MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
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Rheostatic
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Forgive me; I've read through CBI 205.461 - Maternity and Parental Allowances over and over again, but I still don't see where it excludes Class A members from PATA.dapaterson said:
I certainly would not be surprised if you're correct, and I wouldn't expect the PATA for a Class A member to be large, but I also wouldn't want to miss out on a benefit because I misinterpreted the rules.
So which part of the rules (i.e. which para in CBI 205.461) exclude Class A from PATA? Again I have conflicting advice from my organization, one agrees with dapaterson; the other insists that class A members can collect a small PATA allowance. Any advice is appreciated.
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Paragraph (3)c requires your eligibility under EI or the QPIP to be solely based on military income.
Rheostatic
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I see. So Class A is not explicitly excluded, but a Class A member who is eligible for EI based on some other, civilian employment would not be eligible for PATA.
Class A members do pay EI premiums though, and I'm sure some Class A members would meet the EI eligibility criteria of 600 hours worked in the previous 52 weeks. I can see how the section you quoted would exclude some, but not all Class A members from collecting a parental allowance. Thanks for your answer.
Class A members do pay EI premiums though, and I'm sure some Class A members would meet the EI eligibility criteria of 600 hours worked in the previous 52 weeks. I can see how the section you quoted would exclude some, but not all Class A members from collecting a parental allowance. Thanks for your answer.
Rheostatic
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For future reference, MHRRP Chapter 17 offers some clarification on maternity/parental allowance for Class A members.
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Hi,
My wife is military. She was a part-time reservist and start full-time late last year. We had a child together in April. Prior to being full-time in the army last fall, she was full-time working for the BC Provincial government and doing some Class A on the side. The military tops up to 93% but we were a bit surprised when we found out that was only going to be around $5,000 dollars. She earned around $60,000 in the preceding 12 months with about $33,000 in the Army, most of that after she started working full-time. They calculated 93% of the $33,000 which was around $31,000. Fine, but then they took off around $25,000 because that was EI. She would be qualified to get EI from her other civi job that she had worked previously so should the army be taking that off they're top off?
Does anybody else have experience with this either going Class B or RegF less than 12 months prior to going on Mata or Pata after working full-time in the civilian world?
Thanks!
My wife is military. She was a part-time reservist and start full-time late last year. We had a child together in April. Prior to being full-time in the army last fall, she was full-time working for the BC Provincial government and doing some Class A on the side. The military tops up to 93% but we were a bit surprised when we found out that was only going to be around $5,000 dollars. She earned around $60,000 in the preceding 12 months with about $33,000 in the Army, most of that after she started working full-time. They calculated 93% of the $33,000 which was around $31,000. Fine, but then they took off around $25,000 because that was EI. She would be qualified to get EI from her other civi job that she had worked previously so should the army be taking that off they're top off?
Does anybody else have experience with this either going Class B or RegF less than 12 months prior to going on Mata or Pata after working full-time in the civilian world?
Thanks!
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Rules for MATA/PATA are well spelled out in the CBIs. You get EI, and the military tops you up based on a formula that's spelled out in regulations. For Reservists, the top up is based on your military earnings in the past 12 months - other income is not included.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-205-officer-ncm-allowance-rates.page
205.461(8) (Weekly rate of pay) For the purpose of paragraphs (6) and (7), the weekly rate of pay:
for a member of the Regular Force, is seven-thirtieths of the monthly rate of pay; or
for a member of the Reserve Force, is based on the number of paid days served on Class A, B and C Reserve Service and Regular Force service in the 364-day period immediately prior to commencing maternity leave or parental leave, calculated as follows:
[Total paid days on Class A Reserve Service] × [Current rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class A Reserve Service]
+
[Total paid days on Class B Reserve Service] × [Current rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class B Reserve Service]
+
[Total paid days on Class C Reserve Service] × [Current monthly rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class C Reserve Service divided by 30]
+
[Total paid days on Regular Force service] × [Current monthly rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Regular Force service divided by 30]
× 7
÷ The lesser of 364 days or the number of days during the period beginning on the day of enrolment and ending on the day before commencing maternity or paternal leave.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-205-officer-ncm-allowance-rates.page
205.461(8) (Weekly rate of pay) For the purpose of paragraphs (6) and (7), the weekly rate of pay:
for a member of the Regular Force, is seven-thirtieths of the monthly rate of pay; or
for a member of the Reserve Force, is based on the number of paid days served on Class A, B and C Reserve Service and Regular Force service in the 364-day period immediately prior to commencing maternity leave or parental leave, calculated as follows:
[Total paid days on Class A Reserve Service] × [Current rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class A Reserve Service]
+
[Total paid days on Class B Reserve Service] × [Current rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class B Reserve Service]
+
[Total paid days on Class C Reserve Service] × [Current monthly rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class C Reserve Service divided by 30]
+
[Total paid days on Regular Force service] × [Current monthly rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Regular Force service divided by 30]
× 7
÷ The lesser of 364 days or the number of days during the period beginning on the day of enrolment and ending on the day before commencing maternity or paternal leave.
