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More "Army" in Army Cadets (combat training, etc.)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sgt O`Hara
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So, let me get this straight ...
Those who advocate combat training for cadets are willing to defy the U.N.?
Grow up.

United Nations - Child Soldiers

CHILD SOLDIERS: AN AFFRONT TO HUMANITY
One of the most alarming trends relating to children and armed conflicts is their participation as active soldiers. Children as young as 8 years of age are being forcibly recruited, coerced and induced to become combatants. Manipulated by adults, children have been drawn into violence that they are too young to resist and with consequences they cannot imagine.
The children most likely to become soldiers are from impoverished and marginalized backgrounds or separated from their families. Children from wealthier and more educated families are often left undisturbed or are released if their parents can ransom them back.

Child soldiers are recruited in many different ways. Some are conscripted, others are press-ganged or kidnapped, and still others are forced to join armed groups to defend their families. In many instances, recruits are arbitrarily seized from the streets, or even from schools and orphanages, when armed militia, police or army cadres roam the streets, picking up anyone they encounter. Hunger and poverty may drive parents to offer their children for service; armies may even pay a child soldier‘s wage directly to the family. And parents may encourage their daughters to become soldiers if their marriage prospects are poor.

Sometimes, children become soldiers simply in order to survive. Indeed, a military unit can be something of a refuge, serving as a kind of surrogate family. Children may join if they believe that this is the only way to guarantee regular meals, clothing or medical attention.

Children are also used as soldiers in support functions such as cooks, porters, messengers and spies. While these may seem to be less harmful, these functions entail great hardship and risk bringing all children under suspicion. Reports tell of forces deliberately killing even the youngest children on the grounds that they were dangerous. For girls, their participation often entails being forced to provide sexual service. While children of both sexes might start out in indirect support functions, it does not take long before they are placed in the heat of the battle, where their inexperience and lack of training leave them particularly vulnerable.


At the age of 13, I joined the student movement. I had a dream to contribute to make things change, so that children would not be hungry.... Later I joined the armed struggle. I had all the inexperience and the fears of a little girl. I found out that girls were obliged to have sexual relations to alleviate the sadness of the combatants. And who alleviated our sadness after going with someone we hardly knew?... There is a great pain in my being when I recall all these things.... In spite of my commitment, they abused me, they trampled my human dignity. And above all, they did not understand that I was a child and that I had rights. (From a Honduras case study)


Preventing the future use of children in armed conflict

Building on the principles of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, a number of organizations are working to raise the minimum age for recruitment and participation in armed forces to 18 years. In 1994, a United Nations working group was established to develop an Optional Protocol to the Convention in order to achieve this.

Several measures have been identified which can reinforce the local capacity to minimize or prevent the use of children as soldiers. For example, local communities should be made more aware of national and international laws governing the age of recruitment. Non-governmental organizations, religious groups and civil society in general can play important roles in establishing ethical frameworks that characterize children‘s participation in armed conflicts as unacceptable. In Peru, forced recruitment drives have declined where parish churches have denounced the activity. In El Salvador, Guatemala and Paraguay, ethnic groups and the mothers of child soldiers have formed organizations to pressure authorities for the release of under-age soldiers. Another important preventive measure is the active and early documentation and tracing of unaccompanied children in refugee or displaced persons camps. Locating refugee camps far from conflict zones can also reduce the chance of children being enticed or recruited into warring groups.
 
Originally posted by D-n-A:
[qb] if cadets want to know what combat training is, the best way is to set up something with their affliated reserve unit

the cadets an reserves can go out to a training area, and the reserves can do a section attack

and have the cadets on the sideline watching [/qb]
There is a problem with that. Not all Reserve units do section attacks. We do recce patrols, road moves, occupy hides.
 
Originally posted by Eowyn:
[qb]
Originally posted by D-n-A:
[qb] if cadets want to know what combat training is, the best way is to set up something with their affliated reserve unit

the cadets an reserves can go out to a training area, and the reserves can do a section attack

and have the cadets on the sideline watching [/qb]
There is a problem with that. Not all Reserve units do section attacks. We do recce patrols, road moves, occupy hides. [/qb]
Which is all valid "combat" training. We had our cadets come out and watch us do a live fire shoot with the guns. Mind you they had to be about 50m back of the guns.. but they were there.

I don‘t think however, that the cadets should actually be taught these things. The discipline isn‘t there for most of these kids, and I shudder to think what they might do if they were taught something like section attacks.
 
Originally posted by Ex-Dragoon:
[qb] 3005_ MWO...we have have had Sea Cadets with us on things like soverignity (sp) patrols and coastal watch exercises and while they didn‘t fire the guns we have had them sit on the radar and do general seamanship duties. [/qb]
That‘s actually really cool :) I know the occassional cadet gets deployed (Senior Cadet goes on board a ship, and gets some basic...boatswain training, I think...I‘ll look into it. But the rough equiv. would be like an army cadet doing Para, except the Sea Cadet doesn‘t get any official qualification I don‘t think), but it‘s getting rarer and rarer, and it also depends on where the units are located (i.e. Central vs. Pac vs. Atlantic)

CH
 
Eowyn: that is true, but every soldier should know how to do a section attack, it was taught on the older QL2 course, an now the SQ course. And I believe its also in the Warrior Course.

Kurokaze: I agree with you that cadets shouldent be taught this stuff, but I dont see any harm in letting them watch a section attack. Maybe pass around somones webbing, an they get to feel how heavy, show off some of the kit.
 
I‘m all for that, handing around the kit, etc....I know some schools run a "Soldier for a Day" program out here, for those 16+....I didn‘t go on it, but it sounded interesting.

Maybe run a Cadets-to-Reserves Information night for cadets 16+ (or information weekend...bring them out to the bush).

CH
 
The idea of holding a day of famil trg with the affiliated unit is good, except for the fact that not all units want to support their corps in that way, and simply don‘t.

Bossi...thanks for that last post.
 
OK. I think we‘ve heard enough on this topic. It‘s been beaten to death. For those of you just catching up I‘ll summarize and then close the thread.

1. Some Army Cadets would like to do more Amry like training. In some instances this is good (ie. Map and Compass, First Aid etc...) In some instances this is bad (ie. Section Attacks, unarmed Combat, etc...)

2. Canada has agreed to the Geneva Convention, therefore you will not see Cadets taking training that is similar to Combat training. It is illegal and if units are doing this they are beaking the law.

3. There are lots of opportunities to create interest in the military without breaking the law, small arms training under strict supervision, field craft, map and compass, etc.. are all good examples. The onus is on the individual Cadet Corps and or Affiliated Units to encourage these activities.

4. If you personally feel that you "have" to be taught these skills (Combat oriented) then when you turn 16, hit up your parents to sign a permission form and go apply to join your local Reserve Unit. Until then try to get the most you can out of the Cadet Unit you are with.

The end.
 
I am just trying to say that we should be shooting 303‘s and the fn again. I remind you that when we did do these things the #‘s in cadets reached the hundred thousands and they would again is we did more stuff like that,we arnt even allowed to do recce‘s or patrols anymore like wtf....
 
O‘Hara,
You wonder why people get PO‘d at some cadets, and then it washes over all of them. This topic was beat to death and closed by the Moderator. Low and behold, you need your extra two cents, so you reopen it. It was closed BY A MODERATOR. Get over it!
 
Army Cadets- Why don't we do section tactics on FTXs?
Im wondering if their is CATOs restricting this and if so whats the number?
 
Why would you need to do a section attack?  I don't know if anyone told you this...but you're kids...not soldiers.

Cadets is meant to teach leadership, confidence, make new friends etc etc.  You're not there to learn how to fight.
 
Yes, there are restrictions on what cadets can do during training in regards to what you are talking about.  There are activities your unit can do for CF familiarization and it is your training officer that plans it.  It is more a question for your chain of command.  Take note of what the scope of the cadet program is before asking your NCO's in order to be taken seriously.
 
They used to do them back when I was in (71-77)  The senior cadets would get to go on Ex with the regiment as well. Things have changed I guess.
 
Instead of copying and pasting all the international laws that contraindicate this, I'll just leave this here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children

It's wikipedia, but it's a good jumping off point for relevant international law and treatise that outline why Canada does not teach it's children to fight war.

You really want to serve? Then you can join the reserves when you're 16.
 
Prototype said:
You really want to serve? Then you can join the reserves when you're 16.

Or if you can't wait that long, Somalia is always up for new recruits... along with DRC and Sierra Leone  ::)
 
Prototype said:
Instead of copying and pasting all the international laws that contraindicate this, I'll just leave this here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children

It's wikipedia, but it's a good jumping off point for relevant international law and treatise that outline why Canada does not teach it's children to fight war.

You really want to serve? Then you can join the reserves when you're 16.

I was thinking of posting the same.

And since I tend to ramble on - diluting the point - Much Thanks
 
RCDcpl said:
Why would you need to do a section attack?  I don't know if anyone told you this...but you're kids...not soldiers.

Cadets is meant to teach leadership, confidence, make new friends etc etc.  You're not there to learn how to fight.

You were never in Cadets were you? Either that or you Corps really sucked.

Just curious why people have to dump all over Cadets all the time? Sure they ask bone questions a lot of the time, but mostly its because they're keen. Give the kid a break. He wants to be like YOU!

As for section attacks in Cadets, I did em (1990-1997) and myself and senior Cadet NCO's went on Field exercises with our regiments on a regular basis. But back then we also had our own armory filled with FN C1A1's and full bore .308 Lee Enfields and shot till we were blue in the face. Most of this was down to the fact that our Corps was well endowed in the finance department thanks to an active Parents comity, but we had to get permission to spend that money the way we did. It was common practise for Cadet Corps to emulate as close as possible their parent regiments  and thus would train in a military manner. Hell, when I was 16 I could completely disassemble (100%... not field strip here) an FN blind folded, and then reassemble it no problem.

I'm not sure why there is such an anti-military attitude with Cadets now? If that's the way we think about the organization as Canadians these days, then whats the point of even having them wear a uniform or be affiliated to any military unit? If it is just about Leadership, confidence and Map and Compass, then there are other non-military organizations for this: Scouts and Venturers

Personally, the reason I joined Cadets instead of Venturers was because I wanted to be in the Military, but as I was just a wee lad still, Cadets would have to do. And it did. Come to think of it, I distinctly remember the local Cadet Corps (Oshawa) pulling security along side the Ontario Reg. guys during Canada Day down at the lake (Talking '80's here).

All that said, I am sad to say that toward the end of my day things like field Ex's with the regiment and shooting real weapons were quickly going the way of the Dodo. From what I hear now, airguns are where its at with most Corps and Lee Enfields for the ranges...maybe. No FN's, which is a shame because like it or not, I was taught how to not only shoot (which by the way, I still can...and well) but more importantly how to properly handle and respect a firearm.

However, referring to OP, if your senior NCO's and CO are supportive and you also have the support of your Parent Reg. then I do not see why you would not practice Section attacks and the like.
I can tell you that had we not had support from our Parent Reg. we most likely would not have done a lot of the amazing things we got to do. Creating a good, solid relationship with those guys is definitely the key.
My :2c:
JB
 
Perhaps you should go back and read the Mission Statement of the Army Cadets:

The Royal Canadian Army Cadets appeal to teenagers craving exciting outdoor activities where their personal limits as individuals and team-members will be tested. The hardcore outdoor-oriented will love the challenge!

Army cadets develop abilities in the use of map and compass, GPS technology, orienteering, first-aid, camping and survival skills, canoeing, abseiling, trekking, mountain biking, etc. As they get more experienced, some will be selected for parachuting, white-water rafting and glacier climbing. They will also learn to become outdoor leaders.



Army Cadets get involved in ceremonial military events and citizenship activities that allow them to connect to their Canadian heritage. They develop a great sense of pride and discipline through their involvement in a hierarchical system that allows them to hone their leadership skills as they grow older and they learn to care for younger cadets.



In addition to their specialty training, Army Cadets may become involved in other exciting activities like competitive Olympic-style marksmanship and biathlon, sports competitions, music training and competitions, cultural outings, volunteer community support, etc.

Canada represents the best playground for teenagers interested in the outdoors. We are the organization of choice for teens and adults interested in getting out of the classroom to explore the planet the way it should be.

Join the reserves if you want begin to learn The Profession of Arms.
 
JB 11 11 said:
You were never in Cadets were you? Either that or you Corps really sucked.

Just curious why people have to dump all over Cadets all the time? Sure they ask bone questions a lot of the time, but mostly its because they're keen. Give the kid a break. He wants to be like YOU!

As for section attacks in Cadets, I did em (1990-1997) and myself and senior Cadet NCO's went on Field exercises with our regiments on a regular basis. But back then we also had our own armory filled with FN C1A1's and full bore .308 Lee Enfields and shot till we were blue in the face. Most of this was down to the fact that our Corps was well endowed in the finance department thanks to an active Parents comity, but we had to get permission to spend that money the way we did. It was common practise for Cadet Corps to emulate as close as possible their parent regiments  and thus would train in a military manner. Hell, when I was 16 I could completely disassemble (100%... not field strip here) an FN blind folded, and then reassemble it no problem.

I'm not sure why there is such an anti-military attitude with Cadets now? If that's the way we think about the organization as Canadians these days, then whats the point of even having them wear a uniform or be affiliated to any military unit? If it is just about Leadership, confidence and Map and Compass, then there are other non-military organizations for this: Scouts and Venturers

Personally, the reason I joined Cadets instead of Venturers was because I wanted to be in the Military, but as I was just a wee lad still, Cadets would have to do. And it did. Come to think of it, I distinctly remember the local Cadet Corps (Oshawa) pulling security along side the Ontario Reg. guys during Canada Day down at the lake (Talking '80's here).

All that said, I am sad to say that toward the end of my day things like field Ex's with the regiment and shooting real weapons were quickly going the way of the Dodo. From what I hear now, airguns are where its at with most Corps and Lee Enfields for the ranges...maybe. No FN's, which is a shame because like it or not, I was taught how to not only shoot (which by the way, I still can...and well) but more importantly how to properly handle and respect a firearm.

However, referring to OP, if your senior NCO's and CO are supportive and you also have the support of your Parent Reg. then I do not see why you would not practice Section attacks and the like.
I can tell you that had we not had support from our Parent Reg. we most likely would not have done a lot of the amazing things we got to do. Creating a good, solid relationship with those guys is definitely the key.
My :2c:
JB

Emphasis mine. UN Security Council Resolution 1261 was passed in 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1261

As I understand it, cadets are no longer allowed to shoot at targets that have a human silhouette pictured on it, because this is "conditioning" a minor to kill.

I don't know why it's hard for anybody to guess why it would be frowned upon by the international community if we had 12 year olds practicing section attacks ::) I mean, section attacks have a variety of purposes other than killing a human being that a cadet might find useful right?


As for why people in the military have a negative stigma against cadets, there's enough discussion on that in some of the recruiting threads if you're actually interested in finding out.
 
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