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Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread

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Zipper said:
As above. Their called tax laws. And if you don't like it. Don't vote for them. And I don't think they know what is better for YOU then you do. But they may have a better idea of what society as a whole needs better then you do.

Hate to break it to you, but Canadian (or any other) society is not a monolith: it is made up of 30 something million "yous".  Government doesn't know better what the needs and wants of any of these individuals separately (except possibly the mentally retarded), so why would it know any more when they are taken in aggregate?  The theoretical maximum wealth of a society is simply the aggregation of all individuals acting to maximize their own rational self-interest; thus, any perversion of this, that is, anyone artificially restricted from maximizing their own wealth, necessarily destroys the total actual wealth in that society.
 
What form of twisted philosophy are you reading? Or is that from Adam's economics? As for the "yous" and government. They can only act upon what the majority of the "yous" demand and then vote for.

I suggest you read European Dream by Rifkin. It takes a good look at the American dream and the new European dream and does a comparison. No he doesn't fall on one side or the other, but he does a good job of looking at the pro's and con's of each.
 
Then if this were the case (Which I do not think has ever happened except for the first 30 seconds after the US constitution was signed), why is it that the US federal government has so much power over the people? All they have to say is "national security" and suddenly they have camera's and police everywhere and neighbors turning in each other on suspician of speaking against the government (terrorism).

BS - Please tell me your own, PERSONAL experience in this

If an American was on here making such generalizations about Canada, some of you guys would be crying up a storm. All of my life, I heard how "arrogant" the Americans were, making their dumb, redneck suppositions about life in Canada. Seems the arrogance has found its way north. I've never encountered so many "experts" on life in the US, as I have on this board. For the umpteenth time, I have lived in the US for almost 15 years, and have never seen this stuff that some of you guys come up with.  ::)
 
Yeah, Muskrat, seems like everyone outside of the US is an expert on what life there is like.  We get a lot of tourists here from the UK and Germany, and some of the things I hear from those people are just mind-blowing.  They all seem convinced that if a cop sees you jaywalking, a squad of SWAT officers will rappel down from a chopper, drag you away, and throw you in a hole in the ground in Gunatanimo Bay for the next 80 years.

Zipper said:
Actually its called democracy. That ideal form of government that we have these days and are thus forced to live with.

Actually, no, Zipper, that's not a democracy at all.  What you're describing is Mob Rule.  True, a democracy is a system where the people decide who will represent them.  It is NOT a system where groups of people can impose their will on other groups whenever they so chose.  When my money is taken away from me, wether "by law" or at the point of a gun, in order to pay for a program of some special interest group or another, that's not a democracy.  It's either Mob Rule or Communism....which are pretty similar anyway.  Otherwise, what's to stop say, my regiment from walking into a bar, and taking all the beer we want without paying for it?  After all, we're in the majority, therefore we should be able to do what we want, right?  That's you idea of "democracy" at a smaller level.

Zipper said:
As above. Their called tax laws. And if you don't like it. Don't vote for them. And I don't think they know what is better for YOU then you do. But they may have a better idea of what society as a whole needs better then you do.

When's the last time you voted for increased taxes?



The ONLY thing we seem to agree on so far is the idea of work-fare instead of welfare.  I have no problem sponsoring a program to put people to work.  What I DO have a problem with is paying people to sit on their ass.  I once knew a guy once who'd work 6 months out of every year, then intentionaly get himself fired so he could spend the next 6 months at his parents cottage fishing, drinking beer, and collecting unemployment insurance.  He is the ultimate result of the nanny-state;  why work when you can play?
 
48Highlander said:
When's the last time you voted for increased taxes?

I think the majority did when we voted in the last election?

I once knew a guy once who'd work 6 months out of every year, then intentionaly get himself fired so he could spend the next 6 months at his parents cottage fishing, drinking beer, and collecting unemployment insurance.   He is the ultimate result of the nanny-state;   why work when you can play?

His name wasn't Steve was it? Sounds alot like that friend I referred too. Except the work-fare put a stop to that and allowed him to re-train in something he was finally good at (graphic design). Now he has money, a job, and travels more then I do (bastard).

