Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Spencer100]

I think the document sounds like 3 flights but the change is technology insertion more than change of the basic ship to me. Like new nav, computers, radars etc.

But who knows the build is 20 years long. I just thought it was an idea. My main point is now a class of 25+ similar ships. That would help and keep the price down plus help with the orphan fleet problem. Companies willing to keep spares etc.

 

[AirDet]

Love this as an MCM ship.

MCM Ship for Belgian/Dutch

Ya, I've been looking at that too. Has anyone found and detailed specs. I like the idea that it serves as a mother ship for various drones which do the mine work. The possibilities are endless for us.

 

[JMCanada]

Has anyone found and detailed specs.

This report is dated 2019, but guess it may help. A brief toolbox description is included.

This is what the Future Belgian & Dutch MCM Motherships will Look Like - Naval News

The Belgian Ministry of Defense recently contracted the consortium Belgian Naval & Robotics (formed by Naval Group & ECA Group) to supply 12 vessels and associated equipment to the Belgian and Dutch Navies. Naval Group shared some detailed images of the future vessels with us. Here is what can...

www.navalnews.com

 

[AirDet]

This report is dated 2019, but guess it may help. A brief toolbox description is included.

This is what the Future Belgian & Dutch MCM Motherships will Look Like - Naval News

The Belgian Ministry of Defense recently contracted the consortium Belgian Naval & Robotics (formed by Naval Group & ECA Group) to supply 12 vessels and associated equipment to the Belgian and Dutch Navies. Naval Group shared some detailed images of the future vessels with us. Here is what can...

www.navalnews.com

I reaad that article too. She looks like an excellent candidate for the type of work the MCDV was originally intended for. There's still no raw specs so we'd be guessing if this platform could fulfill the evolved uses of the MCDV.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I reaad that article too. She looks like an excellent candidate for the type of work the MCDV was originally intended for. There's still no raw specs so we'd be guessing if this platform could fulfill the evolved uses of the MCDV.

The main gun is too big for us - sarcasm....

I mean is the Belgians/Dutch put a 40mm gun on a ship that is going to be used overwhelming in the English Channel and the North Sea approaches to the Baltic, then there is no reason why we shouldn't recycles the 57's on our new MCDV when the times comes.

 

[AirDet]

The main gun is too big for us - sarcasm....

I mean is the Belgians/Dutch put a 40mm gun on a ship that is going to be used overwhelming in the English Channel and the North Sea approaches to the Baltic, then there is no reason why we shouldn't recycles the 57's on our new MCDV when the times comes.

The 57 is an excellent weapon system. Would such a small ship support almost triple (estimated) the weight for just one weapon system? I'd be willing to bet that this revolutionary ship will catch the eye of the rest of Europe and NATO. Who knows what systems others will choose to integrate into the hull.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The 57 is an excellent weapon system. Would such a small ship support almost triple (estimated) the weight for just one weapon system? I'd be willing to bet that this revolutionary ship will catch the eye of the rest of Europe and NATO. Who knows what systems others will choose to integrate into the hull.

Here's some recent news on the steel cutting ceremony and more info on the stats of the ships.

First Steel Cutting Ceremony For Dutch-Belgian MCM program - Naval News

A steel cutting ceremony for the Belgian Navy and Royal Netherlands Navy mine countermeasure vessel (MCM) program was held at Crist Shipyard in Gdynia (Poland), on July 19. The first steel sheet was cut for the Belgian Navy's first-in-class MCM vessel.

www.navalnews.com

First Steel Cutting Ceremony For Dutch-Belgian MCM Program​

A steel cutting ceremony for the Belgian Navy and Royal Netherlands Navy mine countermeasure vessel (MCM) program was held at Crist Shipyard in Gdynia (Poland), on July 19. The first steel sheet was cut for the Belgian Navy's first-in-class MCM vessel.​

The mothership itself is 82 meters long with a displacement of 2,500 tons and a crew complement of 30 sailors (total accommodation for 63 people). It is fitted with a Bofors 40Mk4 40m main gun system, FN Herstal’ Sea deFNder 12.7mm remote weapon stations, an NS50 radar by Thales, Sea Eagle EO/IR by Chess Dynamics, Saab TactiCall Communication System, and a platform for SKELDAR V-200 VTOL UAV.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Interesting solution for drones/UAV on smaller vessels

DJI Drones for Boats: New Tethered Drone System Enables a Mavic 2 to Take-Off and Land on Small Vessels [VIDEO]

DJI drones for boats: a new tethered drone system from Volarious enables a Mavic 2 to take-off and land autonomously on small vessels.

dronelife.com

 

[PuckChaser]

DJI drones should not be used anywhere near military assets, full stop. Unless of course you want it feeding ISR directly to China saving them the effort of hacking it out of our networks.

 

[Navy_Pete]

DJI drones should not be used anywhere near military assets, full stop. Unless of course you want it feeding ISR directly to China saving them the effort of hacking it out of our networks.

I think we should have all of Navy tech 'stolen' by China and see them deal with the impacts of trying to figure out how the hell a mod 9 (of 2) EC with particularizations for each ship (plus non-compliant flow through mistakes as redlines) works. If we could somehow combine that with them 'stealing' our 'procurement best practices' they'd fall apart within weeks.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The 57 is an excellent weapon system. Would such a small ship support almost triple (estimated) the weight for just one weapon system? I'd be willing to bet that this revolutionary ship will catch the eye of the rest of Europe and NATO. Who knows what systems others will choose to integrate into the hull.

