Licensed To Military.

[kbird]

Hi,

My names Kris, I'm an apprentice only a few months away from being a licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer. My wife and I have decided that
were going to sign up with the Canadian forces. I have a couple questions and I'm hoping someone might have a few answers.
Was anyone on the forum here previously licensed before entering the military?
If I have 2 years apprenticing on Rotarywing aircraft like Jetrangers, MD 500, & Eurocopters can I expect to stay in that Field when i get in?
Whats maintenance like in the military? Who signs the aircraft off? Are their Logbooks? Does CARS Apply?
Ive already done 2 years of schooling for engineering in aviation and I was told that I could skip the schooling the military would have. Is that a good idea?
Do you sometimes have to "Bush it" or is everything strictly by the book?
I know i have alot of questions, Mainly I'm hoping to work on Seakings, Cyclones and eventually hopefully one day The Comerant.
Ill be signing up for basic training in Sep-Oct time period as long as things keep going the way they are.
And my family and I are looking forward to it. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and hopefully for the answers.

  - Kris.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I'm no tech but I'll try to answer some of the questions

If I have 2 years apprenticing on Rotarywing aircraft like Jetrangers, MD 500, & Eurocopters can I expect to stay in that Field when i get in?

I think the military will put you where they need you.  They'll train you on a type.

Does CARS Apply?

No, we have our own rules and regulations.

Do you sometimes have to "Bush it" or is everything strictly by the book?

As far as I've seen, maintenance is done by the book and no shortcuts are taken.

 

[aesop081]

hopefully one day The Comerant.

If you join the millitary, you have zero chance of working as a maintainer on the CH-149 Cormorant.

ZERO.

 

[aesop081]

Who signs the aircraft off?

Technicians that are so qualified sign their respective areas in the books.

Are their Logbooks?

Each aircraft has its own maintenance records, both on paper and electronic.

is everything strictly by the book?

As far as i know, its by the book. I like it that way as its my life on the line.

 

[kbird]

Why is their Zero chance of working on the CH-149?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the maintenance is contracted to a civilian organization.

 

[aesop081]

Why is their Zero chance of working on the CH-149?

Maintenance on the CH-149 Cormorant is done by contract to a civillian company called IMP.

 

[kbird]

Well that's to bad.
I just read an article I found on line.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/imp-retains-ch-149-sar-helicopter-maintenance-03799/
Why exactly would the military contract the maintenance out?
I'm sorry I'm getting of the main topic of my original Post, I'm just curiouse.

 

[belka]

If I have 2 years apprenticing on Rotarywing aircraft like Jetrangers, MD 500, & Eurocopters can I expect to stay in that Field when i get in?

There is no guarantee that you'll see rotary wing after your training. On our QL3's (trades training) only 1 out of 14 got a helicopter squadron and that was due to family issues. I'm not sure how it is now and postings to the whirly birds.

Whats maintenance like in the military? Who signs the aircraft off? Are their Logbooks?

Maintenance is very strict and we are professionals in our work, we have one of the oldest flying fleets in NATO so proper maintenance is key. Anyone who is POM (performance of maintenance) qualified can sign for the work being done. You still need at least 2 or 3 levels of signatures before that job can be signed off completely and the aircraft deemed serviceable for flight. It all depends on the type of work being done. There are no logbooks after you are a Journeyman.

Ive already done 2 years of schooling for engineering in aviation and I was told that I could skip the schooling the military would have. Is that a good idea?

You won't skip it, but your training time will be shorter. You still have to get familiar with CF maintenance practices and procedures as they are different from the civilian work.

Do you sometimes have to "Bush it" or is everything strictly by the book?

Everything is signed off as "In Accordance With" the proper manuals. Sometimes there is a quicker way to do a job than the manual states that doesn't affect safety, but that comes with experience. You just have to remember that all the work you sign for is a legal document that can be used against you in an incident.

