Let "The Journey" Begin

[stellarpanther]

Wanting to deploy or not, we all signed the dotted line, they say go, you go. If you have an issue with that, do not join the CAF

Everyone knows that's how it is now but that might not be how it is in the future.  Not me and not you as far as I know will be the ones deciding that.  There is discussion about that.  One thing we were all told is that in 5-10 years, the CAF of of today will not be recognizable.  We'll see what happens.

Things are changing, just a couple weeks ago, I was criticized for talking about Reservist not getting paid and now their getting paid a just to check in and say their ok, the Sr. Leadership is looking at finding a way to accumulate leave or find some option for people that were on leave and needed to isolate.  Something my WO said to me the other day was we have ref's but things are changing daily.

 

[MilEME09]

Frig. I'm a civilian now and potentially have to look forward to that if things crap the bed here with this...and it wasn't in the contract when I signed up either incidentally. 

Thinking of small militaries of "neutral" countries, the Irish use their small military to punch above their weight class by deploying units on UN missions - in fact you are required to endorse you're willing to do at least 2 tours (IIRC) when you sign up or you can kiss your job goodbye (a big deal in a country with high unemployment).  This helps keep Ireland visible and relevant on the world stage AND keeps their professional military experienced. 

:2c:

MM

Talking to a British territorial, they can be deployed once every 4 years if I recall correctly. Systems we should consider changing ours to.

 

[stellarpanther]

Is there anyone on here that can either ref what I'm referring to or address it better? I know how things are now but I'm referring to the way.  The way the group I was in at it explained was that there would be 3 elements.  Reservists, Reg F who are fully deployable and Reg F that don't deploy.  It would also be easier to switch back and forth.

 

[PuckChaser]

Are you thinking of the Journey project within the CAF? 3 classes of people: Deployable and moveable, Deployable not moveable, and Not deployable not moveable. People in the deployable/moveable category would be paid more and be promoted far beyond people in the non-deployable/moveable category.

We're years away from that being approved, it would need a ground up pay and allowances re-write.

 

[MilEME09]

Are you thinking of the Journey project within the CAF? 3 classes of people: Deployable and moveable, Deployable not moveable, and Not deployable not moveable. People in the deployable/moveable category would be paid more and be promoted far beyond people in the non-deployable/moveable category.

We're years away from that being approved, it would need a ground up pay and allowances re-write.

Not to mention how would that affect the PRes? We by default are not moveable,but speaking for my self I want to deploy (and I am on OP LASER). How would the CAF govern the 3 categories? Volunteers? Because you bet more people would want to not move or deploy if it can be helped especially those with family.

 

[stellarpanther]

Are you thinking of the Journey project within the CAF? 3 classes of people: Deployable and moveable, Deployable not moveable, and Not deployable not moveable. People in the deployable/moveable category would be paid more and be promoted far beyond people in the non-deployable/moveable category.

We're years away from that being approved, it would need a ground up pay and allowances re-write.

Yes that's it.  We were told 5-10 years.  Some of it WRT to medical is already somewhat being implemented. People are not being released nearly as much as they used to be., even compared to just a few years ago.  When I asked my MO about he said it's called "employable but not deployable".  I'll be honest. it seems confusing because as far as I've seen, nothing has changed as for as the Universality of Service goes but they've cut way back on med releases and are authorizing P-cat's with restrictions that would have had a mbr out the door even a few years ago.  I've seen P-cats come back saying no drill/parade greater than 30 minutes, no ruck sack marches, Self directed PT at own pace etc, some say PT limited in type and duration or words to that effect but I've seen both  meaning when the unit goes to the field the mbr goes to the gym or a jog /walk and does what he wants for how long he wants.  I've heard of some units especially combat trades pushing back but it's happening more and more.

 

[stellarpanther]

Not to mention how would that affect the PRes? We by default are not moveable,but speaking for my self I want to deploy (and I am on OP LASER). How would the CAF govern the 3 categories? Volunteers? Because you bet more people would want to not move or deploy if it can be helped especially those with family.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions about it but it's a topic that comes up frequently at townhalls and we're told it's going forward but will be 5-10 years away before everything is implemented. It's being implemented slowly in part over time.  Mbr's would be able to choose the option they want.  They apparently have a dedicated team looking at this we were told.

 

[PuckChaser]

Not to mention how would that affect the PRes? We by default are not moveable,but speaking for my self I want to deploy (and I am on OP LASER). How would the CAF govern the 3 categories? Volunteers? Because you bet more people would want to not move or deploy if it can be helped especially those with family.

