MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )

[luke_l]

The difference in mine between a lump sum payback and monthly installments was something $1,500.

Can anyone confirm whether or not this is true?  I spent 6 months on PATA, and am just doing my pension payback the "default" way month by month (they never even really gave me an option).  I would like to assume that there is no difference in the total dollar value whether you pay it back monthly or all at once, but hey, you never know.

 

[Sparkplugs]

You should have a MATA/PATA clerk at your base orderly room. They'll know about the pension thing, and mine offered me a form so I could elect to take more taxes off of my military top-up (because EI doesn't take enough taxes, and you'll end up owing come tax time.) They recommended me a certain amount, said it was the usual, so I went with it. Still ended up owing a couple grand come tax time, so I've told some of the other guys in my unit to look into have more taken out -- worst case, you give the feds an interest-free loan and get money back come tax time. Best case, you don't end up owing two grand to the feds with a brand-new baby at home. If you want more info from me, feel free to PM me. But the best source of info will come from your MATA/PATA clerk -- this is what they're trained to do. Use them as that resource.

 

[rocksteady]

My wife has been on maternity leave for about 9 months now.  She is a civi and got topped up from her employer.  Can I take the rest of the MAT leave?  If so would I be topped up?  Also how much notice do I have to give the CF that I want to take the rest of the MAT leave?

The reason I ask is that she may go back to work a bit early to take a job opportunity.

Thanks.

 

[mkil]

Good Day all,

Just wondering if anyone in much longer than me knows the regulations regarding career advancement if pregnant/ on MAT leave. Just a little background would help I suppose.

I am looking into applying for the SCP in August when the CANFORGEN comes out. I meet the educational and experience requirements for the trade I would be applying for. My husband and I are talking about expanding our family. If I am pregnant or on MAT leave, am I still able to go through with the application process, interview etc? I would only take mat leave up until I am required for training in a new trade (IF my application is successful), and my husband would take Paternity leave for the remainder.

I know in civvy world a woman cannot be discriminated against because of pregnancy, but I think there might be limitations in the forces. Anyone know the rules? Or knows a guy who knows a guy lol

Thanks all!

 

[dapaterson]

Talk to the PSO; they should have the most up to date information. 

 

[Nuggs]

Can a member take multiple periods of parental leave for the same child?

Assuming that there is no more than the 35 weeks parental used between the member and the spouse.

 

[mariomike]

For reference,

16.27 - PARENTAL LEAVE

(1) (Application) This article applies to an officer or non-commissioned member of the Regular Force or the Reserve Force on Class  "B" or "C" Reserve Service.

(2) (Definition) In this article, "parental leave" means a period of leave without pay and allowances granted to an officer or non-commissioned member for parental or paternity purposes relating to one or more new-born or adopted children or children to be adopted.

(3) (Eligibility) An officer or non-commissioned member is entitled to parental leave, on request, if the member:
a.has the care and custody of one or more new-born children of the member;
b.starts legal proceedings under the laws of a province to adopt one or more children who are placed with the member for the purpose of adoption; or
c.obtains an order under the laws of a province for the adoption of one or more children.

(4) (Period of Leave) The period of parental leave is up to:
a.a period of 37 weeks; or
b.if the officer or non-commissioned member is entitled to a period of leave under article 16.26 (Maternity Leave), a period of the sum of the applicable periods of entitlement referred to in CBI subparagraph 205.461(4)(b) (Maternity and Parental Allowances) and paragraph 205.461(7).

(5) (Start and End of Period) The period of parental leave shall be taken within 52 weeks of the day on which the child or children of the officer or non-commissioned member are born or the day on which the member first became entitled to parental leave under subparagraph (3)(b) or (c).

(6) (Extension) The end date of the period of parental leave shall be extended by any of the following periods:
a.any period during which one or more new-born or adopted children or children to be adopted are hospitalized, if the officer or non-commissioned member has not yet started the period of the parental leave;
b.any period during which the officer or non-commissioned member, having started but not ended the period of the parental leave, returns to duty while one or more new-born or adopted children or children to be adopted are hospitalized; and
c.any period during which the officer or non-commissioned member, having started but not ended the period of the parental leave, is directed to return to duty by the commanding officer because of imperative military requirements.

