military gear/combats/uniform... Has that changed? We're allowed to buy our own rucks?!?!?!

I would be happy if we can cause' man, I've heard the horror stories of those damn ruck sacs!!!

Joe

 

[KevinB]

Tac - I guess  ;D

From my prospective ArmyMedic hit the nail on the head with the hip belt - the top looks off balanced - I would have had a fatter bottom bag - especially if you want to do what you have stated with it.

The top pouch is a god awful colour too.

 

[tacsit]

Recruit Joe, there are a god awful number of NCOs and Officers in the CF who believe that uniformity is something that should be extended from the parade square to the field. These people are idiots in my opinion. The standard set by 3VP in Astan (boots black or green, load bearing kit either green or CADPAT, you look unmistakenly Canadian) is appropriate. These uniform nazis who think everybody should look the same in the field are morons who don't seem to understand that when you're in the field you are gambling with men's lives. As such you should give your troops every advantage possible to help them accomplish the mission. If that means a different ruck or chest rig (obviously at mil-spec quality and it can get the job done) then the troop should be allowed to wear it.

Kevin, it's actually not that unbalanced at all. Though with any pack more of the weight will be on top, which is how it should be. The bottom bag is pretty fat, believe me, especially with the external pouches I've added (and there's room for several more pouches lemme tell you). Yeah, I agree the top lid is ugly as sin, but that's where krylon comes in. A nice heavy coat of OD with some brown and it'll be good to go.

 

[KevinB]

Ah okay I guess the pic dont do it justice.

Recruit Joe: the blind adhearance to uniform rules is stupid - but I do question the validity of non-operational units running around like a 3 ring circus.
  Infantry units especially recce elements do not seem to fall into the CFès sphere of care for equipment purchase as a result many pieces of kit are ineffective.

 

 

[Armymedic]

Tacsit,
If you wiped your butt in a proper military manner as instructed to you on your BMQ, my boots won't get dirty.... ;D

You don't actually believe everything you read on the CTS site. Really, its a matter of fit. Being of short statue, my jump rucks hip strap runs over the lower pouches of the TV.  Larger padded straps would probable not fit around the 2 qt canteen, and other kit I keep in those lower pockets.

Recruit Joe: the blind adherence to uniform rules is stupid - but I do question the validity of non-operational units running around like a 3 ring circus.
Infantry units especially recce elements do not seem to fall into the CFs sphere of care for equipment purchase as a result many pieces of kit are ineffective.

While I agree that blind adherence of the rules of cbt dress during operations and deployments is inflexible, and specialized crews like recce, snipers, engineers, and even we medics should have some latitude towards the gear they use....
I feel if issued kit is effective, IE TV's (and I know how you love your chest rig), all our new clothing, then pers purchased kit should not be allowed. Also here in Canada, all units (PARTICULARLY RRESERVISTS) should be dictated to use what they are issued as to avoid looking like that circus you mention above.

The big question is: Where do we draw the line?

Saying that....Let me quote Maximus "on my command, unleash Hell"

STANDBY!                    GO!

 

[bossdog]

Good effort - you've gone further than most to try and find a better product for the troops.

 

[tacsit]

Wait a sec, that wasn't one of our PO checks! ;D. Ok, that's true, I don't really believe everything on the CTS site. Really I filter out 50% of the stuff on any DND site as bubkis, lol. I've tried on a friend's TV and it did indeed ride lower than the design parameters suggest. Another reason why I love my chest rig (I'lll have to post pics of it sometime in the near future). In any case, can you hitch up your TV, connect the wiastbelt, and let the TV ride on top of the padded straps? May not be perfect but could be the best option out there (short of purchasing your own 2nd line rig).

