Liberal Party Minister Defects to Tories

[zipperhead_cop]

Can't you just accept that there is a conservative on the left coast?  Gawd, get over it!  Let the guy do some work fer chrise sakes and then bitch.  If anything, the Tories (can we still call them that?) will give him everything he asks for, to make them all look good to the socialist left coast hippie types.  Nothing stings like success.  If you have a problem with that, I'm with Recceguy.  You are a political zealot and have no ability to adapt your views. 
Continuing to wail about "the will of the constituents" is moot.  It is pathetic crybabyism at it's worst.  The "will" didn't mean dick to the Lieberals when they took traitor Belinda so if whats good for the goose...
Maybe what is concerning is the fact that the whole of North America is finally waking up and realizing that socialism doesn't work and everyone needs to get their arses to the right.  Maybe there are lots more left coast Lieberals that see the writing on the wall and want to jump off the sinking ship.

 

[Bart Nikodem]

Kirkhill,
I draw your attention to an excerpt from the "Cabinet of Canada" article on Wikipedia (reproduced under the fair use provisions of the copyright act):

Decisions made in cabinet must be unanimous, though this often occurs at the Prime Minister's direction. Once a decision is made all Cabinet members must publicly support it. If any of these rules are violated, the offending the minister is usually removed by the Prime Minister.

Italics added for emphasis
So you're right, when Stephen Harper authorizes his cabinet to have a free vote they can vote their constituents wishes. However cabinet ministers must toe the party line on all matters emanating from cabinet, unlike backbenchers (of the same party) who are free to criticize cabinet decisions
All the best
Bart

 

[Blue Max]

If you read the papers as to who is making the most noise and organizing these rallies, it would appear that the second up, Ian Waddell - NDP feels he is deserved the seat. Never mind that he will accomplish nothing tangible from across the floor of the legislature or from the Orange party positions. :'(

Of course I am still amazed that the majority of urban Vancouver voted Lieberal, after all what did the fed-Lieberals do for BC through all those years.  :

 

[zipperhead_cop]

If you read the papers as to who is making the most noise and organizing these rallies, it would appear that the second up, Ian Waddell - NDP feels he is deserved the seat. Never mind that he will accomplish nothing tangible from across the floor of the legislature or from the Orange party positions. :'(

Of course I am still amazed that the majority of urban Vancouver voted Lieberal, after all what did the fed-Lieberals do for BC through all those years.  :

Once the heavy pink cloak of socialist myopia descends on one, it is a hard veil to remove.  For to don it, one had to purge all common sense and logic from ones mind, and learn to think from the fluffy heart, and speak from the dingy ass.  Verily, a bitter pill to swallow. 

 

[Blue Max]

Once the heavy pink cloak of socialist myopia descends on one, it is a hard veil to remove.  For to don it, one had to purge all common sense and logic from ones mind, and learn to think from the fluffy heart, and speak from the dingy ***.  Verily, a bitter pill to swallow. 

Your funny statement I believe goes a long way to explaining why today the papers are reporting a majority of Canadians do not want us to support freedoms war in Afghanistan. :threat:

 

[Bart Nikodem]

Zipperhead_cop,
I don't know if I'd call myself a party zealot, having never belonged to a political party in my life, I would call myself more of a "Champagne Socialist". That is, I enjoy espousing socially progressive views at cocktail parties and on web forums but when the rubber meets the road I don't actually want the left wing types to take power since I have mutual funds and property values to think of. I hope that doesn't make me hypocritical.
For the record my voting pattern starting with the Fed election in 88 (I wasn't old enough to vote but my father asked me to be his consultant since my interest in politics had surpassed his own by that point)has been:
PC,PC(Manitoba),Natural Law party(93),No on Charlottetown,Reform(97), Marijuana party(00),Marijuana party(04),Green(06, No MJ candidate in my riding)
I would call it all over the map.
I have no doubt David Emerson will do a great job for BC and Canada, he is eminently qualified, what disappoints me is the route he took.
Speaking of stinging like success, you don't feel like being $100 richer when David Emerson gets re-elected on a tide of undying devotion from his won over constituents in a few years? You probably make good money being a cop, so I'm assuming your reluctance to wager stems from a lack of conviction in the fact left coast Liebrals will be jumping ship.
All the best
Bart
Full disclosure:
I did try to join a political party once. Back in '01 I sent a check for $5 to the Marijuana Party of Canada, and never heard from them. Neither was my check cashed. I assume it was not put on the "To cash" pile but instead made it to the "use to roll" pile and went up in smoke. :blotto:

