Legion Poppy Copyright issues (bikers, NHL, etc.)

[Danjanou]

Thanks for the avalanche of milpoints and comments via PM last night. ironically I was at a Legion meeting and had to turn my BB off as the beeping on new messages was distracting. While this issue did not come up in the meeting, it was a topic of conversation after over a beer or two in the clubroom. Happy to report some people do get it and as Legion members see this action as wrong. Where it goes we will see. I spent my morning poppying as I'd agreed to do and will do again before the 11th.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

While we are on the subject of the poppy, am I the only one finding this batch a bit less durable?  Mine has really been shedding.

Glad to hear that some legion members see this as wrong.

 

[Strike]

I'm just wondering when the RCL is going to start coming after Mike for his poppy emoticon.  :nod:

:remembrance:

 

[PMedMoe]

I'm just wondering when the RCL is going to start coming after Mike for his poppy emoticon.  :nod:

:remembrance:

Nah.  They ditched the poppy with the green middle a while ago. 

 

[Occam]

Nah.  They ditched the poppy with the green middle a while ago. 

Trademark is still active, though.  Application number 0980289.

 

[PMedMoe]

Trademark is still active, though.  Application number 0980289.

Curses!  Foiled again! 

 

[Good2Golf]

Trademark is still active, though.  Application number 0980289.

RCL's Trademark is for a symmetrical, 4-leaf poppy.  Technically, it is TM registration number "TMA586995."  The application number you refer to was to register the earlier red and green design.


Mike's poppy is asymmetrical and has five leaves and thus is not in contravention of the RCL registered trademark.  If folks want to play the game, they have to live by all the rules.


Regards
G2G

 

[The Bread Guy]

Of, if you'd like some variety, there's now the Brit Legion poppy available for iconing....
:brit poppy:

 

[Michael OLeary]

Interestingly, Veterans Affairs isn't using the Legion poppy on their website.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/veterans-week

 

[ProudNewfoundlander]

Is it any wonder the Legion is suffering from a shortage of new members?

If you'd like to see the offending poppy, go to http://www.cvfr.ca/ and look on the soldier's helmet.  Have a magnifying glass at the ready.



Shared in accordance with the usual caveats...

Original link

Legion tells biker vets: No poppy for you

By Scott Taylor, QMI Agency

OTTAWA — The iconic poem In Flanders Fields immortalized the poppy as a symbol of remembrance for Canadian soldiers since the First World War.

But it's also a registered trademark, owned and so closely guarded by the Royal Canadian Legion that a motorcycle club of veterans isn't allowed to include a small one in its own logo without lawyers threatening legal action.

Capt. Michael Blow, president of the Canadian Veteran Freedom Riders (CVFR), who devoted 35 years of his life to the military, has one in his club's crest. It's a little difficult to see, but it's there.

And the Legion doesn't like that one bit.

They had a law firm send a letter to Blow insisting he and his crew of more than 70 riders and veterans immediately remove the image of the poppy from their logo.

The letter says, in part:

"If we do not have a satisfactory reply within two weeks of the date of this letter, we shall recommend to the Legion that it commence immediate legal proceedings."

The CVFR sometimes raises funds for vets who need help. Blow thought they were all on the same side.

"I honestly don't know how an organization that continually spouts off about how they respect vets can legally hold a copyright on a symbol of remembrance," he said. "I wear the patch for support and honourary respect of veterans."

The poppy is certainly not the focal point of the crest, and he said it's modelled after the British version, but it's the principle that irks him the most.

"For the Legion to turn around and threaten me with litigation because I'm using the poppy is not morally right," he said.

Legion secretary Bill Maxwell agreed it might not sound fair, but there's a reason for the trademark.

"Normally, for personal or private logos, we don't authorize use of the poppy. The poppy trademark was registered in 1948 to ensure that it would never be used for commercial or personal gain or used inappropriately."

He added the image on any logo in the country would most probably not be approved for that reason.

"That's because it's not being used as a symbol of remembrance, but as part of a logo."

Blow scoffed at that.

"Remembrance is the only reason I'm using it," he said.

The legion is mostly a social club for people over 50, anyhow. Im aware they do charity work and whatnot on the national level, but most local legions, especially in rural canada, and especially in atlantic canada are just hangouts for the elderly

 

[Scott]

Is making completely unqualified posts a habit of yours?