As for the American bashing. They have alot of things that work fine. Some that work fine for what THEY want to accept, and other things that do not work.

The things that work are usually ignored. The things THEY accept that many outside of the US do not are focused upon, and those that do not work are flogged about like a dead horse. What else is new.

My point was. The freedoms of the individual down there did not survive the control of the government especially when they bring out the "national security" mantra. So to say that our government controls us any more then their's does down there is rather silly. Our government is just going in a different direction then they are by the will of the people. If this were not so, then they would been voted out long ago.

It also doesn't mean I agree with our government on all issues either, whether it is civil, provincial, or federal.
 
Zipper said:
I think the majority did when we voted in the last election?

Actually, in the last election I was promised no tax increas.  In the one before that too.  Both times they broke the promise.  Try again?

Zipper said:
His name wasn't Steve was it? Sounds alot like that friend I referred too. Except the work-fare put a stop to that and allowed him to re-train in something he was finally good at (graphic design). Now he has money, a job, and travels more then I do (bastard).

No, not Steve :P

Zipper said:
My point was. The freedoms of the individual down there did not survive the control of the government especially when they bring out the "national security" mantra. So to say that our government controls us any more then their's does down there is rather silly. Our government is just going in a different direction then they are by the will of the people. If this were not so, then they would been voted out long ago.

Right.  You must not have been paying attention to what's happened in Canada since September 11th.  The Canadian government has implemented the following bill's:  C-36 C-35 C-7 and C-45.  Go look them up.  They're our version of the Patriot Act, and give us even more leway when persecuting "terrorists" than the Americans have.  Before you go pointing the finger at the US, get to know what your own country is doing.
 
Brad Sallows said:
fundamental human rights are in fact inalienable (and not something granted by government)

Is this true though?   If the Charter isn't around to guarantee them (vis-a-vis the State) and/or the State itself is non-existent, then do they exist within a Hobbesian State of Nature?
 
I will avoid appeals to Adam Smith, Pericles, Ayn Rand or other historical/literary/philosophical figures zipper, and ask you a practical question in two parts:

1. If, as you say, the Government's job is to look after ALL the people, reflect on the "Billion Dollar Boondoggle", Shawinigate, Adscam or putting seven billion tax dollars out of Parliament and the Auditor General's perview through the creation of "foundations" (which have been strangely silent for all these years), then tell us, who exactly is being looked after here?

2. The examples listed above add up to over $10.1 Billion dollars CDN. I'm sure a quick read over the news archives can pull up many billions of more tax dollars spent on equally dubious causes by our government. If health care is your priority (based on past posts), how is allowing this much money to be diverted from the private economy helping health care?

I am with John Gault and the rest of the libertarian crowd here in thinking that if the people who created that $10.1 billion dollars in wealth had kept it and spent or invested it as they saw fit, we would all be better off, happier, healthier, with a mostest increase in our standard of living and perhaps even a government which actually did its job and looked after the security of Canada.
 
Zipper said:
What form of twisted philosophy are you reading? Or is that from Adam's economics? As for the "yous" and government. They can only act upon what the majority of the "yous" demand and then vote for.
By "Adam's economics" are you referring to Adam Smith?  I've never in my life heard it called "Adam's economics", which really make me wonder how much you know about it ... the twisted philosophy I am actually referring to represents the ideas of Adam Smith, Hayek, von Mises, Friedman, the Austrian School, the Chicago School, the School of Salamanca, Locke, Franklin, Rousseau, Burke, Ricardo, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and other assorted "social individualists, libertarians, extropians, futurists, 'Porcupines', Karl Popper fetishists, recovering neo-conservatives, crazed Ayn Rand worshipers, over-caffeinated Virginia Postrel devotees, witty Frédéric Bastiat wannabes, cypherpunks, minarchists, kritarchists and wild-eyed anarcho-capitalists from Britain, North America, Australia and Europe."*  ;)

