Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????

[Navy_Pete]

If he ran as a conservative, that would be priceless, would potentially make a good MND too.

If nothing else, there would be some really awkward poking about why things like records failed to turn up and similar nonsense that came up during his trial.

Personally I think he'd be a better talking head for the newspapers then a lot of the frequently quoted retired Navy folks, and I think that occasional pundit wouldn't be a bad retirement gig. Personally would prefer exclusive milspec widget supplier but that works better for my personality.

 

[ModlrMike]

Initially I thought that I might be too cynical... but then again, perhaps not:

Trudeau planning social welfare system overhaul, sources say

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is weighing sweeping changes to Canada’s social welfare system

Source: Global News

 

[Ostrozac]

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is weighing sweeping changes to Canada’s social welfare system

Of course, this is largely impossible, because Canada doesn’t have a social welfare system. Canadian provinces have social welfare systems. Which makes it the best kind of political argument, as it sounds good, and when it inevitability fails to make progress it costs nothing and you can blame the provinces.

 

[brihard]

Of course, this is largely impossible, because Canada doesn’t have a social welfare system. Canadian provinces have social welfare systems. Which makes it the best kind of political argument, as it sounds good, and when it inevitability fails to make progress it costs nothing and you can blame the provinces.

The federal powers of taxation (and refundable tax credits) give them a lot to work with. Just because we typically think of ‘welfare’ as a provincial thing, the potential federal power in this sphere is considerable.

 

[Ostrozac]

The federal powers of taxation (and refundable tax credits) give them a lot to work with. Just because we typically think of ‘welfare’ as a provincial thing, the potential federal power in this sphere is considerable.

Federal income tax credits work great, for those that have income. Just like unemployment insurance works for those that have had employment. For those truly in need, the provinces play a central role. And the widely respected Intergovernmental Affairs Minister has just been promoted out of her job. Best of luck to the new guy, hope he’s a quick study.

 

[ballz]

Federal income tax credits work great, for those that have income. Just like unemployment insurance works for those that have had employment. For those truly in need, the provinces play a central role. And the widely respected Intergovernmental Affairs Minister has just been promoted out of her job. Best of luck to the new guy, hope he’s a quick study.

They can pull a Canada Health Act move.... create a federal transfer program and force provinces to choose between abiding by the federal standards on welfare, or not get the transfers. The money for the transfers of course, has already been taken from the province's own citizens, so the province essentially has their legs cut off and taken hostage... abide or you don't get your legs back. It's sad how poorly our constitution was written.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Not quite the same.

First of all, public health care as an issue was started by provinces, one in particular: Saskatchewan. It grew from there to become a national issue over a period of about seven years. But also, health care before the National Health Act was private. The provinces had very little in terms of health departments as there was little to manage or run.

In matters of welfare, it is totally different. The various provinces already have well established programs with large departments that would not take it lightly if interfered with by the feds. So there would be very high resistance and that would add time and court challenges. Ottawa would not be able to do anything quickly - which would be the point.

Also, there would be great resistance to federal interference from Quebec and Alberta. With Doug Ford in Ontario, it would likely also join in. Without these three provinces onboard, there is little chance of success as the risk of electoral alienation would be too great.

 

[ModlrMike]

The other way would to be to combine all existing federal benefits into a single payment against a means tested metric.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The other way would to be to combine all existing federal benefits into a single payment against a means tested metric.

My guess is that they'll try to roll out a national 'guaranteed income' benefit, and probably free tuition too because they like to think they're European.

Mainland European, that is

 

[Brad Sallows]

Sounds like a move to eliminate the pests on their left by taking over two of the NDP's (and Green's) biggest planks: tax-and-redistribute, and tax-and-green.

 

[Donald H]

Sounds like a move to eliminate the pests on their left by taking over two of the NDP's (and Green's) biggest planks: tax-and-redistribute, and tax-and-green.

