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Other than it being a just plain goofy design for a tat, at the end of the day it's just a word. One that was used by Christian knights to describe the Saracen armies about 900 years ago.
Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
- Thread starter Colin Parkinson
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ballz
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PPCLI Guy said:
I'd think you were an idiot and if that were in any way comparable you might have a point, but the tattoo doesn't say "frig Allah."
Let's not pretend that there is not a faction of Islam that wants to bring death upon the infidels of the world, and have tried , and are still trying. Giving a big "frig you" to those who wish to commit genocide against you, your family, and your culture harm is quite different from "frig Christ" or "frig Allah."
I don't know this particular sailor's history but it's even more true for those who have fought overseas against Islamist extremists. When your enemy wants to kill you because you are an infidel, it's only natural to develop a sardonic sense of humour over something like this.
I don't see how this is any different from homosexuals embracing the word "faggot" as middle finger to the homophobic among us. If a gay person had "faggot" tattoo'd on their forearm, I might find it distasteful but I 1) wouldn't be offended; and 2) am in no place to judge.
Colin Parkinson
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Considering there was an active contingent of said Muslims trying to kill CF personal in Afghanistan, then I would say wearing the word is a way of saying 'eff you" for trying to kill me or my comrades.
And there are also many Muslims that we were fighting alongside, in the ANA. There are Muslims serving in our own ranks. There are Muslims in the ranks of countries we are allied with.
Pretending the tattoo is anything other than a middle finger to Islam is silly, so let’s dispense with the notion. It is what it is. I remember when the infidel shirts and hats and patches got cool for a while at the height of the global war on terror. Nobody expects aggressive young men in their twenties to be the pinnacle of taste, and that’s fine. A tattoo though? Really?
The question then is does or could it reflect poorly on the CAF. The sailor in question will, I’m sure, have a definitive answer in due course and I suspect he won’t like it. Given the dress regs covering tattoos that I posted earlier, at that juncture the individual will probably have no excuse any better than “yup, I was in fact that dumb”. When we join the CAF we choose to know and to follow its rules.
Pretending the tattoo is anything other than a middle finger to Islam is silly, so let’s dispense with the notion. It is what it is. I remember when the infidel shirts and hats and patches got cool for a while at the height of the global war on terror. Nobody expects aggressive young men in their twenties to be the pinnacle of taste, and that’s fine. A tattoo though? Really?
The question then is does or could it reflect poorly on the CAF. The sailor in question will, I’m sure, have a definitive answer in due course and I suspect he won’t like it. Given the dress regs covering tattoos that I posted earlier, at that juncture the individual will probably have no excuse any better than “yup, I was in fact that dumb”. When we join the CAF we choose to know and to follow its rules.
ballz
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Brihard said:
I don't know the guy, maybe he does hate all of Islam, maybe he's a shit stain, I tend to make that judgement about people with trashy tattoos.... but I disagree with your sentiment. Criticism, middle fingers, etc. toward Islamist extremists does not necessarily extend to all Muslims. This is the root of this Islamaphobia BS being pushed by those who wish to divide us into little tribes, that somehow we can't criticize the extreme elements of Islam without that extending to all Muslims and being meant to hurt all Muslims, as if they are a homogeneous group. And society is quickly falling for it.
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PPCLI Guy said:
No, see my post about 99,9% .....there is no debate on that, or"f" anyone's deity.
And if you are a civi you can have whatever you want.....being a moron isn't illegal. (though we all know it should be)
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According to social media member was in Afghanistan in the Army and was involved in a IED attack that killed friends, apparently the tattoo was an attempt to deal with his PTSD sometime later CT'd to the navy. He regrets the tattoo. The guy who went out of his way to take his picture and post on twitter is well known social media "warrior" https://twitter.com/robhutten. He outed the member and tagged his ship's name. The backlash against him was significant and he's now taken the tweet down but not before tagging Antifa and other groups. He's not really sorry.
Halifax Tar
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PPCLI Guy said:
I think I, like most, wouldnt really care.
If we, on the forum, are an appropriate cross section of Canadian society then I would surmise very few of us are actually practicing any religion and are probably more closely tied with being agnostic or atheist.
I never understood why some folks like to throw the Christian thing back. Christianity is dying, western society has moved beyond its shackles and confines, IMHO.
Halifax Tar
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Brihard said:
You cant just dismiss a factual counter argument. You are essentially moving the goal posts.
The fact remains that Infidel is defined as a unfaithful. It comes from Latin word infidelis. If someone artificially conflates with Islam then they obviously didnt take the time to gain an understanding of our language.
The hilarity to me is the person who reported this is either a) offended by the word infidel, b) offended by the firearm shape of the tattoo; or c) both. But he doesn't seem to take issue with the fact the phone he used take this picture was made in some 3rd world shit-hole and the workers we paid pennies.
Some peoples kids I tell ya.
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This is why I'm a big proponent of "sleeves down" 8) at all times.
1. I hate rolling sleeves and think it looks stupid and sloppy.
2. If you do have some ink, it's covered. It's one less thing someone can give you grief about.
Btw, not even close to the worst tattoo I've seen in the Forces. My fav one was K.A.T. tattooed in big black letters on both arms of a Corporal which stood for "Kill All Taliban"
1. I hate rolling sleeves and think it looks stupid and sloppy.
2. If you do have some ink, it's covered. It's one less thing someone can give you grief about.
Btw, not even close to the worst tattoo I've seen in the Forces. My fav one was K.A.T. tattooed in big black letters on both arms of a Corporal which stood for "Kill All Taliban"
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
I've never felt the need to get a tattoo. So, I'm not savvy on them.
But, there is a policy where I used to work, "Tattoos depicting nudity, obscenity, racial, sexual, political or social bias must be covered."
Long-sleeve shirts in July and August.
In station, this is also required when visitors (non Department members) are present.
Which is a big step forward from the not so distant past when ALL tattoos had to be covered.
And, that's with a union. AFTER you get hired. After you are off probation.
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Jarnhamar said:
As long as it doesn't say white pride, its fine.
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https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/raising-middle-finger-is-relays-information-judge-rules-in-case-of-man-accused-of-breaching-no-contact-order
The above might be helpful in understanding that in the view of the law, giving the middle finger or even a cold, hard stare can amount to an intimidating communication, as long as there is intent. Bear in mind that in respect of human rights law or Charter cases (both non-Criminal), the standard of proof is much lower and onus is on the accused/respondent to establish that no offence was intended against a complainant or any particular group.
The above might be helpful in understanding that in the view of the law, giving the middle finger or even a cold, hard stare can amount to an intimidating communication, as long as there is intent. Bear in mind that in respect of human rights law or Charter cases (both non-Criminal), the standard of proof is much lower and onus is on the accused/respondent to establish that no offence was intended against a complainant or any particular group.
Jarnhamar
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Some interesting observations to draw away from the Iman's interview, wouldn't you agree MM?
After deleting his tweet (comment about deleting the tweet seemed rather flippant) Mr Rob Hutten locked up his account.
I guess trying to doxx a CAF member with a 13 year old tattoo done up to deal with getting blown up, losing friends and some PTSD rubbed some people the wrong way.