(7) (Limitation) A period of parental leave
a.extended under subparagraph 6(a) or 6(b) shall end no later than 52 weeks after the day on which the officer or non-commissioned member first becomes entitled to parental leave under paragraph (3); or
b.extended under subparagraph 6(c) or deferred under paragraph (8) shall end no later than 104 weeks after the day on which the officer or non-commissioned member first becomes entitled to parental leave under paragraph (3).

(8) (Military Requirements) A commanding officer may defer the start date of the period of parental leave if there are military imperative requirements.

(9) (Combined Periods - Parental Reasons) Subject to paragraph (10), if both parents are members of the Canadian Forces, the sum of the periods of parental leave to which the parents are entitled under this article, or the sum of the periods of parental leave under this article and any exemption from duty and training under article 9.10 (Exemption from Duty and Training - Parental Purposes) to which the parents are entitled, shall not exceed 37 weeks.

(10) (Combined Periods - Parental and Maternity Reasons) If both parents are members of the Canadian Forces and one parent is entitled to an exemption from duty and training under article 9.09 (Exemption From Duty and Training - Maternity Purposes) or is entitled to maternity leave under article 16.26, the sum of the period of exemption from duty and training under article 9.09 or maternity leave under article 16.26 to which a parent is entitled, and the periods of parental leave under this article and any exemption from duty and training under article 9.10 to which the parents are entitled, shall not exceed 52 weeks.

(11) (Transitional) The end date of the period of parental leave for an officer or non-commissioned member to whom section 4 of the Fairness for Military Families (Employment Insurance) Act applies is extended in the same manner as the period referred to in subsection 23(2) of the Employment Insurance Act as determined by the application of that section.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-16.page

 

[dapaterson]

Ref: a. QR&O 16.27: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-16.page#cha-016-27
b. Leave Policy Manual (see 8.3): http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap8

Neither ref discusses that situation; ref a discusses PATA only in the context of a single period.  That said, I recommend finding the MATA/PATA clerk for your base and asking the question; they will have the most recent policy updates and interpretations available.

 

[Nuggs]

Yeah, I couldn't seem to find an applicable regulation.

The actual situation is:

Following the birth of my child I was on a career course. I proceeded on PATA for 10 weeks.

I recently returned to work (dec 7th).

Our plans at that point were for my wife to open a dayhome and start bringing in children upon completion of her maternity and remaining parental benefits.

I was under the understanding that I would be remaining in an operational / sea going unit for the next year to two, especially as I had been recently promoted.

On Thursday the CM dropped the bomb that I would be posted to Ottawa next APS.

I had no issues with it, and the wife was actually excited to move.

In trying to work out the financial details, we had discussed the possibility of her returning to work early and me proceeding back on PATA (pending COs co approval of course).

The reason for this being her parental benefits would expire at the same time that my posting would occur. Leaving her with no work and no EI relocation benefits.

Service Canada tells me that is a non-issue.

The local PATA clerk tells me that is not possible. That members are only entitled to one period of PATA regardless of duration. I'm still awaiting a reference.

Just wondering if anyone has seen a similar situation before. I was pretty sure I'd heard of members going back on PATA before, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Just tossing around ideas at this point. I don't think IR is an option as it seems to be a fairly substantial financial hit these days. And after almost 7 years at sea it would be nice to get a shore posting, especially with 2 small children.

 

[Nuggs]

For anyone that may be curious, or have the same future issue, the policy clarification from DGCB reads:

If a Regular Force member or Reserve Force member on Class ‘B’ or ‘C’ decides to go back to work before his/her parental leave is done without an IMR, and then returns on LWOP-Parental, then no PATA will be paid.

You are able to request to go on LWOP personal if it is approved, but there would be no top up, you would only have EI Benefits. 

 

[Rheostatic]

Can a class A reserve member be ED&T for a period of time, and then still be eligible to be ED&T For Parental Purposes (parental leave) later in the same year?

Are class A reserve members eligible for parental allowance? (I would think not, but I've heard conflicting advice.)

 

[dapaterson]

There is no allowance for class A members on ED&T for parental purposes, though they are eligible for EI.  I believe there are also provisions for pension buy-back under part I.1 or part I of the CFSA (whichever one the person belongs to).

 

[Rheostatic]

There is no allowance for class A members on ED&T for parental purposes, though they are eligible for EI.

I expected as much; thanks for confirming.

I believe there are also provisions for pension buy-back under part I.1 or part I of the CFSA (whichever one the person belongs to).

I haven't seen this in any of the parental leave policies I've read so far. Where can I find out more about this?

 

[dapaterson]

For Part I.1 (the Reserve pension), see the Reserve Force Pension Plan Regulations (http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2007-32/FullText.html) for the definition of earnings:

2b  a member who is exempted from training and duty under article 9.09 or 9.10 or was granted leave for maternity or parental purposes under article 16.26 or 16.27 of the Queen’s Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces is deemed to be in receipt of earnings, during each week for which the member is exempted or granted leave, equal to the weekly rate of pay calculated in accordance with instruction 205.461 of the Compensation and Benefits Instructions for the Canadian Forces established under section 35 of the National Defence Act;

and

For Part I (Reg F pension), see the Canadian Forces Superannuation Regulations (http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._396/FullText.html):

3(1) Days of Canadian Forces service are
(a) in the regular force, days of service for which pay was authorized to be paid and days of leave for maternity or parental purposes granted under the Queen’s Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces; and
...
(b) in the reserve force,
...
(ii) in the proportion determined under subsection (3), days in a period of exemption or leave referred to in paragraph 2(b) of the Reserve Force Pension Plan Regulations, and

See also S11, Service Without Pay, which goes into greater detail.

 

[Rheostatic]

Thanks for that.

Any insight on my first question? Can a class A reserve member be ED&T for a period of time, and then still be eligible to be ED&T For Parental Purposes (parental leave) later in the same year?

 

[dapaterson]

Nothing I see says you can't.  Local units have been known to deviate from the rules...

 

[jedib0p]

Does anyone know if the intent of the updated QR&O 16.14 is intended to affect the annual leave reduction during parental leave?

Previous to the update a members annual leave entitlement was reduced by 2 days per month. The new QR&O language could imply 3 annual days are forfeited for the first month and 2 for every month after while on parental.

QR&O 16.14 and the CF Leave Policy Manual were both amended 1 Apr 2015. The manual still has language that supports the leave reduction policy.

16.14 - ANNUAL LEAVE

(4) Subject to paragraph (7), an officer or non-commissioned member of the Regular Force is entitled to annual leave equivalent to

- in respect of each fiscal year, other than one in which they are enrolled in or transferred to the Regular Force or cease to serve in the Regular Force,

- if they have not completed five years of service, two working days for each month of paid service during that fiscal year, to a maximum of 20 working days,
- if they have completed at least five years but less than 28 years of service, two working days for each of the first 11 months of paid service during that fiscal year, and three working days for the 12th such month, to a maximum of 25 working days, and

 

[PuckChaser]

You gain an entitlement to the 25th annual leave day in March. If you pulled pin on 28 Feb, but had spent 25 annual already, you'd owe the Crown 3 annual days when they do the leave audit.

If you went on parental in December, you'd not be entitled to those 3 days in March, because you're on MATA/PATA. Did you somehow think you'd only forfeit 24 annual days, even though your entitlement is 25? I'm sure if you came back to work (completed the 12 months) before end Feb, you'd get those 3 days in March, so its fair for everyone.

 

[jedib0p]

From the CF Leave Policy Manual:

Effective 1 November 2008, annual leave shall be reduced at the following rates, for each complete calendar month of non-paid service granted or imposed in a fiscal year:
a. for members entitled to 20 or 25 days annual leave at the time when the member commences non-paid service – two days for each complete calendar month of non-paid service; or

Example. Member takes parental from mid June - mid September. Member would forfeit 4 days of annual leave entitlement (2 for July and 2 for August) giving him 21 annual days for the year.

Using the new QR&O language that member would only be entitled to 10 months of leave entitlement at 2 days per month for each month on payroll (at least partially). Only 20 annual days for the year.

 

[Strike]

So, here's one for you.  I burned off all my leave anticipating starting MATA/PATA at the end of March.  But now going in for a c-section for Wednesday.

Do I now owe days back?  And, if so, how many?