Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more

[GnyHwy]

I am unaware of any actual wartime advance to contacts or raids conducted with mortars in trail by anyone.  I am aware of many combined exercises that Arty mortar troops have been involved with in training.  The short answer is yes, the Arty since recieving the mortars in the mid 90s has kept a light capabilty within the 3rd Bty IOT support the 3rd Btln of each Bde. 

As well, to the best of my knowledge I believe 2 RCHA is training a completely light mortar organization to include air mobile and jump capability. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

I am unaware of any actual wartime advance to contacts or raids conducted with mortars in trail by anyone.  I am aware of many combined exercises that Arty mortar troops have been involved with in training.  The short answer is yes, the Arty since recieving the mortars in the mid 90s has kept a light capabilty within the 3rd Bty IOT support the 3rd Btln of each Bde. 

As well, to the best of my knowledge I believe 2 RCHA is training a completely light mortar organization to include air mobile and jump capability.

We did it all the time in the Parachute Regiment. We were nothing special, other 'light' role infantry in the British Army frequently man packed their tubes.

All infantry battalions in the Falklands War man packed their tubes, with rifle coy troops carrying the ammo. The regiment did the same in many other 'small wars'.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Micheal
I was referring to the fact that it was likely the only thing that has really changed since the Infantry gave up it's tubes is the introduction of handheld GPS system being readily available. My limited understanding is that the laying and sights of the 81mm have not changed. I understand that doctrine has changed, but the technical process of preparing the tubes for action likely remains similar. If I am incorrect and a fundamental change has happen in the prepration for mortars to be setup and fired onto a target, I would be happy to be educated.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Micheal
I was referring to the fact that it was likely the only thing that has really changed since the Infantry gave up it's tubes is the introduction of handheld GPS system being readily available. My limited understanding is that the laying and sights of the 81mm have not changed. I understand that doctrine has changed, but the technical process of preparing the tubes for action likely remains similar. If I am incorrect and a fundamental change has happen in the prepration for mortars to be setup and fired onto a target, I would be happy to be educated.

No, the weapon and its drills have not changed. You comment just wasn't clear enough.

 

[vonGarvin]

I did my advanced mortar course in 2000, and the PLGR was available and was used for baseplate survey even way back in the last year of the 20th Century.

 

[GnyHwy]

To add to the GPS conversation.  The DAGR in advanced mode has a gun laying function for establishing an aiming point for orientation which is more accurate and reliable than a magnetic compass.

 

[KevinB]

Inf Pl's did have PLGR and VectorII Bino's last time I looked (2004)
Assuming (I don't interact with the CF these days) these have been upgraded to DAGR and whatever LRF is in service at the Pl Level, its not going to take a rocket scientist to lay a tube.

We had PLGR in Cyprus on the last Roto in 93 - so I would hope that it made it out to the Mortar Pl before the last tube was given away 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Courtesy of Defense Watch http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/blogs/defencewatch/default.aspx


From General Dynamics:

St Petersburg, Fla. - General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems, a business unit of General Dynamics (NYSE: GD),  announced today that it has successfully demonstrated a tactical version of the company's 120mm Roll Control Guided Mortar (RCGM) at Yuma Proving Grounds, Ariz. The testing was conducted under a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) with the U.S. Army Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center (ARDEC), Picatinny Arsenal, N.J.

The 120mm RCGM is a low-cost, guided mortar that provides precision-strike capability using standard M934A1 mortar components, GPS guidance, M734A1 fuze components and patented Roll-Controlled Fix Canard (RCFC) technology.

Live, tactical 120mm RCGM rounds where used in the demonstration and all of the rounds were successfully guided to within 10 meters of their target at ranges of 1,000 to 5,000 meters. The test demonstrated the RCGM capability in height-of-burst, point detonation and delay fuze modes, and demonstrated the rounds' ability to perform at hot, ambient and cold temperatures.
Michael S. Wilson, president of General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems, said, "These tests fully demonstrate the viability of our system with respect to accuracy, fuze reliability and enhanced lethality for the warfighter. By using existing warheads and fuzing, in concert with our innovative low-cost control and guidance system, we can offer a truly affordable precision mortar round for less than $10,000 per unit.

"This demonstration proves that the General Dynamics low-cost guided mortar is a viable competitive alternative which meets the Army's requirements for affordable precision

munitions," Wilson said.

 

[Infanteer]

While the posts are sometimes goofy, this British blog has a decent coverage of modern mortar systems.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/01/mortars/

 

[Kirkhill]

While the posts are sometimes goofy, this British blog has a decent coverage of modern mortar systems.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/01/mortars/

I think we need a battery or three of those Little David thingies in the video at the bottom.  The fire and retire drills should be interesting  >

 

[FoverF]

I think we need a battery or three of those Little David thingies in the video at the bottom.  The fire and retire drills should be interesting  >

What?
The?
Heck?

 

[Psyops]

While the posts are sometimes goofy, this British blog has a decent coverage of modern mortar systems.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/01/mortars/

I am the author of the recent piece on Mortars over at ThinkDefence, so I just thought I would stop by and say thanks for the link ! I am not, nor ever have been a "mortar man" - never played with anything bigger than a GPMG - but I was not an infanteer (Royal Corps of Signals, actually !)

