Medics in Afghanistan on frontline

[medicineman]

I doubt you would dispute my position that most medics consider a task as a platoon/company medic highly undesirable...

That's a real pity - my favorite times as a medic were at the platoon/company or small unit level.  In fact, I think it's the best job in the Army.  I'm not going to get many (if any) chances as a PA to do that stuff anymore.

My $0.02.

MM

 

[xo31@711ret]

Agree medicineman; my best times as a 'med a' were as a company and battery medic. maybe it's just me, but I found it an honour  that everyone from the company commander to the new pte refers to you by 'doc' and not by rank. I also enjoyed my time as the snr NCO of a UMS or tmt room, but the best time for me was a company or battery medic.

 

[Trinity]

I spent 8 years as a medic attached to infantry

Wouldn't have had it any other way.

 

[PQLUR]

Would that be 8 yrs. as a R711 and attached for some wknd FTX's?, or 8 yrs. full time (just wondering, but I am sincerely glad you enjoyed your time).

I spent 8 years as a medic attached to infantry

Wouldn't have had it any other way.

 

[Trinity]

As per my profile... reserve time.

Doesn't lessen the experience IMO.  Beats playing up tent down tent in a Med Coy...

 

[xo31@711ret]

tent down tent in a Med Coy...LOL LOL; agreed Trinity, spent my first 6 years in the infantry (good times also); "...up pole, pull pole....great coats on, great coats off...get on the bus, get off the bus....hurry up and wait...."  .....seems nothing changes with the passage of time or what trade you are  ;D

 

[PQLUR]

"The training, everything else, everything just becomes automatic and you almost don't think. It's one step after the other after the other.  And you only stop and think about it once everything's done and he's evacuated," as quoted from the following article:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061223/landmine_afghan_061223/20061225?hub=CTVNewsAt11

 

[bisonmedic]

I have a response to the comment that Gunner98 made about having the role 1 med-techs having a tour of the role3 mmu and it being an eye opener. As a role 1 patrol medic, I would say that have a role 3 medic take a tour of my AOR. I don't disagree that they do great work over there, but when was the last time they where in a firefight or ambush? We have lost two good medics during our tour( Boomer Roto 1 and Glenn Roto 2) and have had several injured during combat operations. The dismounted medics, the bison crews, the prt patrol medics have all put their asses on the line for the combat troops and keep them alive for the role 3 so they can work their magic. We know the things the role 3 has to deal with because we are the ones that sent them there to get further help, we don't need an eye opener from them. We have had enough from the enemy thank you very much. All we have to help our fellow soldiers is what we carry on our back, and that's it. Nothing fancy, just stuff that works and a little imagination from a field medic.

 

[Fraser.g]

I believe there would be good value in the trade off going both ways. It is not about who's job is harder or more stressfull but more about the medical staff at the Role 3 getting a better understanding of the environment the casualties come from. Simultaneously, it would be beneficial for the medics in the field to see where the casualties are going so as to better prep them.

It is about the whole evac chain and team work. Each has a job to perform and the better each member of that team understands the job of the other the better the team works.

 

[bisonmedic]

That's right, the role 3 types don't understand the environment the patient came from or the problems we face as the role 1 medics. The problem is that the hospital medics do not get the same kind of opportunities as the FD AMB medics get. I have nothing against the medics at the MMU, but you have to realize that we do not need a visit to the role 3 for an "eyeopener". We know what they can do, we have seen the results by simply having the patient go home alive or back to the Coy he came from. At the same time you have to realize what the mounted and dismounted medics from role 1 have gone through this tour. We don't need anymore eyeopeners.

 

[Gunner98]

The Role 3 Med Techs are replacing the Role 1 Med Techs on a regular basis during tours and are filling several of their tasks for the next few deployments (including OMLT). I think the Role 3 Med Techs have a very good understanding of the Role 1 Med Tech role as many/most of them came from the Fd Ambs and are returning to the Fd Ambs as supervisors.

My comment about eye-opening involves the full spectrum of care including beside care for military as well as Afghans. 

I was not suggesting that those on the current tour require an eye-opener, however, Med Techs specifically from Fd Amb in general should be more aware of the bells and whistles at the Role 3.

 

[HCA123]

Just as a follow up to Gunner98's post - we are telling medics scheduled for 1-08 that in the end they might be placed in the TO&E as role 3 - but expect to be role 1 at some point. There were requests "can I get a role 3 spot on the tour" and they were quickly given a reality check - because anyone going over has to be prepared to do either the role 1 or 3 jobs.

 

[Fraser.g]

Sorry,

From your responce I get the feeling that you are saying that you can learn nothing from the Role 3 medics but they have tonnes to learn from you.

