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Jagmeet Singh, probably the biggest political loser?

Brad Sallows said:
Politically involved conservatives are frustrating. I could wish they would leave the "gotcha" political field entirely to progressives.

Micro-insults are pointless, and it is clear from what people say and write in response to some alleged provocation that they often don't listen to or read carefully or properly research whatever it is that prompts their responses. Instead of a "+1 gotcha", they get a "-1 irrelevant rant" from persuadable voters. Presumably these things appeal to "the base", but is "the base" really so fragile that it needs to be constantly fed a diet of outrage directed at strawmen? Again, this is not a failing only of conservatives, but let others look after themselves. Someone who Poilievre respects ought to figuratively slap him silly until he understands the cost of sh!tty tone and imposes sensible discourse on the party.

Nevertheless, the governance we're getting right now is still several orders of magnitude worse than the schoolyard politics.
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I broadly agree with you, that as an engaged person the silly back and forth "gotcha" stuff is annoying. The reality is though, most voters aren't engaged, and take zero note of it. They make a choice based on surface level campaigns, cast a ballot, and get back to living their lives.

The whole point of the constant back and forth is all parties are trying to find a meme/soundbite that cuts through the background noise and resonates with people. "Sellout Singh" is just another attempt to see what sticks.

People make street interview videos every day, but Hawk Tuah Girl became instantly famous because her interview/soundbite cut through all of the other background noise.
 
Furniture said:
I broadly agree with you, that as an engaged person the silly back and forth "gotcha" stuff is annoying. The reality is though, most voters aren't engaged, and take zero note of it. They make a choice based on surface level campaigns, cast a ballot, and get back to living their lives.

The whole point of the constant back and forth is all parties are trying to find a meme/soundbite that cuts through the background noise and resonates with people. "Sellout Singh" is just another attempt to see what sticks.

People make street interview videos every day, but Hawk Tuah Girl became instantly famous because her interview/soundbite cut through all of the other background noise.
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The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

Winston Churchill said that.
 
Furniture said:
People make street interview videos every day, but Hawk Tuah Girl became instantly famous because her interview/soundbite cut through all of the other background noise.
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The fact She is also very attractive in that good/bad little girl next door also cut through the Guff.

With apologies to all the Girl Dad's out there from a Two Boys Dad.
 
The Bread Guy said:
Same timeframe as Team Blue putting out a new ad reaching out to blue collar folks (thanks, @Edward Campbell for pointing that one out elsewhere), Team Orange has this one out on how Team Blue's coach really isn't all that blue collar ...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1830642956463964275
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It's kind of rich to see the union leaders pretend that they are blue collar workers... Particularly in support of a party leader that is even less blue collar than the guy they are attacking.

I suppose it will play well with the white collar champaign socialists(in public), but I doubt this can move the needle at all.
 
Furniture said:
It's kind of rich to see the union leaders pretend that they are blue collar workers... Particularly in support of a party leader that is even less blue collar than the guy they are attacking.

I suppose it will play well with the white collar champaign socialists(in public), but I doubt this can move the needle at all.
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And at the same time some union leaders support Hamas.
 
Furniture said:
It's kind of rich to see the union leaders pretend that they are blue collar workers... Particularly in support of a party leader that is even less blue collar than the guy they are attacking.

I suppose it will play well with the white collar champaign socialists(in public), but I doubt this can move the needle at all.
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However the union leaders can generally at least honestly say that they came up doing the front line work within their union. Generally they were grunt-level, got elected as shop stewards, and eventually got elected to union executive roles. Many of them do then spend many years in the union full time and start to get divorced from that- but any allegation that they forget where they came from is going to need to be substantiated.
 
Unions are labour monopolies, and monopolies don't generally make the country stronger. Monopolies generally are able to price their products higher than in a competitive market. That means consumers pay more for a given amount of whatever it is they are buying.

Unions are not entirely good for workers. Collective bargaining rights tend to come at the cost of individual bargaining rights.
 
brihard said:
However the union leaders can generally at least honestly say that they came up doing the front line work within their union. Generally they were grunt-level, got elected as shop stewards, and eventually got elected to union executive roles. Many of them do then spend many years in the union full time and start to get divorced from that- but any allegation that they forget where they came from is going to need to be substantiated.
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Much like with PP regarding growing up working/middle class, and rising up through the political staffer levels to become the leader of the opposition... Unlike say, a leader that went to a private school in a foreign country funded by his wealthy parents, then went on to start a law firm before jumping into politics.
 