RubberTree
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Hello all,
MATA/PATA question regarding IMR and Extended parental benefits:
The gov't website states: "To provide more flexibility for Canadian Forces members, the EI parental benefit eligibility period can be extended up to a maximum of 104 weeks." (http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/ei/military_families.page)
Is this 104 weeks until MATA/PATA must commence or 104 weeks before all benefits cease?
I appreciate any thoughts on the matter.
Thanks
RT
MATA/PATA question regarding IMR and Extended parental benefits:
The gov't website states: "To provide more flexibility for Canadian Forces members, the EI parental benefit eligibility period can be extended up to a maximum of 104 weeks." (http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/ei/military_families.page)
Is this 104 weeks until MATA/PATA must commence or 104 weeks before all benefits cease?
I appreciate any thoughts on the matter.
Thanks
RT
Hi all
RegF lady here
Planning to start mata/pata in January, and my TOS end in June. Ideally I'd like to take my leave until the end of my contract, and opt to not be topped up by the military, so that I am not required to pay the leave back in "working days". They're clear that the allowance must be paid back in days, but is it even possible to not opt for the allowance in the first place? From what I've read it seems like this could work, although it is not specifically stated. It also looks like the eligibility for the leave and the allowances go hand in hand, although I would be more than happy with just the leave and they can keep the allowance!
Meeting with my mata/pata clerk next week, just want to walk in there prepared and with realistic expectations.
Does anyone have experience with a situation like this?
RegF lady here
Planning to start mata/pata in January, and my TOS end in June. Ideally I'd like to take my leave until the end of my contract, and opt to not be topped up by the military, so that I am not required to pay the leave back in "working days". They're clear that the allowance must be paid back in days, but is it even possible to not opt for the allowance in the first place? From what I've read it seems like this could work, although it is not specifically stated. It also looks like the eligibility for the leave and the allowances go hand in hand, although I would be more than happy with just the leave and they can keep the allowance!
Meeting with my mata/pata clerk next week, just want to walk in there prepared and with realistic expectations.
Does anyone have experience with a situation like this?
Rheostatic
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Yes. There are separate eligibility criteria for leave and for the allowance, so it follows that some people would have to take leave without the allowance. The form (DND 2268) has an area where you will indicate whether you want the allowance.BakkerS said:
(Not a clerk, just a guy who took parental leave recently.)
Got a question, I'm helping do a bit of research for someone.
Background
- Member is pregnant and on LWOR pregnancy will be LWOP MATA once the baby arrives.
- Member returns to duty in the fall.
- Member is a private, due for a normal 'on time' promotion to Cpl shortly.
- Member had inquired about but did not receive early promotion.
- It is understood that promotion should not normally happen til member returns to duty, as no military function is being carried out.
Situation
- If the member were to have been promoted in February, she believes she would get a PER for FY16-17.
- As a result of not getting a 16-17 PER, she believes she will be at a disadvantage, essentially set back a year for when she will begin to be merit listed as a Cpl, with the corresponding advancement towards PLQ, MCpl, etc.
- Net result is that had she not become pregnant, she would be a year ahead in terms of being considered for career advancement. Ipso facto, there's an argument to potentially be made that there is some discrimination based on pregnancy.
Question: Is there any resource based in policy or adjudicative decisions that would allow this member to avoid or mitigate this potential one year career setback due to pregnancy / MATA leave?
I don't have any personal connection to this one, it's just someone who came to me looking for some help. Any insight would be appreciated.
Background
- Member is pregnant and on LWOR pregnancy will be LWOP MATA once the baby arrives.
- Member returns to duty in the fall.
- Member is a private, due for a normal 'on time' promotion to Cpl shortly.
- Member had inquired about but did not receive early promotion.
- It is understood that promotion should not normally happen til member returns to duty, as no military function is being carried out.
Situation
- If the member were to have been promoted in February, she believes she would get a PER for FY16-17.
- As a result of not getting a 16-17 PER, she believes she will be at a disadvantage, essentially set back a year for when she will begin to be merit listed as a Cpl, with the corresponding advancement towards PLQ, MCpl, etc.
- Net result is that had she not become pregnant, she would be a year ahead in terms of being considered for career advancement. Ipso facto, there's an argument to potentially be made that there is some discrimination based on pregnancy.
Question: Is there any resource based in policy or adjudicative decisions that would allow this member to avoid or mitigate this potential one year career setback due to pregnancy / MATA leave?
I don't have any personal connection to this one, it's just someone who came to me looking for some help. Any insight would be appreciated.
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CANFORGEN 038/17 CMP 022/17 141424Z FEB 17
PROMOTION POLICY FOR MEMBERS ON MATERNITY AND PARENTAL LEAVE
UNCLASSIFIED
REFS: A. CFAO 11-6 COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY-OFFICERS-REGULAR FORCE
B. CFAO 49-12 PROMOTION POLICY - OFFICERS - PRIMARY RESERVE
C. CFAO 49-4 CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS REGULAR FORCE
D. CFAO 49-5 CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER - PRIMARY RESERVE
1. AS A RESULT OF A GRIEVANCE, THE CDS DIRECTED AN UPDATE TO THE POLICY ON PROMOTION WHILE ON MATERNITY AND PARENTAL LEAVE
2. THIS POLICY WILL BE APPLICABLE TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE CAF. THE PROMOTION DATE FOR MEMBERS ON MATERNITY OR PARENTAL LEAVE WILL BE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION AS PER THE PROMOTION MESSAGE OR LETTER. NORMALLY THIS WILL BE SET AT NO LATER THAN 14 DAYS PRIOR TO THE COS OR, WHEN ALL REQUIREMENTS ARE ACHIEVED IN CASES WHERE NO COS IS NEEDED
3. NEW PROMOTION POLICIES WILL BE AMENDED TO REFLECT THIS NEW APPROACH. SENIORITY WILL STILL BE GIVEN AS PER THE PRESENT POLICIES
4. THIS CHANGE IS EFFECTIVE AS OF THE DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THIS CANFORGEN
5. QUESTIONS MAY BE REFERRED TO DMCPG 2-3 THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND
PROMOTION POLICY FOR MEMBERS ON MATERNITY AND PARENTAL LEAVE
UNCLASSIFIED
REFS: A. CFAO 11-6 COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY-OFFICERS-REGULAR FORCE
B. CFAO 49-12 PROMOTION POLICY - OFFICERS - PRIMARY RESERVE
C. CFAO 49-4 CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS REGULAR FORCE
D. CFAO 49-5 CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER - PRIMARY RESERVE
1. AS A RESULT OF A GRIEVANCE, THE CDS DIRECTED AN UPDATE TO THE POLICY ON PROMOTION WHILE ON MATERNITY AND PARENTAL LEAVE
2. THIS POLICY WILL BE APPLICABLE TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE CAF. THE PROMOTION DATE FOR MEMBERS ON MATERNITY OR PARENTAL LEAVE WILL BE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION AS PER THE PROMOTION MESSAGE OR LETTER. NORMALLY THIS WILL BE SET AT NO LATER THAN 14 DAYS PRIOR TO THE COS OR, WHEN ALL REQUIREMENTS ARE ACHIEVED IN CASES WHERE NO COS IS NEEDED
3. NEW PROMOTION POLICIES WILL BE AMENDED TO REFLECT THIS NEW APPROACH. SENIORITY WILL STILL BE GIVEN AS PER THE PRESENT POLICIES
4. THIS CHANGE IS EFFECTIVE AS OF THE DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THIS CANFORGEN
5. QUESTIONS MAY BE REFERRED TO DMCPG 2-3 THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND
Anyone have and wisdom/insight/predictions into how the federal govt's promise of 18-mo mat leave will affect MATA/PATA?