I suggest you read European Dream by Rifkin. It takes a good look at the American dream and the new European dream and does a comparison. No he doesn't fall on one side or the other, but he does a good job of looking at the pro's and con's of each.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry: Jeremey Rifkin is a well-known neo-Luddite nutjob who at one time was the personal advisor to the President of the EC.  The full title of his latest gormless diatribe book is The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, which would take a herculean effort of willful ignorance to think that "he doesn't fall on one side or the other."  This is the guy Time Magazine called "the most hated man in science" for his various crusades ...
Instead of changing tacks (every time your arguments are defeated), maybe you should consider chaning your methodology: instead of searching for arguments to fit your conclusions, try drawing conclusions from the evidence as it exists ... it might even lead you to question the validity of your existing conclusions!  ;D

a_majoor said:
1. If, as you say, the Government's job is to look after ALL the people, reflect on the "Billion Dollar Boondoggle", Shawinigate, Adscam or putting seven billion tax dollars out of Parliament and the Auditor General's perview through the creation of "foundations" (which have been strangely silent for all these years), then tell us, who exactly is being looked after here?
Let us not forget also the billion dollars 'misplaced' in failing to track land claims settlements through Indian Affairs.


*Stole the last part from Samizdata.net; kinda long, but it flows so well ...
 
a_majoor said:
1. If, as you say, the Government's job is to look after ALL the people, reflect on the "Billion Dollar Boondoggle", Shawinigate, Adscam or putting seven billion tax dollars out of Parliament and the Auditor General's perview through the creation of "foundations" (which have been strangely silent for all these years), then tell us, who exactly is being looked after here?

Well there's a simple solution.  Just stop voting for 'em!
 
Yeah, Look at the mess we are in now...Mr Dithers is going to try and make a deal with the Smartypants from Toronto.... :skull:
 
Majoor - No arguement here. I've never said I have supported the liberal's and all their ideas/fiasco's/wastes. I agree, don't vote for them. On that issue, I would just argue that it is not only the Liberal's who have done these things in the past. Yes they are the latest pigs at the trough, but hardly the first or the last. Is there time up? Maybe. In some ways I hope so.

John - Oh nice come back there. :salute:  ;D Your reference to many sources is fine. Doesn't mean I would agree with all of them, of course. ::)

I find alot of todays run away economics and consumerist ideals rather stupid. Whatever happened to building something right the first time out of a material that lasts? Instead they make it out of plastic so that it only lasts 3-5 years and then you need to buy a new one. Give me metal!! And why can't the kids today wear hand me downs? I did! Sheesh!!

Yes Rifkin is rather contriversal down there. Hell, anyone left of Frum and Coultor are controversal down there. But I'll stick by him in this book as presenting some good ideas and not weighing in on one side or the other to much. Or are you to stuck in your thinking to even look at something that is NOT the American dream?

As for my arguments being defeated. I don't think so. I just realize that I am not going to change anyones mind here, so why try and argue something to death and let it get nasty. But something has to be said at times to somehow balance your (To me) extreme right wing neo-conservative ideals. Considering the fact that I have stated many times where I stand on the political landscape, it makes you guys look like your so far out in right field as to be putting a crick in my neck. And I'm standing in right field, if only a little right of center. ;)

 
"find alot of todays run away economics and consumerist ideals rather stupid. Whatever happened to building something right the first time out of a material that lasts?"

Zipper, when you write things like that, you just make so much sense, none of us can understand why you don't agree with us all of the time! ;D

But that's OK.  Maybe I agree because I had to buy a grinder and a bondo kit today.  I would have thought a car body would have lasted longer than 12 years and 366,000 km...

Fact is, if you build it cheap, you can sell it cheap, and I can buy it cheap.  Walmart is not Prada.  We have choice.  Consumers vote with their wallets. 


 
Pure democracy is certainly not an ideal form of government.  Ask the Athenians.  In any system in which government is chosen and decisions are made by an electorate it is still necessary to have institutional barriers to excessive concentration of power and tyranny of majorities.  The US has not a perfect system, but it does have a system built on principles and limitations which have stood reasonably the test of time (during a period of unprecedented technological, economic, and political evolution) and are uncommon even among governments of the nations which might be considered as mostly free and prosperous.  We thought for a long time the parliamentary system served us well and some still do; I find the potential abuses of the PMO warrant a re-examination of our system.

A "level playing field" is certainly imperative where rights and treatment under law are concerned, but not really any further, particularly in social and economic matters.  All that does is engender frustration and retard growth.  People vary in the degree of restriction they are willing to trade for security.  Economic equalization breeds stagnation.

If you enjoy being ruled, great.  Do not expect me to join you.  I don't need a ruler.  If you are a moral person, respect my wishes in that regard.  Do not presume there is any significant pool of people who are somehow inherently capable of judging what is best for society.  Have you not noticed how the biggest f***-ups in history have been caused by people with good intentions and the power to pursue them?

>If the Charter isn't around to guarantee them (vis-a-vis the State) and/or the State itself is non-existent, then do they exist within a Hobbesian State of Nature?

Yes; with the inherent rights comes the inherent power to safeguard them.  I don't claim it has to be easy.  What the inherent rights are is not in my view even a question; all that is in question is whether anyone or any government might seek to infringe them.  I don't consider absolute anarchy to be a desirable state; the simplest social organization or government has at least the immediate advantage of establishing customs and rules by which we are granted some security in exchange for small sacrifices to our liberties - mostly theoretical sacrifices if we are moral people.  In my view that security removes from us some basic levels of anxiety and worry which enable us to be even more prosperous than if we had to be constantly vigilant of those around us.  The ongoing argument is over how much security we must have - some of us want more, and some are satisfied with less.  This in itself would not generate much heat if it weren't for the fact that those in pursuit of more security frequently insist everyone be forced to provide it and participate in it.

What it comes down to is this: even if you deem me mean-hearted, miserly, self-centred, and despicable, you should - by moral imperatives - respect my freedom to be that way.  That is the essence of liberalism.  If you do not, you are merely a shade of tyrant.
 
Brad Sallows said:
Yes; with the inherent rights comes the inherent power to safeguard them.  I don't claim it has to be easy.  What the inherent rights are is not in my view even a question; all that is in question is whether anyone or any government might seek to infringe them.  I don't consider absolute anarchy to be a desirable state; the simplest social organization or government has at least the immediate advantage of establishing customs and rules by which we are granted some security in exchange for small sacrifices to our liberties - mostly theoretical sacrifices if we are moral people.  In my view that security removes from us some basic levels of anxiety and worry which enable us to be even more prosperous than if we had to be constantly vigilant of those around us.  The ongoing argument is over how much security we must have - some of us want more, and some are satisfied with less.  This in itself would not generate much heat if it weren't for the fact that those in pursuit of more security frequently insist everyone be forced to provide it and participate in it.

What it comes down to is this: even if you deem me mean-hearted, miserly, self-centred, and despicable, you should - by moral imperatives - respect my freedom to be that way.  That is the essence of liberalism.  If you do not, you are merely a shade of tyrant.

I still don't agree that "Rights" exist in the absence of a state (or some other form of social organization which has the will to do so) to enforce them. 

(Drawing back on my Heinlein) there is no "Right to Life" - I can easily prey on people and kill them; how do we possess a "Natural Right" in nature when other animals prey on humans (cougar attacks occur once in a while).

Right to Freedom of Association or Freedom of Speech?  Again, another can easily interfere this and, in the absence of a state or social system to define these rights, there is really nothing one could do about it.  Where is it written in Nature that one has the privilege of speaking without fear of infringement by another?

Bring in the State (in its various incarnations).  The Rights and Freedoms we enjoy are artifice; they are a construct based upon mutual consent and backed by coercive force.  I fully agree with you that one can be a "mean-hearted, miserly, self-centred, and despicable" human being and be guaranteed to live their lives like this - call me a Libertarian or whatever.  However, if this Freedom were not guaranteed by a social construct, then nothing in Nature would protect a petulant person from getting eaten by a lion.
 
The existence of a natural right is not accompanied by practical immunity from infringement (which would be a sort of super-right, I suppose, if there were some agent to enforce it).  There is, however, an implied power to resist infringement.

I may have commented earlier on what I consider to be an important qualification to what we loosely term the "right to life".  It would be better phrased as "right not to be deprived of life unjustly".  It is not an exemption from inclusion in the food chain.  Ideally, it would drive us to seek only retribution less than death on our transgressors and to avoid deadly force except in just defence of life.

Your natural rights exist whenever you do.  You don't need society to create or provide for you a right to life or freedoms of conscience.  You don't need others to do anything at all to provide those rights; all you require is that others refrain from infringement.  That we elect to form societies and governments to assist us to safeguard our rights is a consequence of the realization that we have rights we might wish to safeguard and that people are not immune to the impulse to infringe our rights for selfish purposes.

One of my points is this: the less we collectively infringe on the rights of individuals, the better we are.  That does not seem to be the current vector of "Canadian Values", and a great many people have deluded themselves otherwise.
 
Wow. Good writing Brad. :salute:

I see your point. But answer me this?

How do you purpose to keep individual's from infringing on "your" rights without having a social order (government)?

And on that same note. Since the pursuit of individual money/power/influence is usually with/upon the cooperation of others? How do you purpose that those who help you to your individual ends are also compinsated in kind?

In other words, I'm saying that I agree that there can never be a "true" level playing field as that would also be an extreme of which we do not wish to encounter. However...      ...why is it that often the pursuit of the individuals goals are often on/by the backs/blood of those who do not wish it? Are you not treading upon their rights?

Another way of looking at it is...    ...their will always be people who in the pursuit of power/money/influence will do so by infringing upon the rights of others in order to attain it. As well, they will continue to do this in order to stay in that position. How do we avoid this if not by laws/rules within the social order?

As to your first installment. I myself prefer to have less security. I feel that this world of more security is acually making everyone feel less secure. Why must I pay more money for home insurance if I do not have a security system? Why must I feel like I must close every window and lock every door (except the back) even if I'm in my backyard? Whatever happened to letting the kids play street hockey out front? Its like we're all paranoid of each other.


 
In the absence of social order you alone safeguard your rights.  The outcome may not be fair, but the process will be just.  The instant you and another guy agree to come to each other's aid over some infringement of rights, you have established a social order.  A family is a social order.  I doubt there will be, or ever was, a complete absence of social order.

Cooperation is obtained by contract.  The contract can be as simple as a spoken agreement.  In the absence of a legal mechanism to enforce contracts, there is an implied social mechanism: no one contracts with one who can not be trusted.  Bad faith has a cost.  The reality is that most agreements which we find necessary in a complex and advanced society require complex, written contracts.  However, note also that many forms of contracts are almost pro forma.  Not a lot of original contract language has to go into a home sale, for example.

There will always be manipulative and deceitful and greedy people.  They will tend to seek out power structures which facilitate their goals.  For those reasons I prefer to minimize government power as a precaution against the inevitable.  The system of government we establish to safeguard our rights, can in turn abuse those rights if not controlled.
 
It's getting tricky to do late-night fencing on 2 threads on the same general topic.... :blotto:

Brad Sallows said:
In the absence of social order you alone safeguard your rights.

Agreed - although I fail to see how there is a natural right involved here.  I could decide that I had a right to the entire river valley, and if I scared all away with my stick and they willingly left, what mechanism would determine that I had acted unjustly?


The outcome may not be fair, but the process will be just.

How is "Just", like "Rights", determined outside of the context of the artifice of society.  You said above that the right to life should be rephrased as the "right not to be deprived of life unjustly" (thereby justifying the food chain), but what is the difference between a lion tearing apart a gazelle for its meat and a guy knifing another person for his property so that he can buy food/crack/whatever to sustain himself?

The instant you and another guy agree to come to each other's aid over some infringement of rights, you have established a social order.   A family is a social order.