I disagree with you on your point that, "I feel if issued kit is effective, IE TV's (and I know how you love your chest rig), all our new clothing, then pers purchased kit should not be allowed. Also here in Canada, all units (PARTICULARLY RRESERVISTS) should be dictated to use what they are issued as to avoid looking like that circus you mention above." If issued kit is effective, that's wonderful. But if a soldier wants to spend his own cash on kit that will be BETTER THAN EFFECTIVE than more power to him, provided that kit falls within the confines of acceptability of kit. You ask yourself, where do we cross the line? Well, I've already written where the line should be, that established by 3VP during their tour in Astan. It worked for them, and if anybody can't easily identify those troops as Canadian than they need to either grow a brain or a new set of eyes. If you follow the benchmark 3VP set, then those warriors who are willing to go the extra mile to get kit that will help them will be happy, as will other like-minded NCOs and officers who don't necessarily want to get kit for themselves, but recognize that you can have freedom of choice with regards to kit without looking like a band of roving gypsies.

 

[JBP]

Well, thanks for the response folks!

From what I understand now, you're not really "suppose" to mix your gear or wear anything not issued by your unit/DND. But they accept it. Because they know sometimes the gear sucks, is old, or just doesn't fit every individual right. Or they might understand you wish to augument what you already have. I suppose I'll have to figure out what my Unit accepts when I start with them in Sept or Jan.

Thanks again, I like the flexibility.

Joe

 

[tacsit]

Recruit Joe, when you get to your unit, don't be surprised if some anal retentive idiots forbid you from wearing anything much of any non-issue kit. If you manage to score some NCOs or officers who are open minded then lucky you, but I wouldn't count on it.

In other news, I just finished putting on a coat of brown krylon on the top lid of my ruck. Going to buy some OD krylon tommorow at Canadian Tire. Also mounted three CADPAT TT large utility pouches onto the sack. There is mucho room for more pouches; I'll probably be mounting 2 2qt canteens onto the ruck. That way I'll have 4 qts on the sack, then 3 liters in the camelbak attached to my RAID pack. I'm going to get a Camelbak pakteen to either attach to the frame or keep on in the top lid so I have a bit of liquid I can drink on the move while wearing the ruck. Also I've lashed my RTAK on top of the sack lid vs. lashing it to the frame. Once I have everything done and done I'll take some more pics to throw up. I was looking forward to starting the T&E this weekend but I was in a bike accident yesterday so with my busted shoulder I can't hump much of anything just yet.

 

[Armymedic]

Recruit Joe, when you get to your unit, don't be surprised if some anal retentive idiots forbid you from wearing anything much of any non-issue kit. If you manage to score some NCOs or officers who are open minded then lucky you, but I wouldn't count on it.

Tac- be careful with you choice of wording. I am sure there are a couple of RSM in Petawawa who would have you skinned for the above comment. There are some who consider dress a cornerstone of discipline.

Not all members of the CF are as "free thinking".

 

[Infanteer]

As well, there are two sides to every story.  Some SNCO's will have very valid and credible reasons for restricting personal kit to some extent, I've seen some units show up looking like Gypsy side shows because there was no restraint in what they could bring to the field.  There is no point denigrating the professionalism of some SNCO's by labeling them as "idiots".

 

[axeman]

as a member of 3 PPCLI ive commonly had 2 sets of kit one for show and one for the field . . it really depend on your higher ups as to what all you can wear. we are currently  getting the new pattern kit. ie LBV  and all .  the 64 pattern ruck has been allowed  because our high amount of field time and also for our shorter members that the 84 would cripple by its poor design .{for the shorties}. as to this new pack well  like i said it all depends on your echelon  leaders. dont get too wild and it should be allowed.  :-\

 

[tacsit]

Armymedic, thanks for the concern. I also consider dress a cornerstone of discipline... when in garrison and on the parade square, but not as much when in the field. On to Infanteer's point, I'm not advocating everybody show up looking like a JTF-2 assaulter. I'm saying that the standard set forth by 3VP in Astan is the proper yardstick to use WRT non-issue kit. I am in no way denigrating those NCOs who use such a yardstick. But I will stick by my guns and say that any NCOs who forbidthe use of effective non-issue kit that falls within the lines set forth by 3VP in Astan are indeed idiots. They can skin me alive all they want, I frankly don't care. I care more about being combat effective than some people's parade ground mentality extended into the field. I understand my viewpoint is quite unorthodox compared to many CF members, but this is something I strongly believe in, so I'll stick with it.