Medical Services restructuring...

[combat_medic]

This is a question I‘m putting out not only to the other medics out there, but with anyone who has had some recent experience with this:

Recently the CF medical trades all banded together to form the Canadian Forces Medical Group, and then separated from the army to become their own branch, like Comms did (lame, I know). As you can imagine, this restructure has created an enourmous hassle, especially for medics who aren‘t in Medical Companys but are in combat arms units or other non-medical units.

I‘m trying to find out how this restructuring nonsense has affected the medics in these units. I‘ve been getting royally screwed around, and am trying to find out if it‘s happening to other troops medics out there. Even if you‘re not a medic, any insight or experience you might have with this would be helpful. Reply here, or send me a private message.

Oh, and if anyone on this forum was responsible for the restructure, we need to have a little chat :mg:

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Our infantry unit had its own UMS with some really great medics; they were disbanded a couple years ago and the medics were told to join the medical company. Most quit or found work in other cities. We‘ve had (some) exercises without any direct medic support since then. We also lost our weapons tech and vehicle tech at about the same time.

In addition from being superb medics, they were also terrific Highlanders; they would carry the C6 if they had to - one of the medic sergeants swallowed his pride and took a Comms course so he could better acquaint himself with the radios, etc. It was a blow to see them go.

 

[combat_medic]

Michael; I hear that! I‘m in a similar position right now, and am in danger of getting removed from my unit. Of course, if they try that, I‘m just remustering to infantry. I can imagine that a lot of medics were placed with the same choice; be torn from their unit, leave or remuster. Not exactly fair, if you ask me.

 

[Armymedic]

Following the topic of medical equipment, in the Equipment site, some of you reserve medics have voiced concern over the restructuring of the medical services....

Let air it out here:

For the reg force (I speak only of 2 Fd Amb in Petawawa, the base with the most med tech posted in the military) that it has been a double edged sword.
On one side, it is good for the personnel assessment (PDR PER) and career development as we are easily shuffled when one of us has to leave a UMS for a course or training, etc.
Bad side is, we can be easily shuffled around...

Saying that, care to the soldiers is always the priority and the reason we are employed. First line care on a daily basis must be maintained in the units UMS, and generally each UMS is left alone to do that. Exceptions are the occasional Fd Amb parade, base duty, or any other of those things that requires unit involvement (ie sports days, Bgd level activities).

As whether is a good thing, I feel it has its moments.

et vous?

 

[starlight_745]

I have found good and bad points as well. Some of the good points are that we have money for continuing ed now. We have been running lots of CPR C recertifications, BTLS etc as well as training BTLS instructors for the unit. The MCSP modules are still in the teething stages however they could be good with some modification. Bad points are we are still chronically short of equipment. We only have one set of UMS basic panniers and 2 functioning ambulances. We are also short of big ticket items as well (i.e. cardiac monitor). One thing I am also finding is the ever increasing time committment as medical resources seem to be more and more committed. Last year I was employed by the army for 110 days on Class A. Combined with working full time in civilian EMS and having a wife, I‘m pretty stretched. Supposedly the reserve med coys/ field ambs are supposed to dramatically increase their ARE to something like 232 positions, but I don‘t see this occuring without a significant investment in equipment and vehicles. We barely have enough vehicles right now to deploy 2 platoons to the field.

 

[combat_medic]

Good points: Allowing UMS Medics to go in yearly for recertification (FA, CPR, BTLS etc.)

Bad points: being treated like a second class citizen because you‘re not a parading member of a Med Coy, being denied courses and taskings because no one thought to call you, having your travel claims ignored because since you‘re not a parading member you‘re "not a priority", being constantly told of your incompetance as a medic because you‘re attached out, despite your experience in several MIRs for months on end, and your countless no duff casualties on ex. Being told that your regimental affiliation means nothing, despite the fact you spend your entire career there, not being able to get basic medical supplies because their being used for training, and real casualties are not a priority, having all your phone calls, memos, and e-mails to the Med Coy ignored or unanswered, but getting called every few months by some jackarse who asks you "who are you, by the way?"

I would say that‘s a pretty good start.