 

[kbird]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies.
I have more questions but ill post them in the appropriate forum.
Im really looking forward finishing my apprenticeship as a civilian, and finaly singing up with the Canadian Forces.

 

[Sparkplugs]

There is no guarantee that you'll see rotary wing after your training. On our QL3's (trades training) only 1 out of 14 got a helicopter squadron and that was due to family issues. I'm not sure how it is now and postings to the whirly birds.

Maintenance is very strict and we are professionals in our work, we have one of the oldest flying fleets in NATO so proper maintenance is key. Anyone who is POM (performance of maintenance) qualified can sign for the work being done. You still need at least 2 or 3 levels of signatures before that job can be signed off completely and the aircraft deemed serviceable for flight. It all depends on the type of work being done. There are no logbooks after you are a Journeyman.

You won't skip it, but your training time will be shorter. You still have to get familiar with CF maintenance practices and procedures as they are different from the civilian work.

Everything is signed off as "In Accordance With" the proper manuals. Sometimes there is a quicker way to do a job than the manual states that doesn't affect safety, but that comes with experience. You just have to remember that all the work you sign for is a legal document that can be used against you in an incident.

Some of this depends on a lot of things...  You may or may not get shorter training time.  I've seen people go through CFSATE with AME diplomas, and still have to take the entire course.  I've also seen people only have to take about half of it, so it all depends... on what, I have no idea, but the standards aren't the same for everyone.

Also, AVN's don't use a logbook anymore, just fyi...  ACS and AVS still do. 

 

[RetiredRoyal]

Hail Kbird...

I'm a licensed AME and a TQ 5 qualified AVN tech.

You'll have a prior learning assesment done on you and there will be 'gaps' found in your training and experience that you will have to have 'filled' at CFSATE in Borden. While the military has vigorously lobbied TC to recognize AVN techs as almost equivalent to AME's, the forces does not recognize us as equivalent to AVN techs.

Its funny, a L Col at 1 CAD recently commented on my AME license and two CAMC certifications as 'impressive' but not directly equivalent to the 5 whole trades that combined to be the AVN tech.

Wonder if he knows i can sign out a whole airplane by myself, change radios, fab antenaes and rebuild piston engines on my license and word alone...anyway, i digress.

After you'll get posted wherever they tell you to go, but you'll get three choices.

The manuals we use in the military are mostly (not all, mostley) ATA manuals enclosed in CF binders and with the numberings system slightly changed to match the CFTO format instead of ATA.

The regs we use are very similar to the ones we use in civvy street. Even the diagrams you find in teh standard practices sections are the same ones you've seen ripped off a thousand times from the AC 43.13.

I recently completed the AMP (maintenance policy) training for my lvl A signatures and found that the policies are very, very simliar to what we use on civvy street. Military now demands coc's and all that stuff for parts etc.

The only bush repairs that take place are in aircraft battle damage. Otherwise I find the military way more restrictive than civvy street. So many layers of beauracracy. We can't just access the mfr to approve repair schemes or call a designate of TC to approve it. It's got to go through a bunch of other people first.

With a license you and i can release an aircraft for flight. In the military it takes a lvl c releaser. Which is generally the desk sgt to double check all the paperwork and stuff.

pm me if you want more info. I was an avn tech, left the forces, got my license, work at an ATO and am a reserve AVN tech now.

 

[cp140tech]

Most of the civvie qualified folks I've encountered who rolled into AVN had to complete tech admin or whatever they call it now (paperwork) and armament at CFSATE... until civilian aircraft start carrying weapons or the armament trade stands up there is no help for that, no matter how many radios/antennas you can change. Either way it's all pensionable time.

Nobody can give you an accurate idea of where you'll be posted, you may as well roll chicken bones on that one.

Everything we do is by the book; way she goes.

Any questions feel free to pm me.  Good luck.

 

[RetiredRoyal]

chicken bones..ah...issued to all CM's..lol..thats a good one.