Liberal Party Minister Defects to Tories

[The Gues-|-]

The PM asked him to join the Conservatives.

 

[tomahawk6]

Occaisionally in the US we have had politicians that switched parties. The last being Jim Jeffords.
He left the Republican party and joined forces with the democrats while posing as an Independent. He votes with the democrats. His constituents didnt vote him out of office and I doubt Emerson would lose a recall election particularly if he told his voters that he was fed up with the lying cheating Liberals.

 

[loyalcana]

Occaisionally in the US we have had politicians that switched parties. The last being Jim Jeffords.
He left the Republican party and joined forces with the democrats while posing as an Independent. He votes with the democrats. His constituents didnt vote him out of office and I doubt Emerson would lose a recall election particularly if he told his voters that he was fed up with the lying cheating Liberals.

Well the conservatives only got 16% in his ridings so unless it's the personal charisma of Emerson that one over voters chances are he not going to do too well if he does steps down and runs in a by-election(chances are the "lying liberals defence" will be neutralized by the "power-hungry minister" strategy.
BTW anyone call him a power-hungry whore yet

 

[Wizard of OZ]

I am sorry.

I was going to bite my tounge on this but I could not.  I don't really care that Emerson crossed.  Sure fine what ever one for one. Him for Belinda sure.  Harper through up a storm when she got a cabinet post and said that when/if he got into power he would never do that.  He also said that he would never apoint anyone to his cabinet that was not elected. Opps that one happened.  What about only apointing Senators that were elected?  Opps that happened to.  Not only did him make him a senator he made him part of his cabinet.  So much for standing up to Quebec.

I hate to say it but for all the change that we were supposed to get I am not very happy right now with our new PM.  When on your first day you break three of the rules you said you were going into power to change.  I voted for this man so I can bitch.  I am not happy one bit.  All this to make the provinces of Quebec and Ont happy oh yea and to give Vancover a voice.

I got a feeling the only change we are going to get is the colour of red to blue but things in office will stay the same.  So much for less Ottawa and more Alberta.  Can't wait to see how this plays out.  But I know a lot of people who voted for change that are having to swallow a bitter pill on HIS FIRST DAY.  Hopefully it is only a small one he will get back on track.  But I guess that is what happens when you bring in Mulroney and his former cabinet to help you make yours. 

MOO

 

[Armymedic]

That *insert seven letter insult*! He's my MP! We didn't vote Conservative in our riding! We voted Liberal or NDP! 

David Emerson -- Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics.
Prominant and successful business man who has already done much for his city, now Cabinet Minister...
Looks like you will actually have an effective MP who will ensure that Vancouver gets what it needs for the next 4 or so yrs.

What are you complaining about?

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Only if you think the government will last for four yrs.  I don't think it will be that long and I don't see him winning the seat again as a conservative in 58% minority riding.  I could be wrong it has happened before.  I see an election in 20-24 months.  Especially if Harper keeps this up.  The Liberals may be down now but History tells never to discount them.  If they get some new faces and a strong leader and Harper still has his blood or Mulroneys blood in the water.  Harper had better be careful.  Ont seems to remember the pain of Mulroney more then the Scandal of Cretien.

 

[kcdist]

That *insert seven letter insult*! He's my MP! We didn't vote Conservative in our riding! We voted Liberal or NDP! 

Mr Matters, take a deep breath and consider the following:

1. The Conservatives now have 125 seats. The NDP have 29. There is one small-C independent. Therefore, the NDP now matter in this parliament. Previously, the NDP plus Conservatives could not have forced a Bill through the Commons. Now they can. This move give the millions that voted NDP substantially more leverage in this House. I don't think Mr. Layton will be complaining too much.

2. One of the major knocks following this election was that the three largest cities did not have representation in Parliament. In fact, both the Liberals and the NDP complained about this very point. Now, both Vancouver and Montreal both have direct representation in Cabinet.

3. One of the shortcomings of the Conservatives was the lack of experience, particularly at the Federal cabinet level. This move has brought one very accomplished, experienced and capable individual to the table. Methinks this would be a generally good thing for the governance of the country.

4. One of the perceived issues with the Conservatives was that they were "scary". By introducing a small-L Liberal or 'red tory' to the cabinet table, Harper has broadened the Conservative tent, as well as introduced a 'calming' influence into the decision making mix.

5. Unlike Belinda's move, this move was made not out of desperation. There was no burning desire to add one more vote to prop up a tired, corrupt government.  Harper has likely thought this through quite well, and is using the defection to strengthen the effectiveness of his government.

I would think, partisanship aside, members of both the NDP and the Liberal party should agree that this move is actually a benefit for both. The NDP, due to their new relevance, and the Liberals, as they have got one of 'their' members inside cabinet. If the Liberals thought Emerson should be elected due to what he brought to parliament, one would think they should be delighted that he will again be able to use his skills and experience in the governance of the country.

Again, if you look at this move with partisanship removed from the equation, everybody wins.

 

[Armymatters]

Mr Matters, take a deep breath and consider the following:

1. The Conservatives now have 125 seats. The NDP have 29. There is one small-C independent. Therefore, the NDP now matter in this parliament. Previously, the NDP plus Conservatives could not have forced a Bill through the Commons. Now they can. This move give the millions that voted NDP substantially more leverage in this House. I don't think Mr. Layton will be complaining too much.

2. One of the major knocks following this election was that the three largest cities did not have representation in Parliament. In fact, both the Liberals and the NDP complained about this very point. Now, both Vancouver and Montreal both have direct representation in Cabinet.

3. One of the shortcomings of the Conservatives was the lack of experience, particularly at the Federal cabinet level. This move has brought one very accomplished, experienced and capable individual to the table. Methinks this would be a generally good thing for the governance of the country.

4. One of the perceived issues with the Conservatives was that they were "scary". By introducing a small-L Liberal or 'red tory' to the cabinet table, Harper has broadened the Conservative tent, as well as introduced a 'calming' influence into the decision making mix.

5. Unlike Belinda's move, this move was made not out of desperation. There was no burning desire to add one more vote to prop up a tired, corrupt government.  Harper has likely thought this through quite well, and is using the defection to strengthen the effectiveness of his government.

I would think, partisanship aside, members of both the NDP and the Liberal party should agree that this move is actually a benefit for both. The NDP, due to their new relevance, and the Liberals, as they have got one of 'their' members inside cabinet. If the Liberals thought Emerson should be elected due to what he brought to parliament, one would think they should be delighted that he will again be able to use his skills and experience in the governance of the country.

Again, if you look at this move with partisanship removed from the equation, everybody wins.

Not the constituents of Vancouver-Kingsway. The seat has historically belonged to the Liberals or the NDP. My reasoning that he should resign and run again in a by-election:
1. Mr. Emerson did not win his seat because of his persona or his character. He won it because he was a Liberal. Vancouver-Kingsway is a Liberal stronghold (with a strong NDP support base as well), and he was parachuted in by the Liberals because he could get the seat, no problem. He "commutes" from Shaughnessy, on the rich, west-side, in his BMW and Emerson definitely lacks a grasp of the social and economic issues at play in the riding, as the riding is primarily a lower income/working class neighbourhood. He got elected not on his own merits but on Liberal party support/anti-Tory sentiments that are very strong in this riding (I know, as I live in the riding). It's a complete travesty that Emerson has showed us just how much character he lacks, by doing this. Apparently he does not want to represent the views of the people in his riding. Also, due to the strong Chinese representation in this riding (40%), he got the seat because the Chinese community in Canada are fairly strong Liberal supporters.

2. The conservative support is pathetic in this riding, historically and presently. The Tories didn't even run a shadow of a viable candidate in Kanman Wong (with his 1970 Winebago campaign machine) during this past election or Jesse Johl in the previous. The Conservatives have traditionally ran political nobodies with zero experience at any level, limited points of view and no backing from the national campaign.

3. Any by-election in this riding that results from Emerson's resignation, or any future elections, will probally result in a VERY strong anti-Conservative backlash in this riding. Already, the Conservatives are taking flak for reneging on some of their promises. Mr. Emerson won this riding because he was a Liberal, but only barely. This riding will most likely go NDP in any future elections, over this, and the fact that the NDP field a extremely strong candidate in Ian Wadell. Ian Waddell has fairly strong support in the election and finished a respectable second. A Vancouver lawyer and film producer, he actually lives in the riding, unlike Mr. Emerson. Well educated with degrees in history, teaching and a Masters in International Economic Law. Waddell has experience at the provincial level as Minister of Small Business, Tourism and Culture, Environment Minister, and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and previous national experience as a 4 time MP and the NDP's energy, justice and environment critic. He is involved in community initiatives - taking on slum landlords in Vancouver’s Eastside, elected national director of the Sierra Club of Canada, counsel to the Berger Commission on the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline and Chair of the Fraser Basin Council. He has more than just his political office in this riding, as he lives, works, and participates in this riding's activities and daily on-goings. He's an expert at energy, aboriginal and environment law and a published author, “A Thirst To Die For”, about protecting against water exports to the US.

 

[kcdist]

You may very well be right that Mr Emerson will lose in the next election (if he runs).

However, in the interim, be satisfied that your riding has direct representation at the cabinet table, and Vancouver, as a whole, has a voice in the inner circle. My point remains that nothing will change as far as the sustainability of the minority government, with the exception of the newfound NDP power. I don't think Mr Emerson's skills, abilities and attributes have signifigantly change from yesterday to today.

Additionally, with Mr. Emerson's background in the forestry industry, coupled with his role as International Trade minister and the hopefull thawing of U.S./Canada relations , there just might be cause for optimism on the Softwood Lumber dispute. This, I believe, will greatly benefit all British Columbians.

Bottom line, Harper had a hole in his government (lack of city representation), and he went out and fixed it. That said, if you still want to mope about party affiliation, mope on.

 

[Armymatters]

1. The people of Vancouver-Kingsway will have something to say about that. I was just talking with a few neighbours who live in the riding with me, and they are outright furious. There is even the start of a rumor that a petition will be created to force Emerson resign his seat. If the Conservatives wanted to have some representation in our city, they should field better candidates and run a stronger platform that focus on the cities.

2. Emerson, although with his forestry background, hasn't done anything while he was a Liberal cabinet minister to resolve the softwood lumber issue. Also, the riding does not have anyone working the forestry industry; it is primarily an area dominated by service sector workers and low income families. Wrong riding to talk about softwood lumber.

3. A MP's job is to represent the people of his/her riding, not represent the province of which the riding is in. Mr. Emerson got his seat because he ran as a Liberal, and the riding is a strong Liberal supporter. If he had ran as a Conservative, he would not have won his seat at all.

 

[FredDaHead]

I got a question for you, Armymatters.

Do you believe Belinda Stronach should have resigned and run in a by-election? After all, the people in her riding didn't vote for the criminals Liberals.

For now, I consider you to be a hypocrite. Why else would you whine and bitch about Emerson running in a by-election, but say nothing of Stronach's greedy grab for power?

 

[Armymatters]

I got a question for you, Armymatters.

Do you believe Belinda Stronach should have resigned and run in a by-election? After all, the people in her riding didn't vote for the criminals Liberals.

For now, I consider you to be a hypocrite. Why else would you whine and ***** about Emerson running in a by-election, but say nothing of Stronach's greedy grab for power?

She should have. But she did win her seat in this election as a Liberal, so that point is somewhat moot. But at the time? She should have resigned, or became a independant.

 

[kcdist]

2. Emerson, although with his forestry background, hasn't done anything while he was a Liberal cabinet minister to resolve the softwood lumber issue. Also, the riding does not have anyone working the forestry industry; it is primarily an area dominated by service sector workers and low income families. Wrong riding to talk about softwood lumber.

I just don't believe you see the big picture here.

Emerson likely understands the issues behind the softwood lumber dispute better that any elected member of parliament. Relations between the U.S. and Canada under the Liberals were poisonous. With a more positive relationship between the two governments, there is a strong likelihood the matter may be resolved. Emerson, by all accounts, is a perfect fit for the role.

Low income families are generally users of government services. Government services are paid for by tax dollars. A large percentage of tax dollars in B.C. are derived from the forestry industry. Therefore, by extension, resolving the softwood lumber dispute will strengthen the forestry industry, thereby providing more available tax dollars to low income families.

A component of leadership is the ability to utilize the strengths and skills of those around you. Harper obviously seized on this to the benefit of his government and by extension, the population of Vancouver and B.C.

It is only those practicing petty politics that are truly upset by this decision. 

I think the appointment is a stroke of genius. Besides, in the chess game of politics, I think Harper is likely thinking six moves ahead of the rest of us.

 

[TCBF]

"Apparently he does not want to represent the views of the people in his riding."

- Not that he would have learned how as a Liberal, would he?

Tom

 

[FredDaHead]

She should have. But she did win her seat in this election as a Liberal, so that point is somewhat moot. But at the time? She should have resigned, or became a independant.

Yes, the point is moot now just as Emerson's change might be a moot point if he gets elected as a Tory. (I have no clue about the politics of your riding other than what you have said, so I'll refrain from speculation.)

Thanks for clearing that up though, your stock went up a couple of points above the random whiny people.

 

[a_majoor]

On the one hand, we have a person who seems to have opportunistically defected from a sinking ship to a plum position in the new government.

On the other hand we are being told that Mr Emerson was courted and selected to fill a hole in the Conservative line-up; and has certain skills and experience which should assist us in the Softwood lumber dispute.

Truthfully, while the explanation makes a certain amount of sense, the optics are just terrible. Prime Minister Harper will need to use a lot of his political skill and perhaps some political capital on damage control, which makes getting the real job done more difficult.

The only way to salvage this and really turn it into a posative is for Prime Minister Harper to actively recruit Bloc and NDP members as well, but do it openly and above board and for the same reasons given for Mr Emerson. This will prevent the Prime Minister from recruiting a dunce simply because that person happens to occupy an important riding. I would refrain from recruiting any more Liberals, at least until the inquiries, criminal investigations and trials are all finished and sentances handed out. No need to court real trouble by accepting damaged goods.

 

[tomahawk6]

I just don't believe you see the big picture here.

Emerson likely understands the issues behind the softwood lumber dispute better that any elected member of parliament. Relations between the U.S. and Canada under the Liberals were poisonous. With a more positive relationship between the two governments, there is a strong likelihood the matter may be resolved. Emerson, by all accounts, is a perfect fit for the role.

Low income families are generally users of government services. Government services are paid for by tax dollars. A large percentage of tax dollars in B.C. are derived from the forestry industry. Therefore, by extension, resolving the softwood lumber dispute will strengthen the forestry industry, thereby providing more available tax dollars to low income families.

A component of leadership is the ability to utilize the strengths and skills of those around you. Harper obviously seized on this to the benefit of his government and by extension, the population of Vancouver and B.C.

It is only those practicing petty politics that are truly upset by this decision.   

I think the appointment is a stroke of genius. Besides, in the chess game of politics, I think Harper is likely thinking six moves ahead of the rest of us.

I think I agree with this analysis. Harper's government is more likely to make headway on the softwoods issue than martin. In fact the US government may give in to help Harper out. If that happened all would be forgiven with Emerson and the voters I expect.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>We didn't vote Conservative in our riding! We voted Liberal or NDP!

You use "we" rather broadly.  There's another point of view for the constituents: they voted for a cabinet minister, and now they have a cabinet minister.  Some may even have voted for "David Emerson".  Imagine that!

>Unlike Belinda, who did it on a matter of values,

Another celebrity joins army.ca.  Everyone say "Welcome" to Rick Mercer.

If Harper just wanted a pro-business talking head in Cabinet for Vancouver, I suppose he could have found another Fortier among the local CEOs.  It seems to have escaped the attention of our pro-NDP contributor that while Harper had no particular need at this time to entice a Liberal (or any other non-CPC MP) to cross to simply prop up the government, the movement of exactly one Liberal or Bloc MP to the Conservative benches changed the NDP from a party noisemaker to a deal maker in Parliament.  Harper just moved Jack! from the "spectator" column to the "player" column.  How do you feel about that?  Notwithstanding the fact it serves Harper's interests to have one more party with which to pass legislation, I wonder whether anyone in the NDP ranks will be able to choke out a simple "Thank you".

If I can figure out that:
1) Harper's government is in no immediate danger unless the opposition parties collectively have an attack of Big Stupid,
2) Harper already has two centre-left and left-leaning opposition parties with which to broker deals to pass legislation,
3) Harper could have pulled in another non-MP, and
4) The manoeuvre might result in party and supporter dissatisfaction and a public relations shitstorm,

then I am pretty sure Harper could figure all this out for himself beforehand.  So why, after running what was by all accounts a disciplined and well-planned campaign, would he do this?  A couple of possibilities:

1) The campaign we just witnessed was an elaborate practical joke, or
2) Harper genuinely intends to push ahead with his five priorities and govern for "all Canadians".

I remember a lot of noise being made about how the last Parliament should govern for "all Canadians", and how important it was to "make Parliament work".  It'll be high comedy if that rudderless disaster is replaced by one that actually fills the bill and receives no credit for it.

 

[Armymedic]

+1 to all of Brads comments.

I feel that doing it so quickly after the election was to make all Liberals make fishy faces  :-X in retaliation for Belinda Stronach, AND Scott Brisson crossing the floor during the last parliment.  Its their way of saying, how do you like the game now?

A political coup de grace, so to speak. Bill Graham's ineffectual reaction is case and point.

With those issues out of the way, the Tories can now attempt to bring in their accountably and election reforms

 

[Edward Campbell]

For the sake of argument, but not just for that: if most of what David Emerson said yesterday regarding his reasons for crossing the floor are true then maybe more and more MPs, of all parties, should follow suit.

Here is what I think I heard Emerson say:

• “I was a pretty apolitical fellow, not a card carrying Liberal, when Paul Martin called on me to run for office and serve in his cabinet in a senior economic (industry) portfolio.  I agreed because I think it is high time I did some public service and because I think I am well qualified to be a national leader;

• “I was ready and even willing to ride the back benches – I ran for office, my party lost, that’s life;

• “When Stephen Harper offered me a chance to join his government I analyzed my motives for entering politics.  I’m still a pretty apolitical fellow; I am still, in my opinion, well equipped (intellect and experience) to play a lead role in parliament and government.  I have no insurmountable philosophical differences with Harper and the Conservatives – I was a ”small c Liberal”, on the right wing of that party – I think Harper has moved the Conservatives to that part of the ‘centre’ where I am fairly comfortable; and

• “It is best to use one’s talents to maximize their contributions to the country, province, region etc – I can better serve my country, province and region in cabinet.  The Electors of Vancouver Kingsway elected David Emerson, I offered myself under the Liberal Party’s banner but it was, at the end of day, David Emerson on offer, not just another one of Paul Martin’s Liberals.”

He is harking back to 17th century politics – when the Whigs and Tories emerged but when most parliamentarians (lords and commoners) were only loosely tied to anything like a party or movement.  Individuals – Shaftsbury, author of our modern understanding of habeas corpus, for example – were notoriously changeable or, maybe, fickle in their political allegiances.  Many were, honestly, trying their best to serve their country by making and breaking parliamentary alliances to support or oppose this, that or the other policy.

I remember when David MacDonald jumped the traces from the Tories to the NDP (and into NDP leader Alexa McDonough’s bed, too, as it happened, although the affair did not last).  I was not stunned, many of the so-called Red Tories were closer to the NDP than to the Liberals. They were – like Bob Rae – silk stocking socialists and even though MacDonald was wealthy and a natural fit for the upper class Toronto Rosedale riding (which he lost, as a NDP candidate, to opposition leader Bill Graham) he and his Red Tory cronies were uncomfortable with the Liberals who are – have been almost forever – the party of big money, big business and even big labour.  (The natural Tories have small town, small business values.)  MacDonald was a cabinet minister, too.  He had quite firm social values, I guess, which he reckoned were better ‘expressed’ in the NDP – maybe for the same reasons Keith Martin and Scott Brison bolted the Day and Harper led Reform/Alliance and Conservative parties.

In any event, back to my point: maybe Emerson crossed the floor for the right reasons – to best serve his constituents and his country.  It brings to mind Edmund Burke’s Speech to the Electors of Bristol:

” Certainly, gentlemen, it ought to be the happiness and glory of a representative to live in the strictest union, the closest correspondence, and the most unreserved communication with his constituents. Their wishes ought to have great weight with him; their opinion, high respect; their business, unremitted attention. It is his duty to sacrifice his repose, his pleasures, his satisfactions, to theirs; and above all, ever, and in all cases, to prefer their interest to his own. But his unbiassed opinion, his mature judgment, his enlightened conscience, he ought not to sacrifice to you, to any man, or to any set of men living. These he does not derive from your pleasure; no, nor from the law and the constitution. They are a trust from Providence, for the abuse of which he is deeply answerable. Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.”

I wish there were practices in place to require floor crossers to, at least, cool down and secure the support of their new party – especially before jumping into cabinet, but I would not want to discourage floor crossing, on any direction.  Burke reminds us that we should elect men and women of talent and judgment, not cogs in political machines.