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Toffee95
Guest
Does anyone know much about becoming a military lawyer? Does the CF help with fees, etc...?
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 430
There doesn‘t seem to be any info on the the Recruiting website right now about Legal Officers‘ recruitment or training. You best bet is to visit or contact your nearest Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre for information. There is one JAG officer participating on the board who may be able to provide specific advice.
Find a Recruiter
Find a Recruiter
T
Toffee95
Guest
Yeah... not exactly "fit" right now, don‘t want to be laughed out of the office. I had hoped to wait till I looked the part before I visit a centre.
Hey, I‘m only a civilian but I looked into this and had heard that because of the military needing only a limited number of lawyers that you have to get your education independly and then apply to the military. I‘m planning on writing my L-SAT at the end of next year.
I heard the same deal for MP.
I heard the same deal for MP.
B
brneil
Guest
I entered after practicing for a number of years. The prototypical JAG officer enters after law school and theri year of articling. The only people I have heard of that had assistance in obtaining their law degree were already serving members of the CF.
The JAG has a website with info
http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/main_e.asp
Feel free to ask me specific info if you want
The JAG has a website with info
http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/main_e.asp
Feel free to ask me specific info if you want
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 430
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
After thinking things over a bit, I've decided to at least write my LSAT's this year. Most law schools like their applicants early.
Not sold on the idea of Law School yet, I'm in the various Pre-Law societys and classes but always looking for anecdotes and advice to help me decide.
Writing the lsat doesn't preclude actually going to law school, and there are other things I'm certain I'd like to do after my undergrad so I'm kind of on a fence right now...except that fence has about 5 different fences intersecting it at one point...the point inserted in my...well you get the idea.
Anyone with law school experience, chime in. Doesn't need to be related to the military at all, but relating some personal experiences about it, what you did afterwards, what you thought of the whole experience, would be great.
Not sold on the idea of Law School yet, I'm in the various Pre-Law societys and classes but always looking for anecdotes and advice to help me decide.
Writing the lsat doesn't preclude actually going to law school, and there are other things I'm certain I'd like to do after my undergrad so I'm kind of on a fence right now...except that fence has about 5 different fences intersecting it at one point...the point inserted in my...well you get the idea.
Anyone with law school experience, chime in. Doesn't need to be related to the military at all, but relating some personal experiences about it, what you did afterwards, what you thought of the whole experience, would be great.
- Reaction score
- 1,726
- Points
- 1,160
There were several CF officers at my law school, they were all Captains. I believe they had to give some sort of commitment to remain for an extended period of time in the CF after law school, in order to recoup the investment. [law school is very expensive in Ontario]. The JAG does not participate in the articling process, therefore the onus was placed on the members to find their own civvie articling positions. They were not permitted to article with DND/DOJ civvie lawyers- therefore membership in the CF extends no advantage whatsoever WRT applying for Crown articling positions. In fact it may be detrimental, basically because the way government practices law has become very politicized [i.e. PC], that there is little room for military values in that system. Nonetheless, I know for sure some strings were pulled to get a position for one Cpt. who failed to impress any civvie organizations. He articled in the crim div. of a provincial CA's office.
The hardest part about law school is staying awake through all the Lord Denning crap. You really don't learn anything useful there, remember it's a "law school", not a lawyer school. Personally, if I had to do it again, I would do a combined degree in engineering and law, or a combined LLB/MBA. You'll make more money when you start, but after a few years the litigator's blow everyone away anyway.
Getting into Law School:
If you have a degree, and an average LSAT score then your dad better be a judge, 'cause you'll need a more compelling reason to get in. It is a closed profession, and with the exception of employment equity admissions, nobody gets a free pass.
Military service counts for squat - the profession generally doesn't even know what that means.
Volunteering at Michael Moore rallies or gay rights advocay conventions would be considered a plus for most law schools - i.e. Osgoode ["wasgood"] or Queen's. UWO is about as far right as you can go in Canada - mostly a business law school with business related area's of concentration such as Tax etc.
Things to remember about practicing law:
The employment standards act does not apply to lawyers, therefore no holiday pay, no overtime pay and things like that; [except maternity leave, I think.]
Lawyers cannot belong to unions;
Lawyers are targets for people who whine a lot - then they sue you for letting them whine to much.
Government lawyers get to keep their jobs when they lose and still get paid - just look at all the Charter cases they lose.
When private practice lawyers lose - they don't get paid. They lose twice in a row - they are folding clothes at The Gap.
Partners generally have to arrange for their own pensions, and individual health benefits, although a growing number of firms are providing group benefits to all firm members. This is important, because nearly all human rights laws in Canada permit insurance companies to refuse health coverage to disabled people or even those who are frequently ill. Lawyers generally cannot take advantage of government benefits available to most citizens, as those benefits are means tested.
Best place to be: in house counsel or partner in a multi discipline firm like an IP or tech firm. [big $$]
Occupational Hazards
It is indeed a cruel form of torture to listen to an opponent's closing argument that lasts 4 days when your own is about 45 minutes long. Issues- law - facts - argument - say thanks and get going. Nobody likes their time wasted, especially judges.
Smart lawyers have unlisted home phone numbers so they can spend more time on Army.ca!!
The hardest part about law school is staying awake through all the Lord Denning crap. You really don't learn anything useful there, remember it's a "law school", not a lawyer school. Personally, if I had to do it again, I would do a combined degree in engineering and law, or a combined LLB/MBA. You'll make more money when you start, but after a few years the litigator's blow everyone away anyway.
Getting into Law School:
If you have a degree, and an average LSAT score then your dad better be a judge, 'cause you'll need a more compelling reason to get in. It is a closed profession, and with the exception of employment equity admissions, nobody gets a free pass.
Military service counts for squat - the profession generally doesn't even know what that means.
Volunteering at Michael Moore rallies or gay rights advocay conventions would be considered a plus for most law schools - i.e. Osgoode ["wasgood"] or Queen's. UWO is about as far right as you can go in Canada - mostly a business law school with business related area's of concentration such as Tax etc.
Things to remember about practicing law:
The employment standards act does not apply to lawyers, therefore no holiday pay, no overtime pay and things like that; [except maternity leave, I think.]
Lawyers cannot belong to unions;
Lawyers are targets for people who whine a lot - then they sue you for letting them whine to much.
Government lawyers get to keep their jobs when they lose and still get paid - just look at all the Charter cases they lose.
When private practice lawyers lose - they don't get paid. They lose twice in a row - they are folding clothes at The Gap.
Partners generally have to arrange for their own pensions, and individual health benefits, although a growing number of firms are providing group benefits to all firm members. This is important, because nearly all human rights laws in Canada permit insurance companies to refuse health coverage to disabled people or even those who are frequently ill. Lawyers generally cannot take advantage of government benefits available to most citizens, as those benefits are means tested.
Best place to be: in house counsel or partner in a multi discipline firm like an IP or tech firm. [big $$]
Occupational Hazards
It is indeed a cruel form of torture to listen to an opponent's closing argument that lasts 4 days when your own is about 45 minutes long. Issues- law - facts - argument - say thanks and get going. Nobody likes their time wasted, especially judges.
Smart lawyers have unlisted home phone numbers so they can spend more time on Army.ca!!
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
err...and if he is? j/k He actually is, but he'd try and keep me out rather then help me in. My LSAT scores are something that remains to be seen, I will be prepared as possible for them I can tell you that much. Following in dads footsteps is not easy either, his LSATS were in the top 1% in North America and he graduated school with more awards and A+'s then most did. He was about 43 when he retired from the navy, which I expect had aided his self-discipline and work ethic. It is a route I am certainly considering, but I've got to keep all the doors open so-to-speak, so we'll see.
So your saying in a roundabout way that extracarriculars definetly do count for something?
Ie; Community service through something like a fraternity would be a good thing?
The practice things I was familiar with. Dad rants...must be a navy/lawyer thing because he did that long before he went to Law school.
I've also been trying to get around the idea that someone with a llb must practice law. Have you heard of other routes people have taken?
The money if I can say this without sounding like a dink..is not a large factor. IE; I'm not going to be particularly concerned with making loads of cash and paying off my student loans in the first few years out.
- Reaction score
- 1,726
- Points
- 1,160
Che: i am a tad sarcastic on the profession from time to time. Actually, most of the time.
High LSAT's will certainly help. The big question is always this: "Why Law?" There are limited spots available for a seemingly unlimited number of applicants. As far as going in as a mature student like your dad .. well, that's becoming more common, thank goodness.
High grades in law school ... well, the jury is out on that one, unless your immediate post law school goal is to do articles of clerkship for a judge. The saying "Pay your fee- get your B" has a lot of merit.
Almost every law student has demonstrated self discipline and work ethic by completing thier u/g or M/A in the top 3-4 %, as far as law schools are concerned. Stay in the forces, it won't hinder or help, but you will at least belong to a better club.
Extra-curriculars help with law school admissions as much as LSAT, if not more. A demonstrated propensity to engage in live issues by making meaningful contributions is a rarity amongst the university crowd .. it is what sets law students apart from law school applicants. Fraternity's are something that I can honestly say that I don't ever recall being mentioned as a factor. A union card, on the other hand, could be a big plus.
All an LLB does is gets you into articling, but I know of a couple of law school grads who took the degree and did other things, like journalism, government policy advisor etc. In Ontario, I believe you must article within 10 years of finishing law school, but i must confess I'm not too sure about that anymore.
As far as money goes, well, that comes with time unless you're on Bay Street where you start very high on the scale... not a good idea if you want a life. It's a balance which too many young lawyers fail to swing in their direction, and they pay a price in precious years lost thereafter. How much does one need to have a comfortable life and reach self actualization- that should be the primary factor. [of course, that's when your kid comes home and tells you she wants to go to medical school, and you hope for a good car wreck file the next day in order to pay for it ... brutal, isn't it?]
Cheers ...
High LSAT's will certainly help. The big question is always this: "Why Law?" There are limited spots available for a seemingly unlimited number of applicants. As far as going in as a mature student like your dad .. well, that's becoming more common, thank goodness.
High grades in law school ... well, the jury is out on that one, unless your immediate post law school goal is to do articles of clerkship for a judge. The saying "Pay your fee- get your B" has a lot of merit.
Almost every law student has demonstrated self discipline and work ethic by completing thier u/g or M/A in the top 3-4 %, as far as law schools are concerned. Stay in the forces, it won't hinder or help, but you will at least belong to a better club.
Extra-curriculars help with law school admissions as much as LSAT, if not more. A demonstrated propensity to engage in live issues by making meaningful contributions is a rarity amongst the university crowd .. it is what sets law students apart from law school applicants. Fraternity's are something that I can honestly say that I don't ever recall being mentioned as a factor. A union card, on the other hand, could be a big plus.
All an LLB does is gets you into articling, but I know of a couple of law school grads who took the degree and did other things, like journalism, government policy advisor etc. In Ontario, I believe you must article within 10 years of finishing law school, but i must confess I'm not too sure about that anymore.
As far as money goes, well, that comes with time unless you're on Bay Street where you start very high on the scale... not a good idea if you want a life. It's a balance which too many young lawyers fail to swing in their direction, and they pay a price in precious years lost thereafter. How much does one need to have a comfortable life and reach self actualization- that should be the primary factor. [of course, that's when your kid comes home and tells you she wants to go to medical school, and you hope for a good car wreck file the next day in order to pay for it ... brutal, isn't it?]
Cheers ...
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
I think for a lot of people:
THAT is sadly the answer.
Suffice to say I've got my reasons and they're good ones, but I see your angle.
whiskey 601 said:
I only mentioned fraternities as the modern frat has become a method for many to step into community service and give them chances to be put into positions of leadership etc...oh and to funnel beer and meet women, but that is actually a thing of the past at Dalhousie as they've passed the alcohol free campus act..well I wont bore you.
I am a student union member...I think we all are (We pay the bloody fees anyway)
Well I will update from time to time, getting advice is always helpful. Especially when it's not biased as you haven't got a stake in it like dad does.
Cheers.
C
caroline65
Guest
Hi...I found two websites for you to check out....
http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/main_e.asp
http://recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/home/jobs_e.aspx
Goodluck
http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/main_e.asp
http://recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/home/jobs_e.aspx
Goodluck
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
whiskey 601 said:
Uhmm... having all of those degrees, I can say you don't get paid anymore. In fact as an artcling student, I doubt the law firms even look at that. Where I articled, they were involved in a large case dealing with engineering issues. The lead counsel was surprised to hear that I was an engineer, a year after the fact.