I disagree,

Yes, the environment that the Role 1 crew work in is more austere and those who spend their tour at KAF have a more comfortable tour than on the other side of the wire.
Agreed, you do not need an "eye opener" but spending some time in the other man's shoes is never a bad thing. There are different challenges facing those at the Role 3 than the Role 1 but perhaps you could pick up a few tips and techniques from the Role 3.
There is a reason that the SF crew come in and "help out"

Your call

 

[bisonmedic]

Well I have yet to see a medic from role 3 out here, maybe they did a convoy task once or twice, but nothing out to where the stuff happens. As for bells and whistles, we have our fair share of high priced machines that go " Bing". In our UMS not only do we provide patrol medics, we do the things you would normally do at the role3. We do it because the role 3 does not want to do it for us. And saying that they have a good understanding of what we do is out of line. As for treating the local population, come down to where we are because we are eyeballs deep with the treatment of locals. Unless you are one of the fd amb medics currently on tour, you don't know anything about our job. We can do both roles thank you very much, without role 3 help. :threat:

 

[Fraser.g]

I did not say that the role 3 crew understand your job, I am also saying that the reverse is true.

What I am stating is that rotating through each others position may be beneficial.
I just got back from KAF and so do have some idea what is going on over there.
Check my bio and name, you may then get an understanding of where I am coming from.

Is it so terrible to state that each may have something to learn from the other? If you don't believe so, then thank god it's getting to the end of your time.

 

[GO!!!]

What I am stating is that rotating through each others position may be beneficial.

Beneficial to whom?

It takes weeks to get a patrol medic up to speed with the unit they will be working with in the light infantry context, and it takes that medic a few tries to get their distribution of kit, personal gear and weapons to where they need to be - just like the rest of us.

It is hard enough to find fit, aggressive field - minded medics to accompany Light Infantry Platoons and Companies - now you want to rotate them in and out so that some percieved "well rounded" benefit will occur?

How about corporate knowledge, knowing the men in your unit, esprit de corps, skill at arms and cohesion? Are these secondary to "having a more comfortable tour"?

 

[Gunner98]

  Well I have yet to see a medic from role 3 out here, maybe they did a convoy task once or twice, but nothing out to where the stuff happens. As for bells and whistles, we have our fair share of high priced machines that go " Bing". In our UMS not only do we provide patrol medics, we do the things you would normally do at the role3. We do it because the role 3 does not want to do it for us. And saying that they have a good understanding of what we do is out of line. As for treating the local population, come down to where we are because we are eyeballs deep with the treatment of locals. Unless you are one of the fd amb medics currently on tour, you don't know anything about our job. We can do both roles thank you very much, without role 3 help. :threat:

I guess it is a good thing that you can't tell one Med Tech from another out at the front. The Role 3 guys don't have a big sign on them that say they are Role 3.  They have been for several Rotos, are now and will continue to be employed out at the front lines.  I guess the point lost on you is that a Med Tech that has served at both Fd Amb and Role 3 has a broader skill set than one who has not been posted to both.  The Role 3 Med Techs are also backfilling for the patrol Medics at their chain of command's request and for HLTA.  If you wish to PM I can give you more specific info.  Keep up the good work, all of you.

 

[bisonmedic]

Like I said before, we do both jobs not only here, but in garrison as well. If the role 3 types have been on the front line, why then don't we have more of them out here ? As for rotating medics during a tour, by all means, the problem is well stated by GO!!!. The medics we have now have been with combat arms units for a fair amount of time and have a good skill set thanks to the unit that they serve. To take a medic from outside causes headaches for that group. Learning how to survive the battlefield does not happen in weeks, it takes more time than they can afford while deployed, especially here. 

 

[Gunner98]

Truth is that there aren't as many Reg Force Role 3 or Role 1 Med Techs as you might wish for left for next few deployment.  There is only one Role 3 unit with less than 80 Med Techs, there are 3 Fd Ambs to draw from for Role 1.  Many Med Techs have deployed or are deploying for a second or third time to A'stan. 

On many Bases like Pet (as of 12 Jan 07) and Edmonton CDUs are now the norm.  The Fd Ambs and Med Techs belong to the HSGs, so that integration is getting even harder.

I agree with your ideals, however, reality is and always will be somewhat different.

 

[bisonmedic]

The only saving grace for the medics at both the fd amb and the field hospital is the pending merger of medics. From what I hear, the 1CFH will be closed. C-Med will watch over the kit, and 2FD Amb will grow from 300 to 600 pers, making it a med support regt. In a way this can solve manpower issues depending on how they do it. If it happens, I hope to heck they do it right. We all need more people for the current ops and whatever happens down the road.