Most dreadful PT experience

[4Feathers]

I remember during a run with our PPCLI Capt, he decided we would also  take in a swim, but as we swam in the cold mountain lake, we had to break the thin layer of ice in front of us. It did not last long, just long enough for hypothermia to set in for some. Did you know that frozen water actually feels very hot after a bit? We all survived (^:

 

[TimBit]

I remember during a run with our PPCLI Capt, he decided we would also  take in a swim, but as we swam in the cold mountain lake, we had to break the thin layer of ice in front of us. It did not last long, just long enough for hypothermia to set in for some. Did you know that frozen water actually feels very hot after a bit? We all survived (^:

Seriously? I think he could have been charged. There is no way that I can see such a thing being justified as combat readiness. When and why would you have to purposefully swim in a frozen lake in a combat situation. Never. Let's face it, never. If you ever cross a lake on a combat patrol and the ice breaks then that's called a problem. I don't think the patrol would continue. Gear would be lost, people would be unfit for combat and a medevac would be called in.

Now not sleeping on a course, marching 20 clicks in FBO and running 15 clicks in the morning, yeah sure: it does prepare you for the combat environment. Swim in a frozen lake? No. Readiness AND care of the troops are the primary duties of any superior. I find this one hard to look over.

Now you can flame me if you will.  anzer:

 

[Gunnar]

why would you have to purposefully swim in a frozen lake in a combat situation

When would you ever have to climb up a sheer cliff viewed as unclimbable using only ropes in a combat situation?

When would you ever march 3 miles up the middle of a freezing cold creek to take an enemy position?

Canadians have done both.

In a combat situation, anything that leads to the success of the mission goes.  The tradeoff is always whether or not the mission will succeed if you do it.  It might have been a bad idea for training, and I don't think it would be typical for a combat situation (you certainly wouldn't go for a pleasure swim in circles under these circumstances), but if it were necessary to cross a river because the nice warm bridge would bring your entire company under lethal fire, it might be worth the risk, if you could be reasonably certain that most of your men and materiel would survive to get the job done.

 

[Teeps74]

Hm, I can't help but remember a short nap I as a young Pte once took behind a C9, and then the neat words you used to wake me up and ask where my gun was.

Ah, the memories.  ;D

ROFL I have fallen asleep behind that thing too, and been woken up rudely... Course that size 10 to the back of the helmet sucked... But better then the charge I would have gotten lol.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Readiness AND care of the troops are the primary duties of any superior. I find this one hard to look over.

And here I mistakenly thought the accomplishment of the mission was a primary duty of a commander/leader...

A former RSM taught me the 3 Ms.

The Mission.
The Men.
Then Myself.

If (when I was army) one of my troops got cold or wet during the accomplishment of the mission, and didn't like it...well its a volunteer military we are in.  Subway is always looking for "Sandwich Artists".  I guess they can go work there.

When I was at CABC, we did the "lake run" one night (well, a few nights lol).  I am sure it wasn't a PO check on the course.  Should our Crse O have been charged for increasing our ability to perform thru PT? 

 

[TimBit]

And here I mistakenly thought the accomplishment of the mission was a primary duty of a commander/leader...

A former RSM taught me the 3 Ms.

The Mission.
The Men.
Then Myself.

If (when I was army) one of my troops got cold or wet during the accomplishment of the mission, and didn't like it...well its a volunteer military we are in.  Subway is always looking for "Sandwich Artists".  I guess they can go work there.

When I was at CABC, we did the "lake run" one night (well, a few nights lol).  I am sure it wasn't a PO check on the course.  Should our Crse O have been charged for increasing our ability to perform thru PT?

Sorry, I should have added "while in garrison", where readiness is the mission.

As for the swim...no problem with the swim. But in a frozen lake? Why?

 

[CorporalMajor]

Looks like my naivety has caught up with me again. Reconsidering my opinion, you guys are probably right.  It looks like if you want to make fighting men, you have to put them through some real shitty times, even if it means swimming in frigid waters....... (christ).

 

[Greymatters]

A former RSM taught me the 3 Ms.

The Mission.
The Men.
Then Myself. 

I would agree with the teaching but the order of practice is very dependent on the situation, for example:

Basic Training                      Home Base/Training                    Field Operations
Myself                                Men                                        Mission
Men                                  Mission                                    Men
Mission                              Myself                                    Myself

One thing you will notice here is that the men under your command should never be last...

 

[4Feathers]

Seriously? I think he could have been charged. There is no way that I can see such a thing being justified as combat readiness. When and why would you have to purposefully swim in a frozen lake in a combat situation. Never. Let's face it, never. If you ever cross a lake on a combat patrol and the ice breaks then that's called a problem. I don't think the patrol would continue. Gear would be lost, people would be unfit for combat and a medevac would be called in.

Now not sleeping on a course, marching 20 clicks in FBO and running 15 clicks in the morning, yeah sure: it does prepare you for the combat environment. Swim in a frozen lake? No. Readiness AND care of the troops are the primary duties of any superior. I find this one hard to look over.

Now you can flame me if you will.  anzer:

Yes, seriously. It was over 20 years ago though. For what it's worth, the Capt joined us in the water. He always did everything he made us do.

 

[Snaketnk]

I'm a little envious of the cold dip in the drink to be honest. Any experience is good experience.

 

[CorporalMajor]

I'm a little envious of the cold dip in the drink to be honest. Any experience is good experience.

........ at least after doing that, you won't be drowsy anymore.  :camo:

Ever took shower without any hot water?  I have, and man, you snap out fatigue pretty damn quick.

 

[Journeyman]

I'm a little envious ...... Any experience is good experience.

I can send you contact info for my ex-wife if you'd like  :stars:

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm a little envious of the cold dip in the drink to be honest. Any experience is good experience.

Any experience is a good experience...?....hmmmmm.....let me ponder that one! :

 

[Snaketnk]

Unless you're going to tell me you learned absolutely nothing and are a worse person/soldier because of it, I stand by my statement.

 

[421_434_226]

I guess mine was my first 10 or so PT periods after being posted to 1RCR in '88. This was after spending around 4 yrs at Base Maint Borden, the UWO grounds was where I learned how to run and puke at the same time. (to be truthful it was more of a zombie like shuffle/run for me) :-X

 

[stealthylizard]

For mine, other than the slight aside I mentioned earlier, it was every day of the first month of RFT.

 

[downhillslide]

I would agree with the teaching but the order of practice is very dependent on the situation, for example:

Basic Training                      Home Base/Training                    Field Operations
Myself                                Men                                        Mission
Men                                  Mission                                    Men
Mission                              Myself                                    Myself

One thing you will notice here is that the men under your command should never be last...
Concur.