Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Colin Parkinson]

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Beyond the MCDV replacement, I would equip certain Naval Reserve Unit with 3 vessels each, A fast RHIB with a pintle mount for MG or a RWS for an MG, along with an enclosed wheelhouse. A commercial based hull for mine hunting 50-70' and overnight capable simple training vessel similar to the YAG, for the unit and local Cadet corps to training on. Have them all serviced in commercial yards nearby.

 

[blacktriangle]

We should buy that thing, scuttle it for an artificial reef, and have current & former CAF members swim to shore in return for donations to Soldier On or something.

What a hunk of trash!

 

[daftandbarmy]

We should buy that thing, scuttle it for an artificial reef, and have current & former CAF members swim to shore in return for donations to Soldier On or something.

What a hunk of trash!

Ever the romantic....

I know a few senior sailors who wax lyrical about learning their trade on the open bridge of one of these.

I recall that, in cadets, we used to deploy on exercises on these occasionally around Vancouver. They were great for loading up with about 30 people and going places to do things in pretty tricky 'littoral' regions, and crappy weather. They were pretty fast in some rough conditions too.

I assume that the wooden hull helped with the anti-mine role, but am not sure if that was one of the tasks they were charged with.

 

[Good2Golf]

Not sure if that one was the one that I fed the fish on, out at W601 many, many years ago on an environmental experience day via NOTC. I’m not a naval architect by any stretch, but the hull seemed to be a half barrel profile with minimal separation between CofG and CofB, hence a name of ‘Rolly McRollboat’ wouldn’t have been wrong…should be a YAK…not YAG.

 

[dimsum]

I know a few senior sailors who wax lyrical about learning their trade on the open bridge of one of these.

Open bridges are only fun when the weather is nice.

Trust me on this.

 

[Underway]

Ever the romantic....

I know a few senior sailors who wax lyrical about learning their trade on the open bridge of one of these.

I recall that, in cadets, we used to deploy on exercises on these occasionally around Vancouver. They were great for loading up with about 30 people and going places to do things in pretty tricky 'littoral' regions, and crappy weather. They were pretty fast in some rough conditions too.

I assume that the wooden hull helped with the anti-mine role, but am not sure if that was one of the tasks they were charged with.

I wax lyrical about it. The time it was so cold that when the spray hit the open bridge it was frozen into ice pellets that blinded me while trying to take a fix. The time a seagull did what seagulls do to my carefully prepared chart. The time during a fire ex we ripped the manual pump in half because the deck was so rotten under the paint. The fact the gyro was off by 6 degrees high on a regular basis. The time we were stranded up island because the electrical shorted out and we had no navigation at all, had to wait for the other YAG to make a run for supplies so we could fix it.

Hmmm, maybe it wasn't always good...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That's some good learning there. Gives you appreciation for the guys that ran the MTB/MGB's during the war. An open bridge gives you excellent visibility and awareness to your immediate surroundings, but for extended ops, will wear down the crew quickly. Better to have the option. The Bridge on the YFP/YAGs generally was used for lookouts and the CO was in the wheelhouse in my day.

Back to the subject, with the AOP's coming on line, perhaps time to split the roles of the MCDV into two hull sizes, one coastal, the other capable of going overseas, but still smaller than the AOP's. Supplementing the newer MCDV with small craft that can be built to commercial standards and maintained in local yards and manned mostly by reservists seems to a potentiel way to go.

 

[Maxman1]

What about the USS Freedom class? Designed specifically to be modular and adaptable to a long number of missions, including mine countermeasures, while being larger and faster with the same or less crew size and plenty of accommodation, and a similar armament to the Halifax frigates. We could tack on an order of six or a dozen direct from the US, since our shipyards will be busy with the AOPS and CSC.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

What about the USS Freedom class? Designed specifically to be modular and adaptable to a long number of missions, including mine countermeasures, while being larger and faster with the same or less crew size and plenty of accommodation, and a similar armament to the Halifax frigates. We could tack on an order of six or a dozen direct from the US, since our shipyards will be busy with the AOPS and CSC.

Please god, no.

The USN opted for an un trialed gearbox/engine combination and literally eat up gearboxes at a shocking rate. They are ditching the entire class because it does not work.

 

[Maxman1]

No, they're retiring the Freedom and Fort Worth because they decided in 2015 they, along with the Independence and Coronado would be test ships.