I would say 'yes' Brad, the Liberals are about to test the political climate of the country by turning more left. In this case possibly to save their bacon.
Could be Trudeau's read of US politics in that it looks a lot like Trump is done and they're getting ready to move left too.

 

[Cloud Cover]

The other way would to be to combine all existing federal benefits into a single payment against a means tested metric.

Great way to disqualify a large number of people with incomes and are receiving some form of benefit. For example-child care subsidy that is means tested.

However, means tests are also a disincentive to do better, and it will create large numbers, maybe very large numbers, of even more people disinclined to work hard to make more money. Perhaps lifetime maximum benefit combining all programs except health care might be an answer. In other words, great benefits to a dollar point, and even then you must qualify.
It’s easier to cut than to spend.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Greasy, as per.


Spouse of Trudeau’s Chief of Staff Lobbied for COVID Wage Subsidy Program Changes to Benefit His Company
Rob Silver, Katie Telford’s husband, is not a registered lobbyist and went on a concerted campaign to get ex-finance minister Bill Morneau to change the rules to the multi-billion dollar program, sources say.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/935m87/spouse-of-justin-trudeaus-chief-of-staff-lobbied-for-covid-wage-subsidy-program-changes-to-benefit-his-company?utm_source=reddit.com

 

[brihard]

Great way to disqualify a large number of people with incomes and are receiving some form of benefit. For example-child care subsidy that is means tested.

However, means tests are also a disincentive to do better, and it will create large numbers, maybe very large numbers, of even more people disinclined to work hard to make more money. Perhaps lifetime maximum benefit combining all programs except health care might be an answer. In other words, great benefits to a dollar point, and even then you must qualify.
It’s easier to cut than to spend.

Alternatively, a sliding scale of clawback- definitely not dollar for dollar. Maybe allow A modest x amount earned without deduction (though all taxable), and a larger y amount reduced 50 cents on the dollar. That’s very coarse, obviously any universal income program would have to be war games in many iterations and coordinated heavily between levels of government.

 

[suffolkowner]

Alternatively, a sliding scale of clawback- definitely not dollar for dollar. Maybe allow A modest x amount earned without deduction (though all taxable), and a larger y amount reduced 50 cents on the dollar. That’s very coarse, obviously any universal income program would have to be war games in many iterations and coordinated heavily between levels of government.

Negative income tax-universal income scenarios could definetly get complicated but last I read some years ago there were over 170 income supplement programs in Canada, and that seems out of control(I'm assuming some duplication across provinces so maybe divide by 10 but I don't know)

 

[Good2Golf]

Greasy, as per.


Spouse of Trudeau’s Chief of Staff Lobbied for COVID Wage Subsidy Program Changes to Benefit His Company
Rob Silver, Katie Telford’s husband, is not a registered lobbyist and went on a concerted campaign to get ex-finance minister Bill Morneau to change the rules to the multi-billion dollar program, sources say.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/935m87/spouse-of-justin-trudeaus-chief-of-staff-lobbied-for-covid-wage-subsidy-program-changes-to-benefit-his-company?utm_source=reddit.com

Bubbles thinks so too...

 

[dapaterson]

More interesting: some claim that the takedown of Morneau was run out of Telford's office, and the takedown of Silver is being done by Morneau loyalists in the party.

aka this is LPC civil war.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

More interesting: some claim that the takedown of Morneau was run out of Telford's office, and the takedown of Silver is being done by Morneau loyalists in the party.

aka this is LPC civil war.

Payback is a b!tch.

The Telford PMO has been playing too clever by a half for five years. It is no surprise that they might have begun to run out of allies.

 

[dapaterson]

Running out of allies, or running out of people to push under the bus?

 

[Good2Golf]

Running out of allies, or running out of important enough people to push under the bus to keep the rest of the caucus and Neo-LPC faithful blindly supportive of Hair&Socks?

There we go. You’re welcome. :nod: