• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

'MBA types' hurt military, commander says

paracowboy – thanks for the heads up.  Here's my spin:

This article appears to be a compilation of everything somewhat controversial that was mentioned in a lengthy interview I did focused on 39 CBG soldiers joining C Coy and the training we were conducting.  The context of this interview is reflected in the author’s main piece found here:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=bf158b3e-6a01-4596-9e85-d3aca784e110

Several complicated issues were discussed, then edited and re-edited down to, in my opinion, over-simplistic descriptions and in one case, wrong intent.  Firstly and most importantly is criticism of government decisions. One can be unhappy with the immediate results of a decision (especially if one understands the rationale) without being critical of it.  I explained the rationale for the cancellation of TF 2-07 in detail: the shortfall of enablers such as line of communications troops, intelligence, and medical personnel; and the requirement to have somebody train recruit influx with force expansion.  Civil control of the military is a hallmark of democracy – we do what we’re told.  We don’t criticize government decisions.

We discussed in detail the conundrum (I used that term) that we face with force expansion versus retention.  We understandably need to grow, yet at the same time provide the challenge that young soldiers join for.  It’s hard to train others and deploy yourself at the same time.  This will be one of the biggest challenges we as an Army will face over the next decade.  The solution begins now with ‘growing’ as many quality NCOs as we can.

The ‘MBA’ issue arose out of his question regarding why we have to supply a rifle coy to 2 RCR, since they should have three of their own rifle coys.  We discussed the shrinking of infantry bns over the past decade or so.  The 90s were hard on us, and I don’t believe the introduction of business practices (and language) helped in this case.  The ‘elimination of redundancies’ hit the infantry battalions hard in the search to reduce or re-apportion PYs – pioneer and mortar pls are an example.  As a result, with depth / redundancy non-existent, infantry bns are hard-pressed to generate three fully manned, deployable rifle coys.  This adoption of business models in the 1990s was matched by MBAs becoming fashionable.  The hard historical lessons through which our structures evolved took a back seat to efficiency.  I have previously called this the ‘triumph of the MBAs over the military historians’ or of ‘efficiency over effectiveness’.  Some in the US have called out against this as well (see The Danger of Generals as CEOs: War-Mart, http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060403&s=risen040306).  Many who were confronted with these decisions will understandably disagree with me, but regardless, in the end, our bns lost strength – a loss we’re really feeling now.  Finally, I’m far from anti-academic and this observation is not directed to individuals who have or are pursuing MBAs (no offence Gunner and 'surprise').  Gunner is right when he says MBAs can offer different approaches to problems - we just have to ensure they are in balance and that we retain a military, not a business culture.

Understandably, I’ve already been called to task on the article.  Soldier on.
 
eyre said:
Understandably, I’ve already been called to task on the article.  Soldier on.

Speaking of surprises. [not!!] 

Thanks for the additional words. :salute:

w601
 
Thanks for responding.....and reassuring us that it wasn't a case of self-immolation. Needless to say, in this forum you are indeed preaching to the choir.

Well-said all......except......
eyre said:
....why we have to supply a rifle coy to 2 RCR, since they should have three of their own rifle coys.
...we should still have FOUR rifle companies!  (some choirboys are older than others ;) )

 
no offence Gunner and 'surprise'

Surprise is a principle of war.   :-[

First time I was ever wrong about something.... very embarrassing.   :-[
 
big bad john said:
As someone who has served for over twenty years in my countries military (Royal Marines) , IMHO a good soldier might 'want' many things, but says yes sir, when he gets his orders and carries them out to the best of his abilities.  I know many very good soldiers who were 'cursed' by being excellent Instructors and Staff Officers, and thus never saw operational taskings.  But they did their jobs well and should not be looked down because they never went on operational taskings.  Such comments should be discouraged strongly in my opinion.  Rant over.

Agree strongly; some of the longest serving - and hardest working - members of our reserve unit have no medals for overseas deployments, but also show up without fail for every parade, every exercise when it is -20 Celsius, or raining, and are out there doing things and leading people.
 
Eyre:

In your battalion, how many of your officers (and, quite possibly, NCO's) have MBA's?  If any, what do they bring to the table (i.e your O Gp) that is directly attributable to the MBA?
 
In your battalion, how many of your officers (and, quite possibly, NCO's) have MBA's?  If any, what do they bring to the table (i.e your O Gp) that is directly attributable to the MBA?

One, and he just graduated.  Nobody in the OGp has an MBA.
 
This article appears to be a compilation of everything somewhat controversial that was mentioned in a lengthy interview

I always avoid "lengthy interviews" - they always turn out badly in my experience (and make sure they're taped).  :salute:

cheers, mdh
 
mdh said:
I always avoid "lengthy interviews" - they always turn out badly in my experience (and make sure they're taped).  :salute:

Who are you- Brian Mulroney?  ;D
 
Not much good comes out of interviews with the media. The issue that is at the root of the problem is the lack of a dedicated staff for the training mission, so the CF robs line units for instructor staff which essentially make a unit undeployable. Perhaps as a stop gap measure qualified NCO's can be drawn from the Pres to serve as instructors so that line units can remain intact or to fill gaps in a deploying unit.
 
It has been my experience never to trust reporters and the media, they always tend to put their own spin on anything no matter how simple or how clear.  Dealing with them is always a tad difficult and messy.  I am sorry that it turned out so for you.
 
tomahawk6 said:
Not much good comes out of interviews with the media. The big problem that is at the root of the problem is the lack of a dedicated staff for the training mission, so the CF robs line units for instructor staff which essentially make a unit undeployable. Perhaps as a stop gap measure qualified NCO's can be drawn from the Pres to serve as instructors so that line units can remain intact or to fill gaps in a deploying unit.
Start a full time training detachment in Vancouver or Chilliwack staffed by reservists and I'll bet you get a lot of volunteers.  It could teach 2 serials of SQ/BIQ regular force in Sept-Dec and another 2 serials Jan-Apr, then switch to PRes BMQ/SQ/BIQ during the summer.  I would personally sign up for this and I bet we could find a full staff of Vancouver personnel.

Obviously this concept is portable to other regions.
 
I find it refreashing to here from serving commanders.  Normally that is reserved to recently retired members.
 
Back
Top