"We made a decision a number of years ago. … In order to give capability to LCS 5 and beyond, particularly the block buys we did in 2015, we decided we needed to do much more testing and use those first four hulls, so that we could better understand what were the issues with respect to hull maintenance and engineering that kept plaguing us and kept us from getting those ships to sea. … We used those first hulls to test and we put no money into upgrading them like the rest of the fleet. … Those first four ships are not bringing lethality to the fight. … I just didn’t see the return on investment.”
- Admiral Mike Gilday, Chief of Naval Operations

They've paused construction of new ships while they fix the transmission issue. There are no plans to cancel any orders or decommission any more than the first two.

What about the French Gowind corvette/frigate class?

 

[Kirkhill]

No, they're retiring the Freedom and Fort Worth because they decided in 2015 they, along with the Independence and Coronado would be test ships.



They've paused construction of new ships while they fix the transmission issue. There are no plans to cancel any orders or decommission any more than the first two.

What about the French Gowind corvette/frigate class?

If buying a US LCS I would sooner you referenced the Independence class trimaran as an option. It has a better record. But it isn't a blue water ship. And all Canada's waters are blue water.

 

[Underway]

I'm with @SeaKingTacco on this. Those ships have a reputation for expensive lemons that lead to overworked crews. I've met a few crew and they say yes while shaking their heads no. I don't even know if they can properly handle northern latitude sea states. Also so much aluminum...

Besides after AOPS and JSS whatever is the replacement will be relatively simple to build in Canadian yards. The Kiwi's are currently sailing a Canadian-designed OPV which would likely fit the bill (as mentioned earlier in the thread) and is already in service in two countries.

 

[YZT580]

perhaps resurrecting the Bras D'Or. Except they do burn through a lot of fuel, but then again we need a market for our Western Oil anyways since there are no pipelines to ship it through to market. Heddle could crank them out in both Port Weller and in Thunder Bay which would ease the employment crunch there with Bombardier slashing everything

 

[Underway]

Bras D'Or was a great technology demonstrator. But it could carry very few crew and the hydrofoil couldn't handle the pressure it was under. It also had no space for any weapons or equipment at all. You can go see it in Quebec. It's like the Avro Arrow. Super cool, good new tech, not developed enough for a practical application. Which of course leads to a myth about how it was super amazing without looking at the negatives.

 

[Weinie]

Bras D'Or was a great technology demonstrator. But it could carry very few crew and the hydrofoil couldn't handle the pressure it was under. It also had no space for any weapons or equipment at all. You can go see it in Quebec. It's like the Avro Arrow. Super cool, good new tech, not developed enough for a practical application. Which of course leads to a myth about how it was super amazing without looking at the negatives.

This.

 

[YZT580]

This.

I am going to have to try and master the sarcasm button. Over the last two weeks I think it has been suggested that we buy one of everything going except the Queen Elizabeth.

 

[Maxman1]

I'm with @SeaKingTacco on this. Those ships have a reputation for expensive lemons that lead to overworked crews. I've met a few crew and they say yes while shaking their heads no. I don't even know if they can properly handle northern latitude sea states. Also so much aluminum...

Besides after AOPS and JSS whatever is the replacement will be relatively simple to build in Canadian yards. The Kiwi's are currently sailing a Canadian-designed OPV which would likely fit the bill (as mentioned earlier in the thread) and is already in service in two countries.

What about the Israeli Sa'ar 6 version of the Braunschweig corvette? Or the (suspiciously large) Finnish Pohjanmaa corvette?

 

[Swampbuggy]

I suppose one answer to the question of deployable ships would be to take the 2 CCG AOPS (if they even still intend to build them) and repurpose them to the RCN. I'm dubious about how much you can expect 6 hulls to handle (re: AOPS) when considering their intended missions, taking over some MCDV stuff AND possibly spelling off frigates. Maybe take advantage of the hot line and get something that the Navy is already familiar with, without having to do a rush RFP purchase job?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As soon as the senior staff figure how comfortable the AOP's are, they be Command function ships.

 

[Underway]

As soon as the senior staff figure how comfortable the AOP's are, they be Command function ships.

Yah, that's gonna be JSS well before AOPS even gets a sniff. However, the CONOPS for AOPS includes flotilla command for an MCM squadron.