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[PPCLI Guy]

I get ya.

I don't understand why. All it takes is an RO entry and some basic leadership.

So sometimes command is about theatre. It is the theatre of command that we never really emphasise enough. Gen Leslie was being consistent with the approach he had used for a very long time, and to some considerable effect. Remember this is the fella that started the Army Run...and the same one that ensured that Area Council always started with PT, for everyone in attendance, regardless of rank. He was not beasting the troops. He was calling out the so-called senior leaders between him and the troops. "RO Entries" may works on Cpls and Capts, but are less likely to do so for Sergeants Major and LCols...

 

[Halifax Tar]

So sometimes command is about theatre. It is the theatre of command that we never really emphasise enough. Gen Leslie was being consistent with the approach he had used for a very long time, and to some considerable effect. Remember this is the fella that started the Army Run...and the same one that ensured that Area Council always started with PT, for everyone in attendance, regardless of rank. He was not beasting the troops. He was calling out the so-called senior leaders between him and the troops. "RO Entries" may works on Cpls and Capts, but are less likely to do so for Sergeants Major and LCols...

ROs set the daily routine of the unit, and are orders. If LCol's and SgtMaj's won't follow their own orders then we have deeper routed problems than a lack of PT, and they should be removed from those positions.

All I am saying is make it part of the unit's daily routine and get on with it. It's not that complicated of a task.

 

[Furniture]

ROs set the daily routine of the unit, and are orders. If LCol's and SgtMaj's won't follow their own orders then we have deeper routed problems than a lack of PT, and they should be removed from those positions.

All I am saying is make it part of the unit's daily routine and get on with it. It's not that complicated of a task.

Until their are deliverables that need delivering, and half the unit is required at their desks because staffing shortages mean everybody has to do the work of other positions.

How many times have you seen PT scheduled into a FLEX in the same block as flying, and three other evolutions? It's the same for other units, it's just that other units tend to not have a convenient spreadsheet with everything written on it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Until their are deliverables that need delivering, and half the unit is required at their desks because staffing shortages mean everybody has to do the work of other positions.

How many times have you seen PT scheduled into a FLEX in the same block as flying, and three other evolutions? It's the same for other units, it's just that other units tend to not have a convenient spreadsheet with everything written on it.

Daily Routine at sea is not really able to accommodate unit PT. But alongside it's entirely doable and just needs some will power.

I was talking in the context of an Army HQ though.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Once the last straggler crossed the finish line, there'd be a few words, and a dismissal (with the Army Officers' Mess having a convenient waiver for PT strip that day).

You say straggler, I say 2IC making sure no one is left behind

 

[OldSolduer]

So sometimes command is about theatre. It is the theatre of command that we never really emphasise enough. Gen Leslie was being consistent with the approach he had used for a very long time, and to some considerable effect.

The best commanders I ever worked for were colorful and expressive and knew when to turn the theatre on and off.
And as a CSM and RSM I wasn't bad at it either.

 

[Lumber]

ROs set the daily routine of the unit, and are orders. If LCol's and SgtMaj's won't follow their own orders then we have deeper routed problems than a lack of PT, and they should be removed from those positions.

All I am saying is make it part of the unit's daily routine and get on with it. It's not that complicated of a task.

You guys have ROs?

 

[OldSolduer]

You guys have ROs?

One of my COs said the were orders - Not Routine suggestions....

 

[Remius]

The mess was optional.

But trying to build a culture of fitness is hard in a HQ. And better the boss saying "Th is for everyone" instead of playing favourites and having some folks never get the time.

Must have worked well anyways because of so many people that did their hour of “PT” on Friday afternoons…

 

[ueo]

There is no regulation that says you have to do it, but there is also no regulation preventing a CoC from ordering you to do it. Your best bet is to talk to your CoC and ask if they need exact dates, or if they need rough dates. Also, ask if there will be flexibility based on staffing needs, if they want exact dates.

I personally find the idea of planning dates for my leave a year in advance ridiculous, but there are people who want their year planned out in detail. Could just be that the boss is a detailed planner, and doesn't understand that not everybody else works that way in their personal life.

Cmon guys. civ industry does this all the time. Plant shut down for X weeks for retooling etc.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You guys have ROs?

We do now. After I brought it up that they hadn't been published since 2018 and then Div picked it up on a SIV.

People don't understand the value of ROs. Maybe it's because on ship we publish them every 14 days, but to me it's a valuable piece of information.

 

[Furniture]

Cmon guys. civ industry does this all the time. Plant shut down for X weeks for retooling etc.

The CAF doesn't face the same challenges, and vacation days/leave shouldn't be a race to the bottom to see who has it worse.

As I pointed out earlier, most industries have some form of incentive to deal with BS vacation policy, the CAF has generous leave policy to compensate for other BS policies.

 

[mariomike]

Judging by the " getting back in " super-threads, the grass isn't always greener on civvy street. Some may, or may not, miss the military culture.

 

[Lumber]

We do now. After I brought it up that they hadn't been published since 2018 and then Div picked it up on a SIV.

People don't understand the value of ROs. Maybe it's because on ship we publish them every 14 days, but to me it's a valuable piece of information.

We actually went a few months without ROs on my last ship and honestly people just totally forgot about them. Everyone was like "oh shit! right!" when we brought it up.

I personally don't see the utility in them. There's nothing in there that is actually "orders" as everything is covered by SSOs, CSOs, the Flex, and you know, actual orders issued by Command to the HODs and distributed downward. Duty watches were distributed separately from ROs. The only thing that seems to ever be in ROs was "Security Corner!", "Padre's Corner!", etc. I.e. (not orders)

 

[Halifax Tar]

We actually went a few months without ROs on my last ship and honestly people just totally forgot about them. Everyone was like "oh shit! right!" when we brought it up.

I personally don't see the utility in them. There's nothing in there that is actually "orders" as everything is covered by SSOs, CSOs, the Flex, and you know, actual orders issued by Command to the HODs and distributed downward. Duty watches were distributed separately from ROs. The only thing that seems to ever be in ROs was "Security Corner!", "Padre's Corner!", etc. I.e. (not orders)

DAOD 1000-2 states:

COs of all Regular Force and Primary Reserve units shall publish ROs.

The frequency of publication is at the CO's discretion.

Form and Content

The following table provides guidelines for the production of ROs.

Part	Standard
Headings	Each RO must be identified by: the title; location of the issuing unit; a sequential RO number; and the date of issue.
Table of Contents	Each RO must have a table of contents.
Items	Items for inclusion must be grouped into four parts: Part 1 - Duties and Appointments; Part 2 - Current Items; Part 3 - Periodic Items; and Part 4 - General Interest and Social Events.
References	Items must be identified with the: issuing authority; and current effective date.
Signature	ROs must be signed by or on behalf of the CO.

I'm not surprised you don't see the utility behind them. Setting the daily and upcoming routine lays the groundwork for unit discipline.

 

[OldSolduer]

SHALL being the operative word here. THAT means you damn well do it.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If we didn't have all these bullshit special and short days during christmas break, we wouldn't run into issues with people having 10+ days of annual left into the new year. I shouldn't have to police peoples leave and force them to take time off. That's insanity. You either use them, or lose them. Period. When people can't take 20+ days off during the year (operations aside), that tells me we get too much leave.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

100%
I had my summer leave fucked with 3 years in a row. My Family went on our planned and booked vacation 2 our of 3 of those times without me.
Endstate for people like me is to get ordered on leave while my wife is working and kids are in school. I've seen it up to the rank of major where they burn annual leave by taking Fridays off, but are still pressured to go to work anyways.

Anyone who tries to put themselves and their family first is treated like a pariah.

That’s really shitty. I can’t understand why this still happens outside of op deployments.

 

[Halifax Tar]

100%
I had my summer leave fucked with 3 years in a row. My Family went on our planned and booked vacation 2 our of 3 of those times without me.
Endstate for people like me is to get ordered on leave while my wife is working and kids are in school. I've seen it up to the rank of major where they burn annual leave by taking Fridays off, but are still pressured to go to work anyways.

Anyone who tries to put themselves and their family first is treated like a pariah.

Very sorry my man. We should be better than that.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I want people to manage their leave so over half the unit isn't gone in the last two weeks of March. Only using 3-4 days of annual for two weeks off during Christmas is insanity and doesn't happen anywhere else in the civilian world.

Important point on that is, that is when many schools have march break at least in the Atlantic provinces. Parents shouldn’t be able to take leave when their kids are off? Seriously?

Don't even get me started with the "burning leave" phrase. People sound like spoiled, entitled little shits when they say that. You poor fella needs to be forced on leave, give me a break. People on civy street would kill for the amount of leave we get and some people have the audacity to complain.

Jesus man. I’m glad I don’t work for you, and if this is the way you operate, be glad you don’t work for me. Seriously; you wouldn’t enjoy your informal PD very much.