 

[bossi]

Okay, team - we have one year to accomplish this task.
At present, Gary Buttman and the NHL won't let teams wear a poppy on their sweaters or helmets
(in contrast to the OHL where teams such as the Kitchener Rangers, Kingston Frontenacs and St Mike's Blues wear special commemorative sweaters which they then auction off for charity - the Rangers sweater in the Memorial Cup a few years back was simply awesome)

http://www.icethetics.info/blog/tag/kitchener-rangers
http://thechlproject.blogspot.com/2010_05_01_archive.html

So far, the only NHL "loophole" has been goalie masks (e.g. Phoenix Coyotes goalie Jason LaBarbera and his yellow ribbon, and Canadiens Cary Price's special Remembrance mask)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/09/phoenix-coyotes-goalie-ja_n_1001887.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18DxSEYO4Nc

P.S. (if the RCL objects to Canadian NHL teams wearing a poppy on their sweaters or helmets, they should ever so politely and respectfully be told the NHL teams wouldn't be doing it to sell tickets - they'd be doing it to honour our fallen ... and last time I checked, the NHL reaches far more households in North America than the RCL ...)

 

[OldSolduer]

Lets get this done troops.

Bettman made a poor decision, however the Winnipeg Jets had a minute of silence at their game last Thursday. The Montreal Alouettes had  the poppy on their field yesterday.

What's wrong with these people?

Do they not realize that maybe none of us would be playing any kind of sport if it had not been for the efforts of Canada, the UK and the Commonwealth, the USA and others hadn't goen to war with those who would oppress us?
Time for a wake up call, IMO.

 

[bossi]

Two more examples from junior hockey:

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Contact them @ http://www.nhl.com/ice/feedback.htm
Twitter is @nhl
Facebook (mobile version, sorry) http://m.facebook.com/NHL?_rdr

Have to do a bit more digging to find an address to write them at.

Edit: it might be 1251 Avenue Of The Americas, New York, NY 10020

 

[The Bread Guy]

FYI, here's who else weighed in on the European poppy issue:

Prince William has written to Fifa demanding it lifts the ban on England shirts being embroidered with poppies.

Fifa decrees that shirts should not carry political, religious or commercial messages.

But the Duke of Cambridge is "dismayed" by Fifa's stance in this case for Saturday's match against Spain.

Clarence House said: "The Duke's strong view is the poppy is a universal symbol of remembrance, which has no political, religious or commercial connotations."

In the letter Prince William, the president of the FA, demands Fifa makes "an exception in this special circumstance". The full contents of letter are being kept private ....

BBC Sports, 9 Nov 11

I wonder what kind of response a letter written to Canadian politicians on this one might garner?  Especially from, say, the Minister of State (Sport) or the Minister for Veterans Affairs?

 

[bossi]

Thanks to FlyingDutchman for the links!

Okay - just to start the fastball rolling ... I got this off my chest
(sent it to NHL "Corporate Marketing", since there wasn't a "NHL Poppy Petition" yet ...)

To:  NHL Corporate Marketing

Why won't you allow Canadian teams to wear a poppy for Remembrance Day?
It's not a political symbol - it's a universal symbol of remembrance for the solders who fought and died for our freedom today.

Most ironically of all, it was an American who first popularized the poppy (not sure why it dropped off in the US, as compared to Canada - just one of those things maybe)

FIFA made the mistake of trying to tell Britain they couldn't wear a poppy - how ironic is that?  We fought and liberated Europe, and then THEY turn around and say we can't remember?  Prince William stepped up to the plate in that discussion, as well as Prime Minster Cameron, but it shouldn't have reached that point - common sense should have intervened ...
("... FIFA had told the football teams of England, Wales and Scotland that they were forbidden to wear an embroidered poppy on their jerseys during their matches. FIFA's ruling upset war veterans, who called it "disgraceful". Prince William, Duke of Cambridge wrote a letter to FIFA demanding that the ban be overturned, stating that the poppy is not political symbol but a symbol of those who have died in war. FIFA has since overturned the ban for all three national teams, allowing them to wear a poppy on black armbands. ...")

If you want other examples, the Memorial Cup in Canada is perhaps the best example of how it works - team such as the Kitchener Rangers and Brandon Wheat Kings wear special commemorative sweaters, which they then auction off for charity.

NHL teams could do the same if they wish, but all I'm asking is that you allow our teams to wear a poppy out of respect for our fallen soldiers - that is NOT too much to ask.

Perhaps the definitive reference to the poppy can be found in the poem "In Flanders Fields".
(an excerpt of which is written on the walls of the Montreal Canadiens dressing room ...)

In Flanders fields the poppies grow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Flanders_Fields

If you don't believe me, please feel free to research the poppy as a symbol of remembrance - the Wikipedia is as good a place as any to start, and you'll find the Australian War Museum a treasure trove of information (ditto for Veterans' Affairs Canada, and of course the Royal Canadian Legion)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day

If you have any questions or wish to discuss this further, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you,
Mark Bossi, CD
(an Afghanistan veteran, who wears a poppy EVERY Remembrance Day ...)

"I'll wear a little poppy,
As red as red can be,
To show that I remember
Those who fought for me."

 

[OldSolduer]

Have we confirmed that Bettman said NO? We have to be careful - I'd like to see a link where he said no.

 

[bossi]

Have we confirmed that Bettman said NO? We have to be careful - I'd like to see a link where he said no.

I remember when the issue came up a few years back - haven't got a link at my fingertips.
The NHL simply side-stepped the issue by saying teams had to submit their requests for approval.
(and I've heard since then that the process takes months if the NHL wants to drag their feet, plus the NHL marketing braintrust now have their foot on the throat of franchises when it comes to "marketing" - you may have noticed smarmy NHL phrases appearing on EVERY rink in the NHL, a trend which began after their strike? - ditto for the NHL emblem at the throat of every team's sweaters ... how appropriate ... an NHL symbol at the throat of every player ... but ... I digress ...)

I'm absolutely certain the NHL ruled against at least one request to wear poppies.

We'll need to get the attention of the Canadian franchises, in order for them to submit the "proper" request through "proper" NHL chain of command ... (is there a Smiley for vomiting ...?)

It'd be nice to get Don Cherry onboard later on, once the ball is rolling  and accelerating ...

And, of course, we need fan support across Canada (wouldn't hurt to get some support from the US, too ... who knows? ... maybe we might be able to re-introduce the poppy to the Yanks?)

 

[The Bread Guy]

Have we confirmed that Bettman said NO? We have to be careful - I'd like to see a link where he said no.

Good question - I'd be happy to be corrected, but I've spent the better part of my lunch break Google-fu'ing, and found no open source primary or secondary reference along these lines.  In fact, the NHL itself suggests clubs can commemorate as they see fit - what the bit in yellow means exactly is not clear here (although I think it means wearing of poppy pins):

.... Remembrance Day was initially dedicated days before the one-year anniversary of the armistice signed to end the first World War on Nov. 11, 1918. Since then, the day has served as a reminder for those individuals who have put themselves in the line of fire in that conflict and all those since so we can enjoy as simple a pleasure as watching a hockey game.

To say that the sacrifices made by those who served in World War I, World War II and any global conflict after that makes a the game on the ice seem trivial is an understatement.

That sentiment is hardly lost on the players or the teams playing the game, and each year the NHL and its member clubs have made a conscious effort to pay respect and tribute to those who defend us. This year is no different, as clubs across the League are honoring veterans with various initiatives and ceremonies.

The most prominent dedication will be the wearing of poppies across the League. This annual tradition originates from the words of Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, a Canadian doctor serving in World War I who wrote the remarkable poem "In Flanders Fields" on May 3, 1915 in testament to the carnage of the Second Battle of Ypres in Belgium during World War I. It is widely believed that he wrote the poem after witnessing the death of his friend the day before ....

Here's what some teams have done with uniforms, according to the same source:

.... Anaheim: The Ducks are hosting a Military Appreciation Night on Friday, during which fans will get American flags. Players will wear camouflage jerseys during warm-ups and wrap sticks in camouflage tape.

Boston: The Bruins are hosting a Military Appreciation Night on Nov. 15 against New Jersey. The team will raffle off camouflage warm-up jerseys and camouflage-taped sticks in addition to honoring veterans throughout the game. The Bruins also recently visited the New England Center for Homeless Veterans.

Buffalo: The Sabres will honor members of the armed forces and veterans from all over Western New York as well as collect donations for the WNY Heroes Organization. The team will also be auctioning off camouflage warm-up jerseys for charity. Chris Kreiger, the founder of WNY, will receive the Purple Heart before the game. The team is also hosting on-ice hockey clinics for wounded veterans.

(....)

Chicago: The Blackhawks will wear camouflage warm-ups for the third straight year, which will later be auctioned off. The team will host an official enlistment ceremony for all branches of the armed forces during the first intermission.

NY Islanders: The Islanders held Military Appreciation Night on Nov. 5, during which the team wore camouflage warmups, honored veterans throughout the game and specifically recognized veterans who had received the Purple Heart.

(....)

San Jose: The Sharks wore camouflage warmups at the morning skate on Nov. 5 before their game against the Nashville Predators. The jerseys were autographed and are being sold via blind auction, with proceeds benefitting San Jose area-based military charities ....