 

[Kirkhill]

Bart:

Unlike backbenchers of any party Cabinet Ministers have the ability to influence "all matters emanating from Cabinet".

 

[Bart Nikodem]

Unlike backbenchers of any party Cabinet Ministers have the ability to influence "all matters emanating from Cabinet.

That's true. That is an upside I hadn't considered. I may be all turned around on the whole being in cabinet thing, as I viewed it as a one way street, from the PM on down, but I guess some of my hierarchical thinking got in the way. That's quite a salient point.
All the best
Bart

 

[zipperhead_cop]

What would we be betting on?  That he proves to be an effective leader, or is re-elected?  My faith in the left coast to not relax it's sphyncter long enough to get it's collective head out of its collective ass is pretty strong, so where I would love to see more PC on the west, I doubt it will happen.  Just like it didn't in Toronto

 

[Bart Nikodem]

I have no doubt Emerson will be an effective leader, the question is wether he will be re-elected. I say he, nor any member of the Conservative party have a hope in H-E-C-K of getting elected in Vancouver-Kingsway in the future. If people disagree I am willing to put money on the line. Granted it's money I will be receiving from the feds ($100/month childcare subsidy)for staying home with my daughter but it's real money none the less.
All the best
Bart

 

[RangerRay]

If he were to run again, I doubt Mr. Emerson would be able to win Vancouver-Kingsway, even if he settled softwood lumber, secured billions of federal dollars for the Pacific Gateway, and helped bring in the Olympics under budget (which is already over budget).

If he were to run again, he would be advised to seek the nomination in West Vancouver-Sunshine Coast or North Vancouver.  He could do well there.  And if the Liberals won, I'm sure he would go back to them if asked.  He feels he's there to do a job, not play politics.

I find it laughable that the NDP are jumping up and down calling for recall.  Up untill now, they have constantly railed against it.  When they were forced to implement recall provincially by the referendum called by the outgoing Socreds, they made it so that it was next to impossible to function.

As well, in BC in 2000, ex-BC Liberal leader and ex-PDA leader Gordon Wilsonn crossed the floor to the NDP for a Cabinet seat.

The NDP are being just as hypocritical as the Liberals.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I'll take the bet, but $50 in Army.ca merchandise that he gets re-elected in the next major fed election, not some knee jerk by election

 

[WCST]

Don't mix up Federal and Provincial politics. They have nothing to do with each other in BC.

If Emerson ran for the Liberals and was voted in as a Liberal, then he should have STAYED a Liberal or resigned. Crossing the floor to get a cabinet post is underhanded. He won't get re-elected in his riding. Guaranteed.

M :brickwall:

 

[RangerRay]

Don't mix up Federal and Provincial politics. They have nothing to do with each other in BC.

That can be said of the Liberals, where they have severed any formal ties they have, but not so the NDP.

According to their constitution, the provincial and federal NDP parties are linked.  If you're a member of the provincial party, you are a member of the federal party and are not allowed to support other parties.

 

[Armymatters]

That can be said of the Liberals, where they have severed any formal ties they have, but not so the NDP.

According to their constitution, the provincial and federal NDP parties are linked.  If you're a member of the provincial party, you are a member of the federal party and are not allowed to support other parties.

There is a exception: In Quebec, federal members of the NDP are allowed to campaign for any other provincial parties, due to the fact that the NDP has no real provincial Quebec affiliate.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Wiki isn't a source of law or custom, and in any event "usually" is inconsistent with "must".  It is conceivable for cabinet to include members from several parties, and permissible for them to dissent outside cabinet regardless whether that means the appointment will shortly thereafter be terminated.

>On a side note, I haven't had anyone take me up on my offer to bet that a Conservative will not be elected in Vancouver Kingsway next election.

Probably no-one will.  Emerson wouldn't have been dropped into the riding by Martin if Martin thought a Conservative stood a chance of winning.  Martin wanted Emerson to be a cabinet minister, and Martin provided the (approximately) safe seat.  In that, you can see the high regard in which Martin and Emerson and the LPC in general held the electorate of V-K.  For their part, a plurality of V-K accepted the deal - high standards for honourable democratic conduct all around.  Emerson dutifully said nasty things about the CPC in the next election.  Then, what do you know, on election night Martin decided the game wasn't worth playing any more.  Assuming Emerson truly does not believe that time in Opposition serves either his or the nation's interests, there would be only one obvious option: quit also.  But wait: at the twelfth-and-a-half hour, an offer was presented to do what he was recruited to do in the first place.  He's still the same guy, probably still holds the same beliefs and goals, and he still has a cabinet appointment.  Difference to the honourable electorate of V-K: colour of suit.  Yeah, it seems what they really wanted to do was say "Fuck you" to the Conservatives.  Good for them.

 

[Bart Nikodem]

I agree wikipedia is not the ideal source for parliamentary rules and etiquette but I was lazy and knew I would find something there. The fact he is a cabinet minister has less sting since Kirkhill pointed out that he would be able to possibly influence cabinet from the inside.( So still be able to represent constituents views that may run counter to the party)

I don't particularly hold the constituents of Vancouver-Kingsway in high regard vis a vis their political acumen or integrity. According to the numbers trumpeted by Ujjal Dosanjh (Defence critic,WTF?)  only 20% of the electorate knew who David Emerson was. The political dork in me is outraged and questions wether people should be allowed to vote if they don't have a basic level of political knowledge. But then the "Jacuzzi Marxist" in me takes over and reasons such views would be unpopular with some people so I bite my tongue.

If people just look for the Party on the ballot and disregard who is actually running as the candidate it's unfortunate but since the election reform act of 1970 when party names were placed on ballots, people have been able to do that. So be it. I don't like, but it's the best system we have. For now.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

  Emerson wouldn't have been dropped into the riding by Martin if Martin thought a Conservative stood a chance of winning.  Martin wanted Emerson to be a cabinet minister, and Martin provided the (approximately) safe seat.  In that, you can see the high regard in which Martin and Emerson and the LPC in general held the electorate of V-K.  For their part, a plurality of V-K accepted the deal - high standards for honourable democratic conduct all around.  Emerson dutifully said nasty things about the CPC in the next election.  Then, what do you know, on election night Martin decided the game wasn't worth playing any more.  Assuming Emerson truly does not believe that time in Opposition serves either his or the nation's interests, there would be only one obvious option: quit also.  But wait: at the twelfth-and-a-half hour, an offer was presented to do what he was recruited to do in the first place.  He's still the same guy, probably still holds the same beliefs and goals, and he still has a cabinet appointment.  Difference to the honourable electorate of V-K: colour of suit.  Yeah, it seems what they really wanted to do was say "Fuck you" to the Conservatives.  Good for them.

Kay, is it me or did I miss something?  Dude, WTF are you talking about?! 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

  http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/03/emerson_060303.html
Harper 'loath' to co-operate with ethics commissioner
Last Updated Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:11:45 EST
CBC News
The Prime Minister's Office attacked the credibility of the ethics commissioner Friday night after he announced an investigation into conflict of interest allegations against Stephen Harper.
Ethics commissioner Bernard Shapiro said he will look into what influence Harper wielded to convince former Liberal cabinet minister David Emerson to cross the House of Commons floor.