Yep, there will be a lot of volunteers to not move or deploy. But it seems like those individuals will not be promoted and it was mentioned their pay will be a lot lower than those who are deployable/moveable. There will also likely be limited spots available so I would hope if you've hit 25 years not moving or deploying then you're not offered TOS and someone else can have your job. They haven't walked the dog on any of these fine details, at least in public, so we'll have to wait until the process is further along.

PRes was a whole other ball of wax that I haven't heard anything briefed on.

 

[stellarpanther]

Yep, there will be a lot of volunteers to not move or deploy. But it seems like those individuals will not be promoted and it was mentioned their pay will be a lot lower than those who are deployable/moveable. There will also likely be limited spots available so I would hope if you've hit 25 years not moving or deploying then you're not offered TOS and someone else can have your job. They haven't walked the dog on any of these fine details, at least in public, so we'll have to wait until the process is further along.

PRes was a whole other ball of wax that I haven't heard anything briefed on.

are

As far as promotions, since the option of opting out of promotions/PER's happened a few years ago, a lot of people are putting in the paperwork to stay Cpl for life
The only thing I've heard about the PRes was that it would be much easier and quick for them to become full time.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yes that's it.  We were told 5-10 years.  Some of it WRT to medical is already somewhat being implemented. People are not being released nearly as much as they used to be., even compared to just a few years ago.  When I asked my MO about he said it's called "employable but not deployable".  I'll be honest. it seems confusing because as far as I've seen, nothing has changed as for as the Universality of Service goes but they've cut way back on med releases and are authorizing P-cat's with restrictions that would have had a mbr out the door even a few years ago.  I've seen P-cats come back saying no drill/parade greater than 30 minutes, no ruck sack marches, Self directed PT at own pace etc, some say PT limited in type and duration or words to that effect but I've seen both  meaning when the unit goes to the field the mbr goes to the gym or a jog /walk and does what he wants for how long he wants.  I've heard of some units especially combat trades pushing back but it's happening more and more.

That's a nice dream for a lot of people I'm sure but it's never going to work.


Where are you getting that they've cut way back on medical releases?

 

[stellarpanther]

That's a nice dream for a lot of people I'm sure but it's never going to work.


Where are you getting that they've cut way back on medical releases?

I've heard it from an MO, heard it from someone who's wife is a PA and see the PCat's when we put them on the Pers File. I'm not saying they're not releasing people, they are but they are often allowing people to continue serving for things that would have had them released not long ago.

 

[ballz]

I believe the categories that are alternatives to deployable/moveable were, for the most part, meant to be temporary as well.... To accommodate, for example, people's family needs/desires to give their young teenagers some stability until they finish high school.

I did not get the impression that the intent was you could join the reg force as non-deployable/non-moveable and stay that way for an entire career.

Also important to note that the CAF isn't particularly good at long-term cultural changes like this due to the nature of career progression, among other things. No matter who's baby this is, or even if it's a group of people's baby, they are all switching positions every year. It comes across as one of Vance's babies and he's already been the longest serving CDS ever, odds of him being around for another five years to keep driving that idea are pretty remote.

 

[stellarpanther]

I believe the categories that are alternatives to deployable/moveable were, for the most part, meant to be temporary as well.... To accommodate, for example, people's family needs/desires to give their young teenagers some stability until they finish high school.

I did not get the impression that the intent was you could join the reg force as non-deployable/non-moveable and stay that way for an entire career.

Also important to note that the CAF isn't particularly good at long-term cultural changes like this due to the nature of career progression, among other things. No matter who's baby this is, or even if it's a group of people's baby, they are all switching positions every year. It comes across as one of Vance's babies and he's already been the longest serving CDS ever, odds of him being around for another five years to keep driving that idea are pretty remote.

When we were briefed we were told you would probably select the option at the recruiting centre. Someone who only has a few years until they retire might want to do this and coast to retirement without the worry of a move or deployment was another suggestion. Until it's actually implemented, anything could happen.  As far as where it started, I believe Gen Lawson started the conversation but Gen Vance ran with it.  Apparently a lot of the CAF leadership are on board with this as they feel it might help with retention.  Who knows, after this virus is done with the economy things might be so bad people will stay just to have an income.

 

[my72jeep]

Can you tell me with a straight face that you think the people who join the military and don't want to deploy outside of Canada will be okay with deploying across Canada in a time like this and leaving their family behind? Go stay in an abandoned arena and eat rations for 2 or 3 months?

Hell back in 1983 when I joined I’d have loved that, now maybe not so much.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Where are you getting that they've cut way back on medical releases?