 

[Brad Sallows]

starlight_745, I am surprised that you claim 110 days Class A. Are you sure some of it was not Class B, or did your LFA really grant permission to exceed 100? (Just curious.) I assume you are in a med unit (Fd Amb). If so, I am also surprised there is only a UMS pannier set. I would have expected all med units would have at least one medical platoon set, less a few restricted items (unless you are parading with a detachment of a res fd amb). Ask your Ops NCO to poll the reserve med units to find out their scales of issue; you may be able to build a case for obtaining a more complete pannier set or at least to draw some official attention to rationalizing any apparent shortfalls or surpluses. It is still possible that some of the Reg F box ambulances might be transferred to the Res F if the Reg F Fd Ambs obtain more armoured ambulances. However, if you really have sufficient vehicles to put almost two platoons in the field, I am envious. We have only enough for a medical section, less trailers. I would not expect the reserve medical unit establishments to grow to 232 anytime soon, and I certainly don‘t expect the number of derestricted positions to increase suddenly. Money, money, money.

combat_medic, has your supervisor established contact with the med unit to facilitate your career management? Under the terms of the Mutual Support Agreement, administration of your pay, claims etc should be the responsibility of your employing unit depending on what arrangements are agreed by the respective COs.

If the medical unit to whose establishment you belong is 12 Med Coy/12 Fd Amb, I state with absolute certainty that:

1) There is a designated I/C within the med unit to assist with career management and administration of detached persons notionally assigned to the "lower mainland" UMS, and

2) In the absence of (1), the DCO of 12 Med Coy/12 Fd Amb is the point of contact.

A letter was circulated to all mainland BC units explaining that arrangement, among others. The immediate unit supervisor (section NCO? Adm Pl or Coy I/C, 2I/C, CSM?) is expected to maintain contact with the med unit I/C UMS and/or DCO. You should not have to do this yourself unless within your unit you are reporting directly to the CO, or your supervisor has decided to delegate all that responsibility to you.

 

[combat_medic]

Brad: I was contacted by someone at the unit who had no idea who I was, what my concerns were, or how to address them. He apparently had no medical or administrative training when he was given the IC tasks, so understandably did not know what was going on. When I told him all the difficulties I mentioned, he didn‘t know they even existed or how to remedy them. He gave me a phone number for someone else in the unit to speak to about this, whom I have called repeatedly and left messages for, to no avail.

If they‘re expected to get in touch with me, then they have failed that... miserably. In terms of "facilitating career management" they have done the exact opposite. They have made my career as administratively burdonsome to manage as possible, and blocked every opportunity of advancement that I have tried to administer on my own initiative.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Send me the phone number you were given, via private message on these means.

Unless there is a piece of correspondence between COs stating that so-and-so detached to unit such-and-such is authorized to act independently, there is generally an expectation that information will follow certain well-trodden paths.

Foremost, there is an expectation that someone in the employing unit supervises the medics and represents the interests of the unit medics through the unit chain of command. The unit staff, not the medics, have authority to deal directly with counterparts at the med unit on matters of personnel administration and training. If I called Comd CF H Svcs Gp tomorrow to arrange my own training, I would not expect a return call. (Well, I would, but I would expect it to be a unidirectional conversation with my CO.) If you know your own training requirements, there should be minimal need for you (or more properly, your supervisor) to consult the I/C UMS.

Push your course requests and employment availability up through your unit chain. The routing of information from your unit to the med unit is simply a different path than the one to brigade HQ.

I agree it sounds like we haven‘t provided sufficient orientation to the the I/C UMS.

 

[starlight_745]

Brad

My mistake, yes about 6 weeks of those days was for a course, the rest was class A

 

[Armymedic]

Cbtmedic,
there is a little saying I tell the people who have worked for me at 2 Fd Amb:

If you want to play ball, first you have to show up at the game. When you get there you have to play by the rules, or find a diffrent ball park to play in....

I think you need to show up.

Its funny though, both reg and res F medic complain about having to work in Fd Amb. Thats kinda neat.

 

[Caz]

I find this topic incredibly interesting, but I don‘t know anything about the restructure. Could somebody give me some background?

Thanks!

-R.

 

[Armymedic]

I‘ll attempt to paraphrase it all, but I‘m sure Mr Sallows, and Cbt medic will fill in where I missed...

CF medical services (medical, dental, physio etc) have been given their own Command status, under direction of a Director General Medical Services. It has been done in response to SCONDVA request in an effortpartly to improve the provision of health services to the mbrs of the CF and also to assist in streamlining medical assest (read save money, and make most efficient use of the few medical personnel we have).