Turns out that the weight of these Bel/Dut ships is 2,500t, so yes they should be easily handle the weight of a 57 when they are able to handle the weight of the 40's they are installing.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Question: assuming, as I do, that almost every ship ought to have organic aircraft embarked at (almost) all times, and assuming, as I also do, that really capable maritime helicopters are quite large, should we be designing smaller combatants (say 2,000 - 3,000 tons displacement) to embark and use UAVs rather than conventional, human crewed, helicopters?

(I'm also assuming that we actually need 20+ combat ships, that we will be lucky to get 10 of the Type 26 combat ships, that the AOPS are constabulary vice combat ships, and that, therefore, we will need 10+ general purpose small combatants (corvettes or OPS for those who hate the word corvette because it harks back to cheap and dirty).)

 

[Underway]

Question: assuming, as I do, that almost every ship ought to have organic aircraft embarked at (almost) all times, and assuming, as I also do, that really capable maritime helicopters are quite large, should we be designing smaller combatants (say 2,000 - 3,000 tons displacement) to embark and use UAVs rather than conventional, human crewed, helicopters?

For many tasks that is likely the future. Right now UAV's are very specific in their roles. They do one job. Helicopters are much more flexible. But the ship size is not based on the helicopter size. The ship size is based on all the other things you want a ship to do and what you need to put in it to do those things. The helicopter is only one part of that equation. Remember we used to take Sea Kings on 3000t steamers because the steamers were ASW specialists.

I'm waiting for some nation to design the "drone carrier", though likely that would look like an LHD or something anyways. RoK had a carrier competition and one of the designs has a dedicated space for launch and recovery of smaller UAV's. Some new ships have a separate hanger bay door for the UAV and helicopter. Likely the hangar is one big space but that says something about UAV's management.

(I'm also assuming that we actually need 20+ combat ships, that we will be lucky to get 10 of the Type 26 combat ships, that the AOPS are constabulary vice combat ships, and that, therefore, we will need 10+ general purpose small combatants (corvettes or OPS for those who hate the word corvette because it harks back to cheap and dirty).)

AOPS are constabulary. The RCN classifies them as non-combatants (like we do with MCDV's). OPV's (or OPS') and corvettes are different classifications these days as corvettes are supposed to be combatants and OPV's are supposed to be constabulary. Though the lines blur like they always do between classes as ships seem to refuse to be pigeonholed these days.

 

[KevinB]

Maybe it is just me - but I would think that any Navy ships should be combatant craft - with constabulary duties secondary - and ships designed for non combatant roles be run by the Coast Guard, Ocean and Fisheries, etc...

 

[Edward Campbell]

Thanks, Underway, that's most helpful; but it begs another question: is there a general purpose maritime UAV on the drawing boards, somewhere?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

DJI drones should not be used anywhere near military assets, full stop. Unless of course you want it feeding ISR directly to China saving them the effort of hacking it out of our networks.

DJI gets used for this sort of stuff because it is the most common and best retail drone out there for the price. Not to mention a huge forum of people who are trying out new stuff all the time with them. It's the tech they are using, the powered tether and assisted landing that is of interest.

 

[Underway]

Thanks, Underway, that's most helpful; but it begs another question: is there a general purpose maritime UAV on the drawing boards, somewhere?

US most likely has if one exists at all. The Firescout is an interesting take that does RMP (recognized maritime picture) and can carry weapons. But even crewed aircraft are fairly specialized. Cyclone can do PAX transfer, some cargo, RMP and ASW. There is a door gun as well. But it can only do most of those roles because it carries people.

There are UAV's that have payload changes. Swap out the attachments and it does something different. Right now though for the RCN we seem to just focus on the straightforward RMP, which is completely fine. Knowing who's who in the zoo is so important.

I've discussed on this board a few times about a AEW type UAV which could be like CROWSNEST could be very important for RCN task group survival, giving non-carriers a carrier-type capability (not to sidetrack to much on the MCDV thread).

 

[Stoker]

Maybe it is just me - but I would think that any Navy ships should be combatant craft - with constabulary duties secondary - and ships designed for non combatant roles be run by the Coast Guard, Ocean and Fisheries, etc...

We would if our CG actually guarded something....

 

[Navy_Pete]

AOPS are constabulary. The RCN classifies them as non-combatants (like we do with MCDV's). OPV's (or OPS') and corvettes are different classifications these days as corvettes are supposed to be combatants and OPV's are supposed to be constabulary. Though the lines blur like they always do between classes as ships seem to refuse to be pigeonholed these days.

It's also dependent on how willing the country is for the ship to survive combat. The classic combatant includes a lot of recoverability/survivability requirements that include things like shock resistance, compartmentalization, reconfiguarbility etc that significantly exceed SOLAS (which also drives larger crews for the DC side).

Some countries have OPVs built to commercial standards with none of those recoverability standards apply, and basically accept that they are likely to lose the ship if it sustains significant damage, so they just try and make it safe enough for people to evacuate in a damaged scenario, and beef up some countermeasures to try and avoid damage to start with. But with some of the warheads or heavy weight torpedos, it's somewhat academic regardless as they are big enough to render any corvette size ship into shavings and have a big enough shock wave to pulp the crew, even if it's not a direct hit.

 

[dimsum]

But with some of the warheads or heavy weight torpedos, it's somewhat academic regardless as they are big enough to render any corvette size ship into shavings and have a big enough shock wave to pulp the crew, even if it's not a direct hit.

Yep.

This is what happens when a small destroyer (so still larger than a Corvette) gets hit by one Mk 48 torpedo - the same that the RCN uses: