M134D MiniGun for CH-146 Griffons

[KevinB]

I hate to the bearer of bad news -- but you cannot just fly the escort on ahead -- having been in helo's that have been hit on the way.

It may be easier in open terrain -- but in an urban - suburban environment - you need escort helo's with a package.

 

[Strike]

I hate to the bearer of bad news -- but you cannot just fly the escort on ahead -- having been in helo's that have been hit on the way.

It may be easier in open terrain -- but in an urban - suburban environment - you need escort helo's with a package.

Kill joy!

 

[lone bugler]

wow big toys for big boys, a minigun just spells out fun, after all the TV shows involving the minigun I've been dieing to try it. But the taliban will learn the meaning of cover fire, that outta keep there heads down entering a hot LZ

 

[Sf2]

wow big toys for big boys, a minigun just spells out fun, after all the TV shows involving the minigun I've been dieing to try it. But the taliban will learn the meaning of cover fire, that outta keep there heads down entering a hot LZ

 

[SeaKingTacco]

:
Ooohhh  Boy....

 

[Strike]

Hijack:

SF2...I didn't know you were such a geek.  ;D  With the car you drive?  What a let down.

End Hijack

 

[Privateer]

Article by David ********:  "GRIFFONS ONE STEP CLOSER TO KANDAHAR"

http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/blogs/defencewatch/archive/2008/07/16/griffons-one-step-closer-to-kandahar.aspx

 

[421 EME]

I have one question ??? Who is going to be doing the maintenance on the M134D? As a Weapons Tech land, I would love to get that course and work on them, but I think its going to be a Airforce job :crybaby:. Anyone care to wager a guess?

 

[aesop081]

I have one question ??? Who is going to be doing the maintenance on the M134D? As a Weapons Tech land, I would love to get that course and work on them, but I think its going to be a Airforce job :crybaby:. Anyone care to wager a guess?

We have our own weapons techs so that would be my bet.

 

[421 EME]

Anyone have any info on how the trials are going ???

 

[George Wallace]

'Sounds' like there leaning towards .50's now. mingun is heavy, has too large of an electrical draw, and they want to hit a little harder.
also it's not doing anything for ya when your shot-down. alot of minigun operators in the chinook world are getting out of it. I do like the
look of the Marine Sea Knights with Browning .50's.

Have you ever hefted a .50 Cal (a complete .50 Cal; Body, Bolt, and Barrel) on your shoulders?  If you are shot down, I doubt that will be one of the things you'd be thinking about.  I doubt it would be a thing you would desperately run back and get out of a wreck.

 

[aesop081]

Have you ever hefted a .50 Cal (a complete .50 Cal; Body, Bolt, and Barrel) on your shoulders?  If you are shot down, I doubt that will be one of the things you'd be thinking about.  I doubt it would be a thing you would desperately run back and get out of a wreck.

Would be interesting to fire it without a tripod thats for sure  ;D

 

[KevinB]

The Mini gun issue has been solved by the Dillon Battery packed one -- they dont require crew system electical -- as such they will work in a down bird.

.50 - if you go that route you need the M3 with its higher ROF -- Canada does not currently subscribe to the M3 - so it would be another system added.

The USMC runs their packets with a UH-1N and AH-1S(?) along for the ride (at least here) so the CH-46's are not alone -- the UH1 has two .50 door guns - plus some with rocket pod packages.

I'm a big fan of the M240H for the UH-60 and in Canada's case the CH-146  - if your running SOF side the minigun gives a lot more - and the space and weight tradeoffs are usually worth it.  I dont think the .50 is a viable system on a bird that size (keep in mind I am just a passenger, but I've never seen any problems with the 240H getting bad guys) and I have some .50 experience that leads me to beleive it is not practical for what is happening in this day and age from a utility bird.


A fair amount of crews keep the 240B buttstock - in case they have to dismount the 240H - the gun has a bipod now as well (due to previosu dismount issues)

Dismounting a M134 or a M3 (or M2) .50 is not going to happen unless you crash land beside a place that conviently has EIS for it - that can lend you appropriate mounting hardware for ground use.  Most crews on birds like that will have a 240B or two as dismount guns -- or Mk48's if your a 160th guy.

 

[George Wallace]

of course your not gonna be EnEing with your trusty 50. perimeter defence if your able to make one.

Make up you mind.

Don't make a comment and then when caught on it, make a smart ass reply that your original comment wasn't what you meant.

As for a quote from a friend/acquaintance of a friend/acquaintance three times removed........Well, we aren't playing the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon here.

 

[KevinB]

FYI to your other point, FMS (foreign military sale) (which oddly includes other US gov entities than the US Mil) brid are not allowed to be setup for crew system electical minigun power.  Hence Canada will end up with a battery pack minigun - or playing jungle electrican on a bird still under warantee (which I dont think will happen if the Cdn tax payer values his investment).

 

[Strike]

Huddy...have you not wondered why members of the Wing hve been conspicuously quiet on this thread?  Probably a good reason for it.

By the way, pretty sure the purpose of having a separate power pack has NOTHING to do with taking the gun and running, but a little more with defending the aircraft should you have to land unintentionally (I try not to use the "C" word) in a hostile area.

 

[Loachman]

"mingun is heavy, has too large of an electrical draw"

We used to put them on Kiowas.

There was no issue with electrical draw whatsoever.

Weight, yes, and some other aspects not likely to be a factor anymore.

 

[1feral1]

Have you ever hefted a .50 Cal (a complete .50 Cal; Body, Bolt, and Barrel) on your shoulders?  If you are shot down, I doubt that will be one of the things you'd be thinking about.  I doubt it would be a thing you would desperately run back and get out of a wreck.

M2 12.7 x 99mm QCB should be about 37Kg basic gun, empty, not including mounts, if I remember correctly, regarding weight and if we look back to the movie Pearl Harbor, whan one man man packs an M2 up a huge tower, it must have been injection molded plastic, as he is carrying it as if it weights as much as a rifle.

 

[George Wallace]

M2 12.7 x 99mm QCB should be about 37Kg basic gun, empty, not including mounts, if I remember correctly, regarding weight and if we look back to the movie Pearl Harbor, whan one man man packs an M2 up a huge tower, it must have been injection molded plastic, as he is carrying it as if it weights as much as a rifle.

Being young and foolish, I did that once and only once during a Snowball.  Once I had it in the 20mm mount, I took a break to recover......a few seconds and then back to loading kit.  Yeah Wes.  37kg of non-ergonomic metal is not too comfortable on the shoulders or back.  Next time I made two trips.

 

[421 EME]

Wes, correct if I am wrong, but any .50 HMG that I have seen for use in aircraft has had a lighter barrel, barrel shroud, Hydraulic buffer and a light weight bolt. This make the weapon lighter and also increases the rate of fire.