Mandatory H1N1 shots for soldiers could violate Charter - CTV News

[Armymedic]

Regardless of historical context, which is quite interesting, this particular pandemic has potential to be very bad.

Right now, in the US, the CDC is giving a fatality rate from H1N1 at about 1 in 1000 cases, with almost all being people who are under 40 years old.

Given that our military population is in the majority under 40, it would be prudent for all of us to get the vaccine when it finally arrives on base. It should no debate what-so-ever for anyone who is on a base where young troops are living tightly in barracks (i.e. St Jean, Borden, Kingston, Wainwright, Gagetown, etc)

We have approx 50, 000 people in the CF. Without vaccination, if 10% get H1N1 (5000 people) we can expect about 5 people will die from the disease, 500 will be hospitalized by serious lung issues.

Anyone want to be responsible for those deaths, cause they want to be a rebel?

 

[PMedMoe]

I'm getting mine tomorrow.  :nod:

 

[mariomike]

How's this for a coincidence? On 21 Oct 2009, Walmart starting selling caskets online:
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=0&ic=48_0&search_query=caskets&Find.x=10&Find.y=11&Find=Find

 

[Braver.Stronger.Smarter.]

Anyone want to be responsible for those deaths, cause they want to be a rebel?

Although I'm not a soldier living on a base, for me, and probably for a lot of those soldiers that you are speaking of, it's not about being a rebel. It's simply about a lack of information and testing. Right now, with the amount of information that I don't have, I wouldn't feel comfortable getting the vaccine injected into my body. One of my biggest worries is the lack of long-term testing. It's possible that there could be major health problems later on for everyone that did get the vaccine and I'd prefer to remain vaccine-less until I see the results of some more studies.

 

[medicineman]

As promised, I'm giving my sitrep - arm is sore, but otherwise I'm still alive and well.  Just going to snivel for a bit at home.

TTFN.

MM

 

[OldSolduer]

As promised, I'm giving my sitrep - arm is sore, but otherwise I'm still alive and well.  Just going to snivel for a bit at home.

TTFN.

MM

hahaha....well you are a medic aren't you?? joke!

 

[medicineman]

Oh well - really, it's no worse than a tetanus shot - feels like a bruise.  Can't snivel too much though - wife has me beat as we had to put one of her dogs down today.

Now gotta organize a needle parade at my current adoptive unit.

MM

 

[stukirkpatrick]

My arm is sore as well after I got it today - that's why I had them inject my non-gun arm.

Mind you, I got the "real" vaccine, rather than the one for the paranoid masses ;D

 

[PMedMoe]

According to an email from our Adj, the CF has adopted an active refusal policy that requires members to attend an immunization parade but can accept or refuse the vaccine.  So don't be surprised if you are ordered to a needle parade.

For those of you who think this is an "untested" vaccine, it's the exact same as the influenza vaccines of the past several years.  This year's (H1N1) will be a more effective vaccine because they know what strain is dominant.

Here is some info from Health Canada:

FAQ H1N1

Edit to add:  Just got both shots (H1N1 and regular flu vaccine).

 

[medicineman]

Forgot to update yesterday - still alive and not incapacitated  umpkin:.

MM

 

[PMedMoe]

still alive and not incapacitated

Me too.  Both arms slightly sore, not as bad as last night.  Same as any other IM vaccine.

 

[Journeyman]

Edit to add:  Just got both shots (H1N1 and regular flu vaccine).

So you got the NWO tracking chip as well?!  Zombie!!

 

[medicineman]

There isn't really a tracking chip - just makes you more paranoid about one if you forget to keep the GPS jammer on your cell phone activated...

MM

 

[PMedMoe]

So you got the NWO tracking chip as well?!  Zombie!!

And a free tinfoil hat, too!!  ;D

 

[Braver.Stronger.Smarter.]

From the Health Canada page that PMedMoe posted - emphasis added:

"Prior to market authorization of a new vaccine, the manufacturer must file a submission with scientific and clinical evidence that demonstrates that the vaccine’s health benefits outweigh the risks and that the vaccine is effective and of suitable quality for Canadians."
As we are currently in a pandemic, Stage 6, I can see why the health authorities would believe that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks, however, I don't believe that that necessarily means that it is safe. It is simply safer than having the whole world break out with H1N1.

"In Canada, data required to support approval of the pandemic vaccine will include at a minimum...clinical data in humans from a small safety and immunogenicity study to indicate that the H1N1 flu vaccine is safe..."
This was honestly one of the few things that I could find on that webpage that gave details about the testing that was done. I think people would feel a lot more comfortable with getting the vaccine if Health Canada would release the results of some of the studies that were done. It would probably sway all of the people that are "sitting on the fence" and from my first-hand experience, that's a lot of people.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So, lets pretend you are ordered to get the shot, to prevent you from becoming sick - N/S.  You don't get it, and get sick...

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol2/ch103_e.asp#103.31

Probably a long shot but....

 

[Occam]

So, lets pretend you are ordered to get the shot, to prevent you from becoming sick - N/S.  You don't get it, and get sick...

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol2/ch103_e.asp#103.31

Probably a long shot but....

A very long shot, IMO...as the QR&O is currently written.  Who is to say that someone who refused the vaccine wouldn't have been infected even if they had been vaccinated?

 

[dangerboy]

Of course if you are ordered to get the shot and refuse then there is this:

103.58 – REFUSING IMMUNIZATION, TESTS, BLOOD EXAMINATION OR TREATMENT
  103.58 – REFUS D’IMMUNISATION OU D’EXAMENS MÉDICAUX

(1) Section 126 of the National Defence Act provides:
  (1) L’article 126 de la Loi sur la défense nationale prescrit :

  "126. Every person who, on receiving an order to submit to inoculation, re-inoculation, vaccination, revaccination, other immunization procedures, immunity tests, blood examination or treatment against any infectious disease, willfully and without reasonable excuse disobeys that order is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to imprisonment for less than two years or to less punishment."

 

[Occam]

Of course if you are ordered to get the shot and refuse then there is this:

103.58 – REFUSING IMMUNIZATION, TESTS, BLOOD EXAMINATION OR TREATMENT
  103.58 – REFUS D’IMMUNISATION OU D’EXAMENS MÉDICAUX

(1) Section 126 of the National Defence Act provides:
  (1) L’article 126 de la Loi sur la défense nationale prescrit :

  "126. Every person who, on receiving an order to submit to inoculation, re-inoculation, vaccination, revaccination, other immunization procedures, immunity tests, blood examination or treatment against any infectious disease, willfully and without reasonable excuse disobeys that order is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to imprisonment for less than two years or to less punishment."

Ah, but keep on reading QR&O 103.58 ...

NOTES

(A) No authority exists whereby a person can be forced actually to undergo inoculation, etc., although he can be ordered to submit himself to such a procedure. Failure of a person to submit to inoculation. etc., in spite of an order requiring him to do so, would constitute an offence on his part. “Reasonable excuse” is a defence to a charge under section 126 of the National Defence Act.
(5 June 2008)

Can anyone elaborate what the difference is between "undergo inoculation" and "submit to inoculation"??

 

[PMedMoe]

Yeah, well, no need to jump the gun yet.  No one is being ordered to get the vaccine, although, they are being encouraged.

Occam, I think that's just bad writing.  I think it means that you can be ordered to an Immunization Parade but you are not under any requirement to actually receive the vaccine.

Of course, a lot of people would be DAGged "red" if they refused required vaccinations.