Mess dues preauthorized withdrawals

[Hunter]

Recently at my reserve unit it was announced that going forward the only way to pay mess dues (Holland Armouries mess in Ottawa) is by signing a form authorizing a monthly withdrawal from our bank accounts. My understanding of the explanation was that this is due to management of mess dues being transitioned to NPF. According to the explanation provided,,we must sign a form authorizing a $5 monthly withdrawal from our bank account, that this is the new standard for all messes across Canada, and that there is no other option for payment of mess dues such as an annual cash payment in full.

The issue is causing much consternation among the jr ranks at my unit, but I've heard nothing about this from members of any other unit. I'm interested to know if anyone can confirm or refute this.

 

[Sigs Pig]

In Wpg, I signed a form at stand-up allowing the deduction (for dues) come off of my pay. I think it was a one shot deal.

ME

 

[Harris]

I can state 100% that this has not been implemented at Camp Aldershot in NS.  We signed a form that has our mess dues come off our pay twice a month years ago.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Look, if you guys (and gals) want to play games, you can always refer your NPF Officer to this, section 8 to the Currency Act, RSC 1985 c. C-52. It has not been amended yet (and never will be): Legal Tender.

"Legal Tender

8. (1) Subject to this section, a tender of payment of money is a legal tender if it is made

(a) in coins that are current under section 7; and

(b) in notes issued by the Bank of Canada pursuant to the Bank of Canada Act intended for circulation in Canada.

Limitation

(2) A payment in coins referred to in subsection (1) is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins:

(a) forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars;

(b) twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar;

(c) ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar;

(d) five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and

(e) twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent. "

What it means is that it is illegal for anyone in Canada to refuse payment in cash made in Canadian money. (you might have to report the transaction under the Proceeds of crimes act, but I rather doubt your mess bills exceed $10,000 ). They can refuse cheques, credit card even debit cards, but they cannot refuse cash.

So just ask your NPF O to provide you with the law whereby the Government of Canada excused the CF from this law. (And note here, only a law can override another law - not rules, regulations or practices etc.)

It is up to you guys if you want to raise a ruckus.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

OGB- you are one evil lawyer.

I like it.  >

 

[Robert0288]

This sounds like shenanigans, and I personally wouldn't like having any government group being allowed to reach into the my bank account, especially given all the horror stories you hear about the pay system. 

Previously at MHA we just authorized the mess payment out of the paycheck over the course of the year.  I don't see why this would change, and if I was still there I would probably just go and pay in cash for the year. 

 

[a_majoor]

Is this in addition to whatever preauthorized payments that are going in as mess dues or changing the way mess dues are being administered? I have heard nothing about this here in Kingston.

Truthfully, doing a preauthorized monthly deduction is less of a headache since I am rarely in Kingston anyway, and have little or no reason to go to an empty building in the times I am there. While dropping off $16 in loonies every month might provide a certain amount of personal satisfaction watching their conniptions, ultimately it is just an expenditure of time and effort I could be using for something more useful.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Recently at my reserve unit it was announced that going forward the only way to pay mess dues (Holland Armouries mess in Ottawa) is by signing a form authorizing a monthly withdrawal from our bank accounts. My understanding of the explanation was that this is due to management of mess dues being transitioned to NPF. According to the explanation provided,,we must sign a form authorizing a $5 monthly withdrawal from our bank account, that this is the new standard for all messes across Canada, and that there is no other option for payment of mess dues such as an annual cash payment in full.

The issue is causing much consternation among the jr ranks at my unit, but I've heard nothing about this from members of any other unit. I'm interested to know if anyone can confirm or refute this.

the reason why your reserve unit is doing this is because members are supposed to pay their mess fees at the beginning of the training year but they hee and haw over spending $35 or whatever for the whole year and the mess committee spends the next year trying to track them down to pay it.  It's important because mess's use that initial burst of cash to buy stock.

Reserve units however always pull shit like this where they make up "rules" that's an over night policy.

Awesome post OGB!

 

[dapaterson]

My understanding is that RPSR provides very little information in its remittances, so messes have difficultly reconciling payments through RPSR to individuals who pay.  This method is easier for the messes.

Of course, fixing the pay system to provide a nominal roll with each payment would be too easy; instead, the NPF empire wants to get its fingers into people's bank accounts.

 

[Tibbson]

And the way the reserve system seems these days I can just see some reservist releasing and then fighting for years to get NPF to stop taking the payments.

 

[Harris]

My understanding is that RPSR provides very little information in its remittances, so messes have difficultly reconciling payments through RPSR to individuals who pay.  This method is easier for the messes.

Not sure how other locations do it, but I have personally seen cheques from CFB Greenwood, submitted to the Unit Mess for deposit, with an attached list of names printed onto the cheque stub(s).

 

[Nfld Sapper]

My mess dues come directly off my pay each pay period.....

 

[CountDC]

Funny reading back through some of the posts here.

As this is the only thread that came up when I searched for RPSR mess dues I will ask here.  Does anyone happen to know a simple way to get a report out of RPSR that reflects everyone in the unit that has an entry for mess due deductions?  So far I have found one report that only reflects payments that have come out in a specific pay period which does not provide the information needed. If the member already had the full years mess dues deducted or doesn't have any attendance for the period they will not show on this report even though they have an entry in the system to deduct mess dues.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And the way the reserve system seems these days I can just see some reservist releasing and then fighting for years to get NPF to stop taking the payments.

You contact the bank and put a stop on the payment. Do it as part of your out clearance. Let NPF worry about their own records after that.

 

[sandyson]

A 'stop payment' will cost you at least $10.  That's significant to a student.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A 'stop payment' will cost you at least $10.  That's significant to a student.

Not as much as spending a year fighting with NPF, then trying to recoup your money.

 

[CountDC]

well as the out topic was raised again.

First would be to tell them to pound sand as they are not getting anything authorizing a withdrawal from the bank account.  Then complete the mess deduction form to have mess dues deducted direct from your pay not your bank account.  When you clear out of the unit part of the process should be going over your pay and putting an end date for any automatic deductions such as mess dues.  No fight with NPF needed.

RPSR does provide a detailed print out with the mess dues showing the mbr and the amount so the committee and NPF when it gets in there should be able to track.

last time I heard the poor student argument in regards to a mess was a Cpl with 2 beers in his hand bragging about how drunk he got last weekend and how he was looking forward to the next weekend. A minute later he complained about spending $20 for the year on mess dues as a poor starving student.  :facepalm: :rofl:

Students are always poor.....until they get a family and learn what it's really like to be poor.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

<snip>  A minute later he complained about spending $20 for the year on mess dues as a poor starving student.  :facepalm: :rofl:

That is some cheap mess dues... I pay $18/month

 

[CountDC]

That was in the early 90's.