Is the family really social order, or is it a survival mechanism?  Do other species have families for the purpose of social order?  Do we?  I agree that families (and other kin groups) can bring social order because cooperation is involved, but I don't think families are social order that are responses to protect a set of "rights" that we can all deduce in a state of nature.

I doubt there will be, or ever was, a complete absence of social order.

Agreed.  I seem to remember that most "Contract Theorists" agreed that a situation with no contract was more of a philosophical abstract.  Order, like power, abhors a vacuum (and Man is by nature a political animal, or whatever that was all about)....

Cooperation is obtained by contract.   The contract can be as simple as a spoken agreement.   In the absence of a legal mechanism to enforce contracts, there is an implied social mechanism: no one contracts with one who can not be trusted.   Bad faith has a cost.   The reality is that most agreements which we find necessary in a complex and advanced society require complex, written contracts.   However, note also that many forms of contracts are almost pro forma.   Not a lot of original contract language has to go into a home sale, for example.

Agree generally.  Although you may want to stick Coercion in their somewhere - I don't recall many societies in the last 5 or 6 millenia bartering their social contracts.  ;)

There will always be manipulative and deceitful and greedy people.   They will tend to seek out power structures which facilitate their goals.   For those reasons I prefer to minimize government power as a precaution against the inevitable.   The system of government we establish to safeguard our rights, can in turn abuse those rights if not controlled.

Agreed.
 
I never, ever agree with Jim Laxer; sometimes, today is one of those rare occasions, I do accept much of his analysis of a situation even as I reject his conclusions.

Here is Laxer in today's Globe and Mail at: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050426/COCRISIS26/TPComment/TopStories  I have highlighted the items which I hope a harper government will implement.

More than politics, this is a national crisis

By JAMES LAXER
Tuesday, April 26, 2005

The leaders of all three opposition parties insist that what Canadians face is a crisis of the Liberal Party, not a national crisis. Formally, they are right. The sordid spectacle at the Gomery inquiry has exposed deep corruption at the heart of the regime of former prime minister Jean Chrétien.

The problem is that the imminent demise of the Liberal Party and government will trigger a fundamental national crisis that has been implicit in the structure of Canadian politics since 1993. Since the federal election of that year, Canadian political parties have been divided into two essential groups. First, there are the parties of what we can call the "Canadian system," the Liberals and the NDP. These parties broadly support the present division of powers between Ottawa and the provinces and, with some important disagreements, the present role of government with respect to social programs, higher education and the environment. They even agree, more than they like to admit, on foreign policy. Then, there are the parties of radical decentralization, the Conservatives (much more the descendant of the Reform Party and the Canadian Alliance than of the old Progressive Conservatives) and the Bloc Québécois.

An immediate federal election, with Canadians fixated on the sponsorship scandal, is almost certain to put the federal government and Canadian politics squarely in the hands of the two parties of radical decentralization.

Despite his effort to moderate its image, Stephen Harper and his party are committed to a dramatic reduction of the role of Ottawa in Confederation. Their pledge to implement massive tax cuts and a major increase in defence spending can only be managed through a steep reduction of federal spending on health care, social transfers, higher education and culture. The Conservatives would certainly allow the provinces to open the door to a much larger role for the private sector in the delivery of health care. They would halt any move toward a publicly operated national child-care system. They would end Canada's commitment to the Kyoto accord. They would sign on to George W. Bush's missile-defence initiative and would take Canada down the road to continental integration on immigration and refugee policy. They would support the conversion of NAFTA into a customs union and would favour an energy and resources deal that would designate Canadian resources as continental resources. Fully aware that Canadians don't favour this agenda, Stephen Harper is seizing the opportunity presented by the Liberal Party's scandal to attain power.

For his part, Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe is the Jekyll and Hyde of Canadian politics. Most days Mr. Duceppe is a Doctor Jekyll who wants a clean political system and progressive policies for the country. That is until a crisis arises that will provide him with winning conditions in his crusade to lead Quebec out of Confederation. The demise of the Liberals will take Mr. Duceppe a long way toward his goal. After sweeping almost all Quebec ridings in a federal election, Mr. Duceppe can replace the unpopular Bernard Landry as Parti Québécois leader. From there, his sights would be set on wresting power in the next Quebec election from the even more unpopular Jean Charest. In the persona of Mr. Hyde, Mr. Duceppe would then launch a sovereignty referendum while Mr. Harper, his current collaborator in sacking the Liberals, is prime minister. While many Quebeckers would resist the siren call of separation, Mr. Duceppe's case would be greatly strengthened by the presence in Ottawa of a neo-conservative government with whom Quebeckers would have little sympathy.

Meanwhile, the parties of what [he] callled the "Canadian system" are in disarray.

The Liberals are suffering the death of a thousand cuts, cuts being inflicted as much by Liberals themselves as by their adversaries. It falls to Paul Martin, a decent and honest, though not particularly progressive, political leader to staunch the wounds and save the great party of the Canadian centre. Whether he can turn the situation to his favour in the present mood of national disgust will depend on how clear he can be in presenting an agenda for the long-term renewal of the role Ottawa plays in the lives of Canadians. At best, it's a long shot.

Jack Layton, in the current imbroglio, is a deer caught in the headlights. The NDP is torn between the desire to join with the other two opposition parties in milking the scandal and a desire to force concessions from Mr. Martin to turn the minority parliament in a more progressive direction. The long-term NDP dream has always been to replace the Liberals so that New Democrats can become one of the country's two viable governing parties, along with the Conservatives. While the scandal provides New Democrats with the hope that they can win over disgusted Liberal voters, it also threatens to bring to office a leader who rejects everything the NDP holds dear. Mr. Layton says repeatedly that Canadians should vote for what they want rather than against what they fear. He wants Canadians to focus on the benefits of electing more New Democrats and not to worry about the threat posed by the parties of radical decentralization.

Canadians have every right to be disgusted by the spectacle that has emerged from the Gomery inquiry. They would be very shortsighted, however, to believe that this crisis is only about a corrupt governing party that has been in power for too long. Those who want to sustain the "Canadian system" need to find their voices, and their political imagination, before it is too late.

James Laxer, author of In Search of a New Left, is a professor of political science at York University in Toronto.

I agree with Laxer that:

"¢ Canadian political parties have been divided into two essential groups. First, there are the parties of what we can call the "Canadian system," the Liberals and the NDP. These parties broadly support the present division of powers between Ottawa and the provinces and, with some important disagreements, the present role of government with respect to social programs, higher education and the environment. They even agree, more than they like to admit, on foreign policy. Then, there are the parties of radical decentralization, the Conservatives ... and the Bloc Québécois.

"¢ Stephen Harper and his party are committed to a dramatic reduction of the role of Ottawa in Confederation.

"¢ ... the parties of what [he] called the "Canadian system" are in disarray.

I also agree that: â ?Mr. Duceppe would then launch a sovereignty referendum while Mr. Harper, his current collaborator in sacking the Liberals, is prime minister. While many Quebeckers would resist the siren call of separation, Mr. Duceppe's case would be greatly strengthened by the presence in Ottawa of a neo-conservative government with whom Quebeckers would have little sympathy.â ?  But, big BUT, many more Québecers, especially the soft nationalists, will find much to like in Harper's proposals to let them, and Albertans, too, be maîtres chez eux by implementing a national version of Mike Harris' very good question: â ?:Who does what to whom?â ?, with the implicit follow-on, "... and why must we all try to duplicate one another's efforts and step on one another's toes?â ?  Many Québecers, faced with a choice between a relatively sovereign Québec within a looser but friendly federation and a completely sovereign Québec facing a hostile Canada, will opt for renewed federalism.

I do not agree that: Canadians "would be very shortsighted, however, to believe that this crisis is only about a corrupt governing party that has been in power for too long.â ?

Neither Harper nor Martin planned this but, and here I agree with Laxer, the country finds itself near a crossroads.  We may turn left, back to bureaucratic mediocrity or right, towards smaller, more independent, more efficient and effective and interlinked governmentss forming a confederation.

 
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