Kemosabe?

[Pte. Bloggins]

I find it offensive that you are offended.......

All this talk about people being offended is offending me. See you all in court, *******!   ;D

 

[aesop081]

All this talk about people being offended is offending me. See you all in court, *******!   ;D

So basicaly you are offended that i am offended that they are offended ?

Ouch...gonna take a while to straighten all this out !      ;D

But to get back on what started al this.   A few years ago i was sentenced to take the harassement advisior course and it was unreal.   The cases that the instructors were talking to us about were just plain stupid.   Harassement rules now are just another example of the pendulum swinging to the oposite extreme.

 

[jmacleod]

The "Halifax Couple Story" is available by researching the Halifax Chronicle Herald and the Halifax
Daily News. It briefly, is a story of the Nova Scotia bureaucracy responsible for child welfare going
out of control - ill trained Social Workers, over reacting to a complaint by a Halifax doctor, who admits
(today) that she "regrets what was caused by her uninformed complaint" - the couple were told to
hand over their baby to Social Workers, and the mother of the child refused. The father then proceeded
along with his mother to overreact, featuring a loaded firearm in his activity.I know I will hear about
my next comment, but Nova Scotia, circa 2005, is the closest political entity to Dogpatch in North
America - many. many problems, with electrical power distribution,job creation, political patronage
control of certain media by outside interests, a Journalism School at the same level as a Grade 10
high school, and on and on. I do not think that all members of the RCN serving there are overly
happy (but I may be in error) Regards, MacLeod

 

[winchable]

The anecdotes of the Halifax couple story are especially interesting.


1)The husband claims to have trained with a group of mercenaries in Commando tactics while on a hockey trip to amsterdam
2)Both the Husband and Wife are convinced they are at the center of a vast conspiracy whereby the "system" is out to get them.
3)The husband, representing himself, proceeded to cross examin himself....

There's more,
My father works at the law courts (can't say which position exactly as that would be a dead giveaway) and apparently he get's a cold chill every time she and her supporters walk by (she has a fanbase)

As for Nova Scotia, I agree we certainly do have an unusual number of problems considering the opportunity we have with regards to business, tourism and natural resources.

Just out of curiosity which journalism school is that? I was in classes with many of the Journalism students from King's College and they were swamped with work and assignments as far as I know, anything but grade 10.

 

[jmacleod]

Most of the King's College Journalism students would be learning to read without moving their
lips. Talk to real Journalists like Harry "The Hat" Flemming, Lydon Watkins, David Bently, Douglas
Harkness, and they will tell you what they think about Professor Kimber's Journalism school. If
the father mentioned "gets a cold chill" when an accused appears in court he is in the wrong
racket - in Nova Scotia, Provincial Court jobs are in fact, patronage jobs for the (whatever party)
faithful. The couple problem could have been avoided by the use of common sense. MacLeod

 

[mover1]

Beach Bum you wouldn't like the members across the tarmac. they are greasy and covered in sweat. Some are experts in confined spaces while others like hang out in cockpits. 

 

[1feral1]

What about the word 'angawa' from Tarzan. I thought kemosabe simply meant 'friend' the same as angawa. Anyways quite frankly I am sick and tired of thsi PC world, and as the the woman who complained, I sense she's looking for $$$ and thats all. Shame on her.

Back in the 80's a Native in Regina complained after she watched the Flintstones and the word 'savage' was used. CKCK TV then promised never to air that episode again.

Pretty sad.


Wes

 

[Trinity]

The anecdotes of the Halifax couple story are especially interesting.


1)The husband claims to have trained with a group of mercenaries in Commando tactics while on a hockey trip to amsterdam
2)Both the Husband and Wife are convinced they are at the center of a vast conspiracy whereby the "system" is out to get them.
3)The husband, representing himself, proceeded to cross examin himself....

There's more,
My father works at the law courts (can't say which position exactly as that would be a dead giveaway) and apparently he get's a cold chill every time she and her supporters walk by (she has a fanbase)

well....

People may be gold diggers and money.. grabbers say it politely..

But they could also just be mentally ill.  And if thats the case, is it really fair
to judge and condemn people who are sick like this?  They really think they
are at the centre of a conspiracy.  The system gets abused, yet... but we need
to have it in order to make sure the legitimate claims are handled. That means
that these people, sick as they may be, have the right to use the system to
their own needs.

Being called friend.. shouldn't make anyone offended.

However, the use of racial slurs, even if it seems acceptable
such as 'N' (i wont' use that word), even if amongst a group of
black teens or in music by people is wrong.  WHY?  Because even
if they don't use it with a negative connotation, others will read one
into, or worse..  as it has happened to me, the word sneaks into my
vocabulary if I hear it enough.  How scary is that!!!  I am the most
non racist, happy loving person... but we can polute our minds with
this crap.

There is no such things as a Legit racial slur.  Even if I'm a white
guy calling myself a honkey, cracker or other insult.  It encourages,
even if sub consciously, negativity and seperation of the races.

/rant off

/joke on
I'm offended that more people aren't offended

 

[winchable]

But they could also just be mentally ill. 

The judge declared them fit to stand trial and represent themselves..so legally they're fine.

The 'system' being out to get them is something I would legitmately like to look into, the scary thing about beauracracies is you run the risk of awful things happening because a number of different people do seemingly innocuous things, so I'd like to hear their case on that point but I think representing themselves is an awful mistake and will do nothing to help their case.(If anyone's seen the movie "cube" I have visions of that occuring)

I don't agree with the decision that they are fit to stand trial, I've talked about it at length with my father and he also questions the decision that they are mentally fit to stand trial having observed their behaivour around the court. (He is not the judge on this case I will say before anyone gets in trouble)

I'm not neccessarily condeming them at all, it's not a money matter either so I couldn't label them money grabbers, they want their child back and I respect that but I think the whole trial is clogging up the system when it could have been dealt with properly had they chosen not to defend themselves or if the judge had done the right thing and had them examined more closely...psychologically...I actually feel bad talking about the whole thing but I've been thinking about it too much.

 

[jmacleod]

We were focused on the word "kemosabe". The Lone Ranger site published an article from the
Saturday Evening Post on author Fran Striker where he defines where he found the basis for the
word he created. Fran Striker was a well known author in Halifax NS circa 1940's - his numerous
books were on the same racks with comic books of the era (Superman, Captain Marvel, Prince
Valiant, etc.) Striker when you think about it, had to have a word of affection and fellowship for
Tonto, (the faithful Indian companion) to communicate with the Masked Man, he could hardly start the
morning off with "good morning Masked Man, or Mr. Ranger, or, perish the thought, "boss". So the
word is innocuous, lacking in any kind of malice or racial overtones, created by one of the great
narrative writers of our time. I have often felt that Author Elmore Leonard is very familier with the
works of Fran Striker. The complaint about the use of the word should never have been heard by
the NS Human Rights Commission, who should have had sense enough to research it. The
situation was accelerated by sloppy journalism published in the Halifax Daily News, plus the fact that
the NS Human Rights Commission is excessively focused on racial problems for reasons best known
to themselves, and have not yet met the full criteria of their mandate. This matter should, based
on the ruling of the Supreme Court of Canada, vanish. MacLeod

 

[paracowboy]

There is no such things as a Legit racial slur.   Even if I'm a white
guy calling myself a honkey, cracker or other insult.   It encourages,
even if sub consciously, negativity and seperation of the races.

I gotta call "bollocks" on this one. My two best friends and I call each other every racist slur in several different languages. One's white, one's black (well, actually, he's more the colour of a cup of cocoa), and I'm a 'breed. I love those guys, and would cheerfully die for them. We've eaten at each other's homes, and hung out with each other's families. There's no racial seperation, or negativity.
People read too much into these things. You'll never hear as much racist humour anywhere as you will in an infantry section with more than one 'race' being represented. Why? Because there's no racism involved in it! Only in an infantry section will you see true egalitarianism. Don't matter where you came from, it's what you do NOW that counts. Race, religion, background, and hot-looking female family members are just grist for the humour mill.

 

[Trinity]

I gotta call "bollocks" on this one. My two best friends and I call each other every racist slur in several different languages. One's white, one's black (well, actually, he's more the colour of a cup of cocoa), and I'm a 'breed. I love those guys, and would cheerfully die for them. We've eaten at each other's homes, and hung out with each other's families. There's no racial seperation, or negativity.
People read too much into these things. You'll never hear as much racist humour anywhere as you will in an infantry section with more than one 'race' being represented. Why? Because there's no racism involved in it! Only in an infantry section will you see true egalitarianism. Don't matter where you came from, it's what you do NOW that counts. Race, religion, background, and hot-looking female family members are just grist for the humour mill.

Of course not... there is no seperation between them..

Its the people who are around who don't know them.... and see things like this happen.
We can't say that they will understand that type of joking, nor will they accept it on the
same level as it is intended.  They are the ones who may be and have been negatively
affected by this...

 

[paracowboy]

Of course not... there is no seperation between them..

Its the people who are around who don't know them.... and see things like this happen.
We can't say that they will understand that type of joking, nor will they accept it on the
same level as it is intended.   They are the ones who may be and have been negatively
affected by this...

and the more of an issue we make it out to be, the more negatively affected they become when they hear it. People applied more common sense, and stopped over-thinking the language, we wouldn't have nearly as much heartache, and a lot fewer frivolous law suits. That's the problem with political correctness (for lack of a better term, I haven't had enough coffee yet), and affirmative action. It doesn't actually correct or affirm anything anymore (man, I love when it when alliteration just happens!). Education and common sense do. It served a purpose once, but now it's gone too far.
As another example, and along the lines of the 'Kemosabe' thing: buddy of mine got jacked up for having a Nazi tattoo a few years ago. It was the metal screaming eagle from a Judas Priest album. He got hauled in front of the RSM to explain his white supremicist leanings.
The kicker?

He's black.

 

[Trinity]

Sure..

only one problem

Education and Common sense...

common sense isn't common.... 

If we weren't discussing on the internet, I think we would find
common ground.  I see some, but I have a hard time trying to type it.
I agree if people could understand the use between friends, but
simply, people can't. 

 

[Art Johnson]

The "kemosabe saga" started after a complaint was made to the NS Human Rights Commission that
the term was used by a Cape Breton business to connect with one of their employees. The complaint
should never have gone forward if a modest amount of research was undertaken, but the complaint
was exagerrated by an opinion column in the Halifax Daily News, where the author, Professor Stephen
Kimber, reported that the term originated in the TV Series "The Lone Ranger" circa late 60's. But
in fact the story of the "Lone Ranger" commenced as a radio drama in 1939-1940 emenating from
Chicago, starring Clayton Moore, (picked for his deep baritone voice) - his Indian companion, Tonto
used the term "kemosabe" which in fact was created by scriptwriters of the period - had no connection
with the languages of the Western Plains Tribes of the period in which the adventures were set. An
authority on the languages of the famous fighting tribes, Comanches, Apaches etc. is author Larry
McMurtry, and Alan LeMay (author, "The Searchers"). The entire incident of the "kemosabe saga"was generated by the profound ignorance of the complainant, her lawyer, and a lazy journalism, and
pointed an unwanted finger at racism in Nova Scotia - totally unwarranted and without merit. MacLeod

I believe that the original radio voice of the Lone Ranger was Robert Hite Sr. He worked for CBS for about 30 years. His son Robert Jr. is a news anchor for WFLA-CH8 out of Tampa Florida. His daughter Cindy has a production company working out of Southern Florida and is also an entertainer in her own right.

 

[Art Johnson]

Oops I goofed. Earle Grasser was the original radio Lone Ranger beginning in April 1933. He died in an auto accident in 1941. Bob Hite Sr. was one of the anouncers on the show.

Hi Yo Silver, Away!

 

[paracowboy]

common sense isn't common....

now there, I fully agree!
To me, it's simple. Like everything else, this whole racial equality thing has been blown WAAAY out of proportion. It's very easy. Everybody is equal, so therefore, we can all talk and act around each other exactly the same, no matter if someone in the circle has a funny accent, or darker/lighter skin. By trying to say "we can't do this around these people" or "these people have special rights/considerations that others don't," all we're doing is emphasizing differences. This ain't ziggackly conducive to equality. And having courts/politicians/media involved at any level just makes shit more complicated, and starts costing me money.
We been preaching the most common sense approach for a couple thousand years now "Treat others as you would be treated." Siddhartha said it first, some Jewish carpenter's son made it even more famous. Good advice then, good advice now. Personally, I'd add: "Lighten up, people!"
You can't legislate away racism, but you can laugh it into oblivion.

 

[Infanteer]

Sounds about right to me, paracowboy.

 

[jmacleod]

A review of the original post indicates political correctness out of control in the NS Human Rights
Commission - there is a way to correct this. Legal Counsel Anne Smith should be subject to a
disciplinary hearing by the NS Barristers Society, and the Director's contract reviewed. The
original decision directed to the Complainant was the correct one, and should have been the
termination of any further activity. But the entire sorry adventure is based on ignorance, and
biased bureaucratic behaviour - a not uncommon situation in Nova Scotia. Some months ago
a licensed automobile driver was charged with a criminal offence. His NS driver's license was
suspended for two years - he was acquitted of the offence, but his license remained suspended
based on a decision by the NS Dept Highways which in fact had no validity in law. Current status
-unknown. I remember clearly the introduction of the NS Human Rights Commission into the
NS life style - it's mandate is on the Internet site. I am sure that there are many in Nova Scotia
who are familier with the works of author Fran Striker, and his introduction and use of the word
"kemosabe"; there are several well known universities with significant faculties of English, who
are familier with historic North American radio - a simple call to some of the well known former
broadcasters from CHNS or CJCH could have easily resolved the definition, scope and overall
use of the word, "kemosabe". MacLeod

 

[DogOfWar]

Im offended that Im expected to read everyones replies. Some one sum it up or ill be REALLLY offended.

You wouldnt like me when Im offended.