M113A3 for Kandahar?

[Nfld Sapper]

Wrong. 4 CER was swimming 113s in the Baggersee in Lahr as late as '90.

Kat

Well I stand corrected thx Kat

Chimo!

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

I had many rides in the m113. But hey look, it's the most sold apc on earth!!!! I went to Switzerland last year, and the have m113 with a panzerII-style turret with a 20mmcanon. Good, reliable and effective...And remember, it's amphibious, LAVIII is not. Of course LAVIII is a speady monster with lots of good points, but I think M113 is the most suited APC for Canada

Yes, it is the most sold Western APC - starting with sales 40 years ago!

The Swiss vehicle you're referring to is the SpZ 63.  It is also very old and only a limited number (approximately 20 percent) were selected for rebuild.  A number of the remainder have been sold off to the UAE, which will donate them to the Iraqi government.

The Swiss experience, since you bring it up, mirrors almost exactly what Canada is doing with ours.  A limited number are being rebuilt and fitted with small (ex-Grizzly) turrets for specialist roles.  Its day in Canadian service as an APC are long gone.

The fact of the matter is that our vehicles (aside from the rebuilds) are old, have a very heavy logistics tail and cannot provide the mobility, protection and (especially) firepower of the LAV III in an Afghan context.  The Americans I worked with in Kabul parked theirs for exactly the same reasons.

So, you've established (via your profile) that you have very limited experience with the vehicle.  What you haven't established is why you think that our M113s (not modified "notional" vehicles with Bradley turrets) would be suitable for deployment to Kandahar.

Cheers,

TR

 

[GerryCan]

I nominate Black Watch for sandbag detail in the back of his M113 the next time it goes out for a 'swim'. I believe it's scheduled somewhere around the 12th of Never.

Don't forget your lifejacket and Rubber Boot Gumbies :

As much as I do enjoy walking...I'll stick with the LAVIII.

 

[ArmyRick]

I have lots of expiriences with m113 (many hours maintenance and bootin around in them).
They are gone.

Thank god and good ridance.

Give me a LAVIII over the mobile icebox any day.

 

[Gill557]

I have lots of expiriences with m113 (many hours maintenance and bootin around in them).
They are gone.

Thank god and good ridance.

Give me a LAVIII over the mobile icebox any day.

Mobile icebox?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Mobile icebox?

Spend a winter ex in one with a busted heater. And don't put your tongue on the cupola ring

 

[McG]

Mobile icebox?

The average heater never worked, and the metal hull had a way of sucking the heat out of you.  Fortunatly, the new A3s are like saunas.

A limited number are being rebuilt and fitted with small (ex-Grizzly) turrets for specialist roles.

and even then, we have been told we (Engrs) will never use our new M113A3 & MTVE as anything more than a trg vehicles in Canada.

 

[Black Watch]

And with your vast experience operating them, going on ex or otherwise in them, what makes you think that? Short of a ride or two around the button, what IS your experience in them? Go ahead, pretend your a salesman and your talking to Ottawa.

I didn't mean that i'm an expert...but ok...

"I'm an amreican...I sell military equipment. Prime minister Martin, you have the choice: either you buy m113's or the u.s. mlilitary wull carry your troops..."

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I said, "Pardon"?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I didn't mean that i'm an expert...but ok...

"I'm an amreican...I sell military equipment. Prime minister Martin, you have the choice: either you buy m113's or the u.s. mlilitary wull carry your troops..."

That's what I thought.

If your going to participate in a discussion, and give MEANINGFUL input, at least have SOME idea of what your talking about.

 

[Black Watch]

I apologize if I offended someone. I didn't meant to. But annyways, I was givving my point of view, and as you noticed, I have a little experience with the issue... Plese excuse me again

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Nothing wrong with asking questions when you don't know something. Logical and worthwhile opinions, or points of view, are usually qualified by real world experience. If you have neither, your best bet is to stick to questions.

 

[JackD]

Hi! I have to agree with you with my experience of the m113 - at least where I was - an armoured troop in 3 field/1CER with a section vehicle that was worse for wear. I was also crew commanding one in Cyprus that had a u-joint break while outside Nicosia - the road that ran along the cliff - it left us teetering on the edge. There was also that fiasco with the Diehl track and the 5km/hr restriction - oh yes - the heaters too. Could you tell me more of what was wrong with the Grizzlies -besides traction in winter, the tires getting beaten up and it not being big enough? Were they that hard to maintain?

 

[Black Watch]

Nothing wrong with asking questions when you don't know something. Logical and worthwhile opinions, or points of view, are usually qualified by real world experience. If you have neither, your best bet is to stick to questions.

Thanks for the tip... I do have a question. . . Why did CF went on with those whelled apc rather to tracked apc' (I know replacement parts for the drivetrain could be one)

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Nothing wrong with asking questions when you don't know something. Logical and worthwhile opinions, or points of view, are usually qualified by real world experience. If you have neither, your best bet is to stick to questions.

There are a few here that should listen to that sound piece of advice.

 

[beltfeedPaul]

The M 113A3, with an uprgraded turret(scrounged Cadillac Gage turrets off old AVGPs), with new heaters and fresh paint IS STILL AN M113!! The M 113 was conceived, (40+ years ago)as a cheap, air transportable,easy to manufacture APC to shuttle hundreds of thousands of NATO troops to do battle with the Soviets! It was never designed to slug it out with other APCS of IFVs or really even defend itself, if it delivered the troops the to the objective, more or less intact, then its job was done. Why we would spend any money trying to refurbish these old dogs is quite beyond me. Maybe we could pull the turrets out of the Leopards, and rename them Kangaroo IIs!

 

[TCBF]

"The T-LAV family (which includes the M113-A3 and MTVL variants) are not amphibious. Canada has not had any amphibious capabilities since the late 70's to early 80's."

- The RCAC School ran an Advanced D&M Course before the summer of 95 that had a swim camp in it.  We swam wheeld and tracked veh.  As the veh started leaking too much POL into the sites, or developed other probs, they were pulled from the rotation at the fast or slow swim site.  The one Lynx we had finished the camp.  It was prob the last Lynx in the CF to swim.

- If we are serious about our arctic issues, the ONLY veh we have in any quantity that has the ability and flexibility to serve us in the arctic is the M-113.  Send all of the expensive wheeled gadgets overseas, but keep the 113 for the arctic.

Tom

 

[Slim]

"- The RCAC School ran an Advanced D&M Course before the summer of 95 that had a swim camp in it.   We swam wheeld and tracked veh.   As the veh started leaking too much POL into the sites, or developed other probs, they were pulled from the rotation at the fast or slow swim site.   The one Lynx we had finished the camp.   It was prob the last Lynx in the CF to swim.

-Tom

Hey Tom

I was at that swim camp! First (and last) time I ever swam an M113 Dozer! It had a freeboard of like 2mm...And wouldn't steer in the water for sh*t! Glad they're now gone.

Cheers

Slim

 

[KevinB]

- If we are serious about our arctic issues, the ONLY veh we have in any quantity that has the ability and flexibility to serve us in the arctic is the M-113.   Send all of the expensive wheeled gadgets overseas, but keep the 113 for the arctic.

Tom

TOM,  BV206...
The Icebox in NOT an arctic vehicle....

 

[McG]

The Icebox in NOT an arctic vehicle....

....but, the new saunas might be.