That info has circulated prominently around my unit also. Medical releases are being evaluated under much higher scrutiny atm than they were in recent years, due to CAF wanting to focus on retention and getting the members back to regular duty; be it in a different trade, element, whathaveyou. That was from our LCol.

 

[Quirky]

Can you tell me with a straight face that you think the people who join the military and don't want to deploy outside of Canada will be okay with deploying across Canada in a time like this and leaving their family behind? Go stay in an abandoned arena and eat rations for 2 or 3 months?

Give me 6-9 months sleeping in a desert cot over a concrete floor in an arena. Plus I doubt they will be giving out OP LASER medals and tax-free salary like you would overseas. Still waiting for my OP HONOR medal....

 

[Navy_Pete]

Those options don't really make sense, and there are lots of people that could stay as 'deployable/moveable' but never actually do either (because of how their particular trade works and where they are in their career).

I'll use myself as an example; short of a deployment in some kind of purple position (which I haven't seen even a request for volunteers for in ages since Afg wound down), that's it for me, as I've done my ship tours and been promoted past those. Something like 75% of the positions at my current rank are based in Ottawa (with all the project work over the next 20 years), and there are more positions then people. I could easily continue to jump between jobs and organizations in Ottawa with no issue for the rest of my career without ever saying I don't want to move cities, but easily still be deployable/moveable.  And that wouldn't even be intentionally playing the system, just the reality of where I'm currently at and what holes need filled. There are probably all kinds of other trades that will stay in one geographic location (ie with the same battalion) but deploy all the time as part of normal ops, and others that would move geographic locations but rarely deploy. There are too many variables to make a simple rule out of this.

I think the move every two years plan is a relic from the days of the dad working while mom stays home with the kids. That age is dead. This work from home for an extended period of time should put yet another nail in the coffin showing that with the right tools being in the same office every day isn't necessary, so no reason to move people around so much, or have the team working in the same geographic locations.

I could see that just leading to a whack of grievances anyway; they'll inevitably need to deploy/move someone with a no deploy/move clause, then will be an arguement over pay or back pay. Rather then trying to create this insane new system to fix a problem, why not just give people more flexibility in where they locate their people?  A few years ago, we had a guy posted to us in Ottawa from Halifax that had something come up so made more sense for us to set him up in an office there and be our local contact for the project for the refit we were setting up in Halifax. It ruffled some feathers, but made more sense for us and worked out for the member. Ended up in a bit of TD cost, but was way cheaper then a cost move, and also meant he kept working for us instead of retiring right away. Most of these stupid top down initiatives are started because people are trying to fix a complex issue with a silver bullet, which normally just means you ignore the individual root causes and make a new problem.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

...Things are changing, just a couple weeks ago, I was criticized for talking about Reservist not getting paid and now their getting paid...

Don’t go down this path again. For clarity and accuracy to all readers who may not be aware of your earlier posts, or the comments which followed, you weren’t getting “criticized” for saying Cl A’s should get paid. It was being pointed out, very clearly might I add, by multiple users, that the way in which you continued to argue your position without so much as the slightest nod of acknowledgement to those who were trying to shed light on the situation was what was being brought to your attention—it was your overall tone. If you’re going to reference earlier interactions, then please put them in the proper context.

But you are correct in that they are getting paid. A system was established, orders came down and many are (hopefully) happy about that.

 

[TCM621]

That info has circulated prominently around my unit also. Medical releases are being evaluated under much higher scrutiny atm than they were in recent years, due to CAF wanting to focus on retention and getting the members back to regular duty; be it in a different trade, element, whathaveyou. That was from our LCol.

I'm not looking forward to this. I have 24 years in and I don't want to be told a few years from now, we will take away your rank and you can give us a few more years as a Cpl RMS clerk. The first sign I see of any thing lime that and I stop pretending it doesn't hurt to work. I imagine a lot of older people are in a similar boat to me.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

I'm not looking forward to this. I have 24 years in and I don't want to be told a few years from now, we will take away your rank and you can give us a few more years as a Cpl RMS clerk. The first sign I see of any thing lime that and I stop pretending it doesn't hurt to work. I imagine a lot of older people are in a similar boat to me.

I never got the impression that those who are legitimate cases would be denied and forced to continue working or VR, or anything of that nature. The message I interpreted was that if a member is still able-bodied enough, and able to meet UOS in another position other than what they were doing, (for example, this was the case of one of the members: can no longer perform all duties as required as a Firefighter, but can as HRA) then they would heavily lean towards that option. Also, them needing to put greater emphasis on weeding those out who are intentionally seeking a 3b/“the golden ticket” by exaggerating their conditions—We know they exist, which is deeply unfortunate.