MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )

[Sub_Guy]

At least they got paid parental leave, unlike others.

True, but giving us next to no notice to sort out this issue is just plain unsat.  I just spoke with the clerk here, and the Oct 15th pay is processed tomorrow, so our clerks have to sort everything out today, I realize it is not the clerks fault, but someone has to be held accountable for mistakes like these.

 

[PMedMoe]

When I was a Private in Greenwood (many, many moons ago), I had a pay that half was taken off because apparently I hadn't been paying quarters for three months.  No notice so no choice to have it done in deductions.

I agree, that notice should have been given, but the message gives references for how to have the overpayment removed in monthly deductions vice one lump sum.

 

[PuckChaser]

Still crap, I think that's one they should have to eat, or if they're not going to eat it, they should be taking back the money from everyone who's ever gotten it, not just a certain amount of years.

They consulted the DJAG, as indicated in the post and they legally cannot take the money back after 5 years has lapsed. Moral of the story? If the CF screws up and overpays you, hide for 5 years and you get to keep it.

 

[Pusser]

When I was a Private in Greenwood (many, many moons ago), I had a pay that half was taken off because apparently I hadn't been paying quarters for three months.  No notice so no choice to have it done in deductions.

I agree, that notice should have been given, but the message gives references for how to have the overpayment removed in monthly deductions vice one lump sum.

That should never have happened.  I have always made it clear to any Fin/RMS Clks working for me that they were never to simply recover any significant amount of money from anyone without speaking to them first.  Yes, there are regulations that require recovery action in the case of overpayments, but there are no regulations that require being a d--k about it.  At the very least, everyone should be offered recovery at the same rate that it was overpaid and the regulations specifically allow this.

 

[Remius]

I'm curious to see how if at all they will recover this overpayment to members that have released since then.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

I'm curious to see how if at all they will recover this overpayment to members that have released since then.

Hmm. Me too. That being said I would only be owing about a days pay or so, but still, would like to see them try to get it off me. See you in small claims court methinks, where a judge might not take so kindly a view to their mistake, a mistake I had no way of noticing and pointing out to them, and one which they are trying to rectify 5 years after the fact (in my case).

 

[newwifey]

Apparently it's now been cancelled (for now).  Perhaps someone can confirm with the actual link.  This message was also posted on facebook.

"1. The subject message titled mata/pata calculation changes is cancelled.
2.The central computation pay system (ccps) changes implemented 20 sep 13 cannot be reversed. Consequently, 15 Oct 13 pay statements will reflect these changes. However pay offices are not repeat not to take any action to recover or pay out any monies concerning this mata/pata issue until further notice."

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

What CANFORGEN is this from?

 

[kratz]

What CANCORGEN is this from?

When did the Correctional Service of Canada start processing our pay?  ;D

 

[Towards_the_gap]

When did the Correctional Service of Canada start processing our pay?  ;D

Well it would certainly make a lot of sense actually  ;D

 

[Pusser]

Hmm. Me too. That being said I would only be owing about a days pay or so, but still, would like to see them try to get it off me. See you in small claims court methinks, where a judge might not take so kindly a view to their mistake, a mistake I had no way of noticing and pointing out to them, and one which they are trying to rectify 5 years after the fact (in my case).

Notwithstanding the clusterf**k this looks like it may turn into, the truth is that the Government can and does recover monies owed by former CF members.  The Financial Administration Act requires it.  Simply writing off a debt of this nature is well nigh impossible (there are exceptions of course, but the easiest way is to die without an estate).

Recovering overpayments from annuitants is simple.  If after the Government sends you a number of polite letters informing you of the debt, you have not repaid the amount, they simply take it off your pension cheque.

Recovering from non-annuitants is a little more difficult, but not impossible.  After asking you nicely, your case will be sent to a collection agency.  If that doesn't work, after one year, they take it off your income tax.

The lesson here is that unless you disappear from society completely, the Government will get its money (provided they find the error within six years - in that case, you get to keep it).

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I'm still waitng for the number that this CANFORGEN is as I can't find it thus far.

 

[The_Dictat]

P 301858Z SEP 13
FM NDHQ DMPAP OTTAWA
TO AIG 1760
BT
UNCLAS 005/13
SIC WAS
SUBJ: NDHQ DMPAP OTTAWA 004/13 251819Z SEP 13 CANCELLATION
1. THE SUBJECT MESSAGE TITLED MATA/PATA CALCULATION CHANGES IS
CANCELLED
2. THE CENTRAL COMPUTATION PAY SYSTEM (CCPS) CHANGES IMPLEMENTED 20
SEP 13 CANNOT BE REVERSED. CONSEQUENTLY, 15 OCT 13 PAY STATEMENTS
WILL REFLECT THESE CHANGES. HOWEVER PAY OFFICES ARE NOT REPEAT NOT TO
TAKE ANY ACTION TO RECOVER OR PAY OUT ANY AMOUNTS CONCERNING THIS
MATA/PATA ISSUE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Can't find it on the website

 

[dapaterson]

It wasn't a CANFORGEN, rather an AIG 1760 - as I recall, that's the Pay & Finance distribution list.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

That would explain it then.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Notwithstanding the clusterf**k this looks like it may turn into, the truth is that the Government can and does recover monies owed by former CF members.  The Financial Administration Act requires it.  Simply writing off a debt of this nature is well nigh impossible (there are exceptions of course, but the easiest way is to die without an estate).

Recovering overpayments from annuitants is simple.  If after the Government sends you a number of polite letters informing you of the debt, you have not repaid the amount, they simply take it off your pension cheque.

Recovering from non-annuitants is a little more difficult, but not impossible.  After asking you nicely, your case will be sent to a collection agency.  If that doesn't work, after one year, they take it off your income tax.

The lesson here is that unless you disappear from society completely, the Government will get its money (provided they find the error within six years - in that case, you get to keep it).

Hmm, thanks for the info, I honestly didn't think about that but makes perfect sense. A days pay at the MCpl 2 rate isn't worth that much hassle!!

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

From some big wig in Ottawa:

Good afternoon, I wanted to let you know that I just got out of a meeting regarding the mata/pata changes. I was asked to let you know that the AIG message that was sent out on this is being rescinded and an updated AIG message and CANFORGEN will be issued shortly with more detailed information for units.

MWO ....

 

[ArmyGuy99]

From some big wig in Ottawa:

Good afternoon, I wanted to let you know that I just got out of a meeting regarding the mata/pata changes. I was asked to let you know that the AIG message that was sent out on this is being rescinded and an updated AIG message and CANFORGEN will be issued shortly with more detailed information for units.

MWO ....

In other words, bad PR move, and how fast can we regurgitate our collective feet from our mouths?  Typical gov't.  Sounds like a bureaucrat tried to find a way to save some $$ on the backs of the employees without checking with the upper echelon or the political masters first.  Typical.

Oh well I'm just glad I didn't take any leave, not that I'd willingly give the $$ back anyway (I'm a non-annuitant).  I'd make them spend the $$ on the collection agency, and then spend more $$ to take it off my tax return.  They took enough $$ off my pay without asking while I was serving.  They can kiss my ..........

 

[DAA]

In other words, bad PR move, and how fast can we regurgitate our collective feet from our mouths?  Typical gov't.  Sounds like a bureaucrat tried to find a way to save some $$ on the backs of the employees without checking with the upper echelon or the political masters first.  Typical.

Oh well I'm just glad I didn't take any leave, not that I'd willingly give the $$ back anyway (I'm a non-annuitant).  I'd make them spend the $$ on the collection agency, and then spend more $$ to take it off my tax return.  They took enough $$ off my pay without asking while I was serving.  They can kiss my ..........

Has nothing to do with GoC.  This is all about CF members, dispensing information without realizing the implications.  I saw that message also, it was basically an "advisory" informing Orderly Rooms of changes that were going to be implemented within the Pay System (CCPS) that may or may not have resulted in a debit to MATA/PATA allowances on the affected members pay accounts.  What they failed to understand, was they should have waited for "clarification" on how to proceed should this occur.

Also more commonly known as "crying wolf"........

Further compounded by the postings that the message was "rescinded" but what no one has actually told you, was that the message was rescinded, the changes will still take effect but if it results in a "debit", that "recovery action" is NOT to be initiated until further notice.

So if you are currently in receipt of MATA/PATA benefits, you have nothing to worry about.