"The Prime Minister is loath to co-operate with an individual whose decision-making ability has been questioned, moreover who has been found in contempt of the House," said Sandra Buckler, the prime minister's director of communications.
"This Liberal appointee's actions have strengthened the Prime Minister's resolve to create a truly non-partisan ethics commissioner, who is accountable to Parliament."

Emerson ran as a Liberal in the campaign leading up to the Jan. 23 general election, but was a surprise appointment to Harper's Conservative cabinet on Feb. 6.
In a letter to three MPs who complained about the switch, Shapiro said he will issue one report on the conduct of both Harper and Emerson, who is now international trade minister.

"Although the subject of this inquiry is the prime minister, given that the actions of...Harper and Emerson in this incident were intertwined, questions will no doubt be raised during the course of the preliminary inquiry on the conduct of Mr. Emerson as well," Shapiro said in the letter, a copy of which was obtained by the Canadian Press.

But the PMO accused Shapiro of having a double standard when it comes to investigating Conservative MPs. It noted that he refused to investigate Liberal Tony Valeri's landholdings during the election campaign on the grounds the commissioner couldn't act between sittings of Parliament.
Based on that decision, the PMO is arguing that Shapiro has no business investigating something that happened in between the dissolution of the last Parliament and the commencement of the next one.

Shapiro has been criticized in the past. Former NDP MP Ed Broadbent accused him of having "extraordinarily serious credibility problems" after a series of questionable reports last year.
Shapiro was found in contempt of the House by a parliamentary committee regarding his investigation of a Tory MP. The committee concluded he violated MP code of conduct rules and also made inappropriate comments in a media interview, but it recommended no sanctions.
 
Emerson's switch to the Tories has upset many residents of his Vancouver-Kingsway riding.
Emerson has since formally apologized to his constituents, and has promised to run as a Conservative in the next general election.
The Vancouver-Kingsway riding has only voted Conservative once, in 1958.

In the Jan. 23 election, Emerson won just over 43 per cent of the vote for the Liberals, compared to 33.6 per cent for the second-place NDP candidate, Ian Waddell, and 18 per cent for Conservative Kanman Wong.
Emerson was the head of B.C. forestry giant Canfor when the Liberals recruited him as one of their "star" candidates for the 2004 election. Following his victory in Vancouver Kingsway, the 60-year-old was appointed as former prime minister Paul Martin's industry minister.

Emerson's previous jobs include deputy minister of finance for B.C., president of Western and Pacific Bank of Canada (now Canadian Western Bank) and head of the B.C. Trade Development Corp.

 

[Edward Campbell]

There was a rumour floating around the frozen little capital of all the Canadians back at election time to the effect that Harper was going to offer Ed Broadbent some sort of part-time, semi-honorary appointment which would allow Broadbent to design a politically workable package of measures to deal with ethics, etc in parliament and in government.  Harper, the rumour went would guarantee Broadbent that whatever was proposed would be implemented – not just another study designed to deflect public attention and then gather dust.

I though it was a good idea, especially the politically workable bit; we have progressed from Chrétien’s lap dog, a counsellor, to some sort of commissioner who seems a bit ethically and intellectually challenged himself.

We need sensible rules for public office holders – elected, appointed and salaried professionals, too and we need somebody or some body to hear complaints, conduct investigations, if warranted and report, publicly, after the investigation is concluded as in:

"I received a complaint from Ms. X, of the Liberal Party of Canada, complaining that a Minister had violated the established ethical standards by crossing the floor.  I investigated, thoroughly.  I concluded that this was a purely political issue: a partisan complaint about a political act.  No ethical standards were breached.  No action is warranted.”

or​

“I received a complaint about BGen Y using a DND staff car to take his family on week-end trips to a cottage.  I investigated, thoroughly.  I concluded that the complaint has merit. I have passed the file to the Judge Advocate General with a recommendation that the Code of Service Disciple be invoked to deal with this matter and, additionally, that BGen Y be required to repay the Crown $_,___.__ .”