When would those changes take effect? And only for people starting their mat leave after that date or those already on it?
I see this under QR&O 16.26 (7):
(7) (Maternity Benefits Extended) If a period of maternity benefits received under the Employment Insurance Act, or a provincial law or scheme, is extended in accordance with the Employment Insurance Act or the provincial law or scheme because the officer or non-commissioned member returns to duty under paragraph (6), the end date of the period of maternity leave granted shall be extended by the period that the maternity benefits are extended under the applicable law or scheme.
TIA
When would those changes take effect? And only for people starting their mat leave after that date or those already on it?
I see this under QR&O 16.26 (7):
(7) (Maternity Benefits Extended) If a period of maternity benefits received under the Employment Insurance Act, or a provincial law or scheme, is extended in accordance with the Employment Insurance Act or the provincial law or scheme because the officer or non-commissioned member returns to duty under paragraph (6), the end date of the period of maternity leave granted shall be extended by the period that the maternity benefits are extended under the applicable law or scheme.
TIA
medgoal said:
Bear in mind that the QR&O you are quoting is for Maternity Leave, and the 18 months of benefits that the federal govt is talking about would be affecting the parental leave/benefits. QR&O 16.27 for Parental Leave doesn't have any similar paras. Maternity benefits only make up the initial 17 weeks of MATA/PATA. I believe the changes announced in the budget would primarily affect Parental Leave.
Once the actual legislation has been enacted, IE changes to the EI Act and such, then DND's decision makers will be able to decide on making changes to QR&O 16.27, and CBI 205.461. Though just because EI benefits are changing, doesn't necessarily mean that we will alter our top up for the additional six months.
I have an email in to the PATA clerk to seek the real answer, but it's Saturday, so here I am 
Question: what would cause the pay system to issue a 0.00 current payment at end-month, leaving a positive closing balance, for a member on parental leave?
Background:
Commenced parental leave on 22 Oct, so the end-Oct pay was already in the system as full pay.
Mid-Nov, my October pay was adjusted for the LWOP period, but PATA allowance hadn't yet been inputted. With the adjustment for October, current pay and allowances was negative, but a current payment was issued, so closing balance was a larger negative. All good, I knew everything would square up once PATA allowance was applied.
End-Nov, PATA allowance is applied, so the negative opening balance is resolved, but now current payment is zero and closing balance is positive in the amount I'd have expected my current payment to be. Why would there be a positive closing balance at end month?
Thanks in advance to any pay gurus with insight.
Question: what would cause the pay system to issue a 0.00 current payment at end-month, leaving a positive closing balance, for a member on parental leave?
Background:
Commenced parental leave on 22 Oct, so the end-Oct pay was already in the system as full pay.
Mid-Nov, my October pay was adjusted for the LWOP period, but PATA allowance hadn't yet been inputted. With the adjustment for October, current pay and allowances was negative, but a current payment was issued, so closing balance was a larger negative. All good, I knew everything would square up once PATA allowance was applied.
End-Nov, PATA allowance is applied, so the negative opening balance is resolved, but now current payment is zero and closing balance is positive in the amount I'd have expected my current payment to be. Why would there be a positive closing balance at end month?
Thanks in advance to any pay gurus with insight.
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I have exactly the same problem with a back pay issue. When I get answer, I will be sure to share it here.
I got a similar closing balance pay statement today with no payment for end Nov. I’m OUTCAN and just assumed it had something to do with a guy with the same last name went back to Canada this fall. My currency was also changed to CAD.
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kev994 said:
Oh, that sucks!
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