ThinkDefence can be goofy, but I like to write articles that get people thinking, so that I can learn from the comments section - but I wish I had found this thread before writing my piece, loads of useful info !

Cheers

 

[GnyHwy]

You'll get plenty of action around here if you want to discuss/debate mortars and fire support.  Especially if you compare it to the Close Area Suppresion Weapon - 40mm AGL found here.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28805.0.html

Have a sift through there as well.  You will find something you are interested in for sure.

 

[Kirkhill]

New ammo for the 81mm

Does it change the discussion?  The 120mm "has" to be on wheels (both because of its own weight and the weight of a useful volume of ammunition.    The 81mm "can" be on wheels but can also be effectively employed without wheels.  This would reduce the weight of ammunition required to be useful would it not?

BAE Systems and General Dynamics Team to Develop Affordable ‘Smart’ 81mm Mortar Round

The world’s first precision 81mm guided mortar round


01 Feb 2012 | Ref. 19/2012

GLASCOED, United Kingdom – BAE Systems and General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems have teamed to develop, demonstrate, and produce the 81mm Roll Controlled Guided Mortar (RCGM), an affordable 81mm precision mortar round. The companies have been maturing the guided mortar technology over the last 12 months and will be conducting tactical demonstrations early in 2012.

The teaming arrangement between General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems, a business unit of General Dynamics and BAE Systems’ Munitions business, will leverage their respective strengths to provide a low-cost, highly affordable, precision mortar. The 81mm RCGM uses the current UK L41 round and US M734A1 fuze, but incorporates GPS guidance and General Dynamics’ patented Roll Controlled Fixed Canard (RCFC) technology to provide a precision strike capability.

“RCGM will put, for the first time, a low-cost indirect precision system into the hands of the front-line soldier, dramatically increasing his combat effectiveness,” said Ian Anderton, managing director of BAE Systems’ Munitions business. “The system’s increased accuracy will help bring effective fire on target quicker and the reduced number of rounds required for a typical mission will mean an approximate 30 percent reduction in logistics demands – an important consideration at the end of extended supply lines in theater.”

Michael Wilson, President of General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems said, “Our teaming with BAE Systems will provide the infantry with a lightweight, portable, precision strike capability based on General Dynamics’ innovative Roll Control Guided Mortar technology. By using existing warheads and fuzing with our low-cost control and guidance system, we can offer a truly affordable precision mortar round to the US, UK and allies across the world.”

For more information about General Dynamics

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect any improvements for the 81mm can be translated up to the 120mm. I am still of the opinion that 81mm should be given back to the infantry and if mortars are wanted for the artillery, then they should be 120mm or above. At the very least upgrade the infantry 60mm's with new ones.

Brainfart fixed.... :sorry:

 

[vonGarvin]

I suspect any improvements for the 81mm can be translated up to the 120mm. I am still of the opinion that 81mm should be given back the arty and if mortars are wanted for the artillery, then they should be 120mm or above. At the very least upgrade the infantry 60mm's with new ones.

As of right now, there are no mortars in the infantry. 

 

[dangerboy]

As of right now, there are no mortars in the infantry.

I am holding onto my firing tables for the 60mm, as I am praying that someone comes to their senses and they came back.  Hey it happened with the 50's.

 

[Old Sweat]

As of right now, there are no mortars in the infantry.

Which brings up the question how is the AGL working out? And, if the mortar is obsolete, which seemed to have been one of the selling points for the AGL, why are we still retaining them, and why did the gunners fire umpteen 81mm rounds in the Sandbox in support of the infantry?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I am holding onto my firing tables for the 60mm, as I am praying that someone comes to their senses and they came back.  Hey it happened with the 50's.

Infantry fitted for 60mm mortars, but not with...

No doubt some bright spark in NDHQ will come up with the idea of Fedexing the fuzed round to the target. My magic 8ball also predicts a superfast(superexpensive) quick purchase of 60mm when our next adventure steps deep into the poop.

I noted in "War without battles" the author noted that the UN opposed the Canadians taking their 81mm mortars with them to Bosnia as they were deemed to "offensive". Perhaps the 60mm can be presented as a "more peaceloving piece of equipment"  for future UN involvement.... ;D

 

[GK .Dundas]

Infantry fitted for 60mm mortars, but not with...

No doubt some bright spark in NDHQ will come up with the idea of Fedexing the fuzed round to the target. My magic 8ball also predicts a superfast(superexpensive) quick purchase of 60mm when our next adventure steps deep into the poop.

I noted in "War without battles" the author noted that the UN opposed the Canadians taking their 81mm mortars with them to Bosnia as they were deemed to "offensive". Perhaps the 60mm can be presented as a "more peaceloving piece of equipment"  for future UN involvement.... ;D

During the  Former Yugo fracas I suggested that we should have fitted every  Leo C1 with Dozer blades  and deployed them over there as Engineering vehicle (tracked) with Demolition package emplacement device (105 MM) L-7.