Two main efforts of this is having a core of Garrison care where the health teams are not deployed and offer a consistancey of care to mbrs. The other is the consolidation of 1st and 2nd line personnel so that resources are distributed to where they are needed most.

For the Army, this means a proposal which does away with the traditioal UMS system, consolidation of records, doctors and 2nd/3rd line tmts in one area of a garrison. For the Med Techs (which are a field resource in the army), they are consolidated in a Fd Amb and doled out to units based on thier requirement for medical assests and firstline support.
In theory, it all sounds doable, but there is a predisositon to all mbrs of the army to want "thier" assests or atleast what they precieve as thiers close to them. Also this new system it doesn‘t help the young medics because they are unable to get attached to thier troops (read earn the trust of the soldiers and get to know them), making it difficult to do the job really well.

Hope that will help.

 

[Caz]

Interesting... Medical Command... it looks good on paper, but I have zero experience with it in reality.

Hope they can work all the bugs out for you folks.

 

[starlight_745]

I think one major problem in the reserves (speaking as someone who spent time in a combat arms unit) is that most units exist only as squadrons/coys. Therefore most units have only 1 or 2 medics, making training difficult if not impossible. If an entire UMS in a battalion was the norm, you would have a critical mass of pers able to conduct meaningful medical training under the watchful eyes of the snr Med A‘s and PA/MO. Therefore, medics must go to the field amb to get training.

 

[Fraser.g]

They are still working the buggs out but here is my understanding of the new relationship with medics in non medical units.

The short answer is that reserve medics can not belong to non medical units.

The only way that they can parade with another branch unit is because of geographical distance.

For example, there are two medics that parade with the Sask D‘s in Moosejaw Sask. They are members of 16 Field Amb but their day to day administration is carried out by the gaining unit. This is only because there is not a Det of 16 Field Amb in the city. If one of those medics moved to Vancouver, they could not parade with the BCRs they would have to parade with 12 Field Amb. The other option would be to release or remuster.

CFMG provides funding for those medics attached to non-medical units to the tune of 37.5 man days a year(if memory serves) the number may be a bit more so that there is not a financial restriction on maintaining medical training. That training is the responsibility of the local Field Amb. Also the course loading and tasking of that member is the responsibility of the Field Amb.

It is the responsibility of the member to ensure that they attend the training exes of the field amb. If they do not participate in that training and maintain their MOCOMP they will be unable to function as a medic and will be given the option of release or remuster.

With all this in mind, I am surprised that Combat Medic is still parading with the Sea Forth. I understand his reluctance to leave the unit that he has called home for so long but under the new orbat he has to belong to CFMG and not 39 Bregade.

I hope that this clears things up.

 

[MedCorps]

Being a Reg Force guy someone bring be up to speed on this...

It seems like some of the old XX Med Coys are being converted to XX Fd Amb (ie 11 Fd Amb, was 11 Med Coy) and others are staying as XX Med Coy.

I am a little confused as to why (I sorta liked the old system, as it was obvious which units were ResF). Did the role / mission of these "new" Fd Amb designated units change from there role as Med Coys? If so, what is the new role? Are all ResF Med Coys going to re-name to Fd Ambs?

Thanks,

MC

 

[Fraser.g]

All Reserve units are officialy at the field amb level now.

They all have the same number but have increased on paper to field amb from Coy level formations.

The easiet way to diferentiate is that Reg force units have single didgets 1 Field Amb etc

Reserve have two

Victoria has 11 Field Amb
Vancouver is 12
Edmonton is 15
Saskatoon is 16 etc.

The confusion was the delay in formalizing the change. CFMG has been using the new designators for a while and the Land Force have been using the old designators. As of last week, they have been singned off on from Ottawa so every one should be on the same page.

I hope this helps

 

[MedCorps]

So what is the authorized peace-time strength of a Reserve Field Ambulance?

MC

 

[Fraser.g]

Good question,

Right now 16 Field is parading at platoon strength. We have been instructed to recruit 12 Pers a year plus attrition. These target numbers are due to our ability to absorb and train members. Ideally I think (this is my feeling only) that CFMG would like to see us at Coy Strength with about 50% of our numbers employed in the civi health care field.

If any one else has an idea please fire it off.