Kit Retention (Lack of it!!!) Upon Departing Saint Jean

[Klc]

Although those not yet BMQ qualified are only entitled to the IECS (olive drab gortex), but absolutely none should still be in OG107 olive drab combat jackets anymore.

I know that many of us students at CFSCE in Kingston still have the old combat jackets - although when they have the ICES in stock they are happy to replace at QM.
Then again, we (regf students in training) don't really need anything better then the old jacket. Let the kit go to someone who needs it. (Now why they took my combat gloves from me when I left St. Jean last spring, still boggles my mind )

 

[DirtyDog]

(Now why they took my combat gloves from me when I left St. Jean last spring, still boggles my mind )

When we left St. Jean for Meaford in the middle of Feburary, they took both our toques and gloves.  Marching for the few days was a painful experience until we drew another set from stores.  My ears burn just thinking about it. ;D

They  you keep some of the more ridiculous stuff, yet take your toques and gloves in the middle of winter.

 

[armyvern]

Then again, we (regf students in training) don't really need anything better then the old jacket. Let the kit go to someone who needs it. (Now why they took my combat gloves from me when I left St. Jean last spring, still boggles my mind )

The fact that Saint Jean wastes time taking back Land Op kit from Land Force personnel when they leave there is one of my biggest complaints. Those pers then end up here -- going immediately into the field on further career training -- and have to come through us to get re-issued every single damned thing that Saint Jean took away from them!! That makes sense now doesn't it? Take away the Army kit from the graduated recruits if you want, but at least allow the Land Force recruits retain it -- after all, they are then coming here to the "Home of the Army" to get trained.

The PYs wasted on THAT crap is ridiculous. The official reasoning is that they NEED the kit for the recruits, so they MUST keep it there.

My answer to that is "Well, the candidates here also NEED that kit, so because you are keeping it THERE, I have to IOR it so that they can go into the field here. And, I'll tell you this much -- it's a hell of a lot cheaper to resupply Saint Jean on an IOR basis from that big 25CFSD Montreal sitting right beside it than it is to resupply ME from that same 25CFSD just as often!!"

That being said ... it's a problem that is having a HUGE impact on career training in this location (that can be easily corrected by having Land Force pers retain their Army kit upon departure from saint Jean -- and re-supplying Saint Jean instead -- a mere hour up the road vice a day), and is being officially addressed by this location right now. Boy, the historical data on IORs, costs, PYs, the costs of making a soldier return kit only to have it re-issued a couple days later at another base ... everything ... is being put on paper. Heck, I even know how much it's costing to have those drivers make the repeated TD runs to Gagetown from the depot ... vice "it's all in a days work" runs to saint Jean.  

Where the hell is that fiscal management award?? That's twice in one week damnit!!  >

 

[Klc]

AH!  Well, you see, CFSCE was mostly "Air" until this past summer when it was designated as a "Land" 'institution'.    ;D

Perhaps therein lies the rub.  :-\

This past summer? I guess it was mostly an administrative thing, as the only change of command I remember was the school chief.

Either way, it's St. Jean and Borden that are giving us the old stuff (And I say again, we don't need anything newer... we're students. Besides, I appreciate my shiny "new" OD ICES that much more having worn the jean jacket a little while.)

Yeah, I'll take this to PM rather then bogging the thread down, but was it hard to get kit on arriving at meaford? I have (or rather don't have) a whole pile of missing stuff, and I'm wondering if I should try and get what I can at Borden before heading down. I'll be finally headed up there for SQ in January.....

 

[armyvern]

When we left St. Jean for Meaford in the middle of Feburary, they took both our toques and gloves.  Marching for the few days was a painful experience until we drew another set from stores.  My ears burn just thinking about it. ;D

A couple of February's ago, I received a call at home on a Saturday night from an instructor at one of the schools whose candidates had begun showing up from Saint Jean Friday night. Their career course was slated to begin on Monday -- straight out to the field. Saint Jean had not even allowed them to retain their friggin' jackets let alone their gloves!! I was furious as you can well imagine. It was -26 that day. What utter bullshit that is. I called up a few of my staff on the phone & made arrangements with the instructor to open up clothing Sunday evening once all his candidates were on ground so that we could issue them the winter kit they should never have had taken away from them in the first place. Unfreakinbelieveable.

Things like this should NEVER be allowed to happen -- and, hopefully, this latest round of facts, figures & budget numbers gets it FIXED once and for all.

 

[Klc]

Hate to continue the treadjack but I just remembered (what I thought was) the most ridiculous thing leaving St Jean -- I kept my mukluks, but they took the duffel socks(inserts)! WTH??!  ;D

 

[armyvern]

Hate to continue the treadjack but I just remembered (what I thought was) the most ridiculous thing leaving St Jean -- I kept my mukluks, but they took the duffel socks(inserts)! WTH??!  ;D

No highjack required!!

I have witchly powers that allow me to split it off!!  >

 

[DirtyDog]

Things like this should NEVER be allowed to happen -- and, hopefully, this latest round of facts, figures & budget numbers gets it FIXED once and for all.

I agree.  That was one of my first exposures to some of the more "perplexing" aspects of the CF.  Glad to hear something's being done about it (or atleast attempted).

 

[camochick]

I just left St Jean and they took my awesome cadpat rain gear (the airforce got to keep the rain gear WTF, i loved my rain gear especially in rainy old farnham), my combat gloves, my helmet, and assorted other kit but yet they made me keep my old timey webbing (with no mag pouches) even though I will be issued a tac vest in SQ. I don't get it!

 

[DirtyDog]

Recruits in St-Jean are getting CADPAT rain gear?

 

[camochick]

Yeah and the new recruits are getting tac vests now too instead of webbing!!

 

[GK .Dundas]

A couple of February's ago, I received a call at home on a Saturday night from an instructor at one of the schools whose candidates had begun showing up from Saint Jean Friday night. Their career course was slated to begin on Monday -- straight out to the field. Saint Jean had not even allowed them to retain their friggin' jackets let alone their gloves!! I was furious as you can well imagine. It was -26 that day. What utter bullshit that is. I called up a few of my staff on the phone & made arrangements with the instructor to open up clothing Sunday evening once all his candidates were on ground so that we could issue them the winter kit they should never have had taken away from them in the first place. Unfreakinbelieveable.

Things like this should NEVER be allowed to happen -- and, hopefully, this latest round of facts, figures & budget numbers gets it FIXED once and for all.

You rock Vern!
It's supposed to be the first ,the mission ,then the troops, stripping your troops of clothing  because theres less paperwork involved (And I suspect this may be part of it,or  but we 've always done it this way. )then requisitioning  new stuff  because someone is too ******* lazy to do it shouldn't even be on the list

 

[Klc]

Yeah and the new recruits are getting tac vests now too instead of webbing!!

I nearly puked when I saw that when I was leaving -- as of early spring, the new courses coming in were getting tacvests and cadpat raingear...

How are they supposed to realize how much better new kit is when they never touch the old stuff.... We were 'slightly miffed' to say the least.... Where is the "fun" of making a 'platoon standard' way to pile each persons webbing in ranks at the side of the parade square in HD-4?!  ;D

 

[xmarcx]

When I finished up BOTP I like everyone else had to return a whole bunch of kit, despite being posted to the language school at the same base for another 8 months. Now we're a week or so away from heading out to Gagetown and a few young subbies have attempted to get their hands on some basic kit like gloves or thermal underwear or even socks. Well one of my buddies got just about the best possible response yesterday, when he was told, and I quote "We can't give you any kit, because you aren't a real person yet. When you leave here and go to your next base and do your training, then you'll be a real person and you can have some kit."

So, while I recognize that it would be much cheaper just to issue kit or even let soldiers keep it on their way out the door,  I'm really starting to appreciate the logic in operation here at St-Jean. They have plenty of kit, and they are located practically next door to the source of all this kit, but it would be completely irresponsible to entrust any of that kit to fake people.

 

[armyvern]

I just left St Jean and they took my awesome cadpat rain gear (the airforce got to keep the rain gear WTF, i loved my rain gear especially in rainy old farnham), my combat gloves, my helmet, and assorted other kit but yet they made me keep my old timey webbing (with no mag pouches) even though I will be issued a tac vest in SQ. I don't get it!

That's because the cadpat raingear belongs to the Air Force. It's an Air Force item of kit -- is only now just beginning to be rolled out to the Army. Field soldiers first -- as it should be.

You'll get the TV on a temp loan only for your SQ course. You may end up posted to a base where there is NO entitlement to a Tac Vest -- ergo your retention of the webbing. You are Army DEU, but you are a support trade so there is no guaranteed entitlement to the TV,; it depends upon what Unit you end up posted to. If you end up posted to a base and a Unit that is entitled to the TV, you'll then exchange your webbing for the TV at that Unit's supporting clothing stores.

 

[Klc]

"We can't give you any kit, because you aren't a real person yet. When you leave here and go to your next base and do your training, then you'll be a real person and you can have some kit."

Same reason we sewed our nametags onto kit rather then writing it on... Something along the lines of "We know your either going to fail or VR anyway - so better to leave the kit for the REAL soldier who will take your place."  ;D

 

[DirtyDog]

Yeah and the new recruits are getting tac vests now too instead of webbing!!

That doesn't bother me so much as I have one of those.

CADPAT rain gear however.....

 

[DirtyDog]

That's because the cadpat raingear belongs to the Air Force. It's an Air Force item of kit --

This isn't meant as a slight to the Air Force, but what was the reasoning for them recieving the kit first?  I realise I don't fully understand all the operational conditions of the Air Force, but what am I'm missing here?

 

[armyvern]

When I finished up BOTP I like everyone else had to return a whole bunch of kit, despite being posted to the language school at the same base for another 8 months. Now we're a week or so away from heading out to Gagetown and a few young subbies have attempted to get their hands on some basic kit like gloves or thermal underwear or even socks. Well one of my buddies got just about the best possible response yesterday, when he was told, and I quote "We can't give you any kit, because you aren't a real person yet. When you leave here and go to your next base and do your training, then you'll be a real person and you can have some kit."

So, while I recognize that it would be much cheaper just to issue kit or even let soldiers keep it on their way out the door,  I'm really starting to appreciate the logic in operation here at St-Jean. They have plenty of kit, and they are located practically next door to the source of all this kit, but it would be completely irresponsible to entrust any of that kit to fake people.

Is that what was actually said -- or is that his translation of it?

Officially "you are not entitled to it until you have sucessfully completed Phase IV etc" (depends which kit we're talking).

And no, the base you are departing won't issue you any field kit ... your whole course will go through clothing stores here and will be issued the entire D01301 Land Field Ops scale of clothing, where you'll get IECS instead of ICE as per the entitlement, along with everything else you'll need out there in the woods.

Gagetown is the location that handles the initial issues of that scale to Army Course candidiates (unless they do a battle school etc somewhere else).

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Must be an RCR thing.  Our entire BN has it regardless of tour etc (seeing as you use Arid Gortex oversea's anyway).