Furniture said:
Much like with PP regarding growing up working/middle class, and rising up through the political staffer levels to become the leader of the opposition... Unlike say, a leader that went to a private school in a foreign country funded by his wealthy parents, then went on to start a law firm before jumping into politics.
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Neither has any credible claim to relate to blue collar labour. Poilievre has never had a job outside of the political realm. A couple years with a polling company and then right into the party apparatus, elected at age 25, vested in his pension at 31, and a landlord several times over… Just so it’s clear he has no leg to stand on levying any criticism about being detached from the common working class man or woman. Frankly none of them are remotely close to having any credibility there.
 
brihard said:
Neither has any credible claim to relate to blue collar labour. Poilievre has never had a job outside of the political realm. A couple years with a polling company and then right into the party apparatus, elected at age 25, vested in his pension at 31, and a landlord several times over… Just so it’s clear he has no leg to stand on levying any criticism about being detached from the common working class man or woman. Frankly none of them are remotely close to having any credibility there.
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That was the point I was making, it's ludicrous for them to pretend that the NDP leader is any more in touch with the "common man" than the CPC leader is.

It will play well with upper-middle class urbanite socialists (champaign socialists), but will not move the needle one way or another with the actual "common man or woman".
 
Furniture said:
That was the point I was making, it's ludicrous for them to pretend that the NDP leader is any more in touch with the "common man" than the CPC leader is.

It will play well with upper-middle class urbanite socialists (champaign socialists), but will not move the needle one way or another with the actual "common man or woman".
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Don't be too sure ... I suspect that the average Canadian voter is quite detached from the actual issues: (s)he knows what (s)he believes to be true because (s)he saw it on TV. (S)he has zero idea, not within five significant figures, about the size of the national debt - in fact (s)he is hazy about debt vs deficit. (S)he is unaware that the Liberals and the NDP have a Confidence and Supply Agreement. Ans it goes on and on ...

And the parties know this and they, especially, right now, the CPC, are happy with this state of affairs. Right now something approaching 40% of Canadians think Pierre Poilievre is the working man's friend and champion and almost 20% still believe that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau actually underrates quantum computing.
 
... I suspect that the average Canadian voter is quite detached from the actual issues …
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Yes & no. There are Canadians worried about the level of Canada’s debt, but I would guess that for every one of them, there are easily (WAG here) 15-30 who worry about prices of things, mortgage rates, their kids not being able to own a home in the foreseeable future, etc. While debt & bigger picture things are issues, you have to take people from where they are & what they see, just like many here say Team Red isn’t doing.
Edward Campbell said:
(S)he has zero idea, not within five significant figures, about the size of the national debt - in fact (s)he is hazy about debt vs deficit.
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See above :)
Edward Campbell said:
… And the parties know this and they, especially, right now, the CPC, are happy with this state of affairs.
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For sure & each for different reasons. Team Blue’s happy to hammer away at bread & butter issues, while Team Red’s happy to not have to talk about something more complicated.

You are bang on about most voters not being as interested in the more inside baseball & esoteric bits @Edward Campbell. Love the discussion here, but we have to remember that compared to the “general public” or “average voter,”’our crowd here tends to skew right-er, be more interested in the minutiae & swordplay of politics/government and are WAY more interested in all things military.
 
The Bread Guy said:
Yes & no. There are Canadians worried about the level of Canada’s debt, but I would guess that for every one of them, there are easily (WAG here) 15-30 who worry about prices of things, mortgage rates, their kids not being able to own a home in the foreseeable future, etc. While debt & bigger picture things are issues, you have to take people from where they are & what they see, just like many here say Team Red isn’t doing.

See above :)

For sure & each for different reasons. Team Blue’s happy to hammer away at bread & butter issues, while Team Red’s happy to not have to talk about something more complicated.

You are bang on about most voters not being as interested in the more inside baseball & esoteric bits @Edward Campbell. Love the discussion here, but we have to remember that compared to the “general public” or “average voter,”’our crowd here tends to skew right-er, be more interested in the minutiae & swordplay of politics/government and are WAY more interested in all things military.
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And @Edward Campbell I have to say I disagree

I am surprised at the 20-35 ish crowd, they are very informed or know how to find the info they need. Social media, youtube and google can provide a lot of useful information and that age crowd seems far better at cross checking/fact checking whatever they find.
I am 51 and my crowd seems to be an enigma, has many will be happy to be ignorant as you point out. Others can adapt and research (and then verify) the info they are looking for.
My parents generation seems to be (no offence) the worst for ignorance. Its my observation not absolute facts, that crowd seems to get their info the old fashion way, whatever news media they follow or who they have predetermined to follow.
 
There is a difference between ignorance and apathy. Right now, most Millennials (myself included) are well aware of the state of things; we just have zero faith that any of it can be swiftly course corrected in time for it to make a difference in our or our children's lives.

That realism (some say pessimism) makes it extremely difficult for any major party to have a real breakthrough with our demographic.

Millennials saw their parents lose everything in the early 90s crash, came of age in the Great Recession of 2008, saw 20 years of War in the Middle East followdd by a Global Pandemic and the worst "Not a Depression" in history; there are a lot of shining examples for us to see that Team Red and Team Blue both suck at this whole governing thing.

This is why I see so many 30-45 folks looking at the NDP who normally would lean LPC or CPC.

I would also offer that Milennial voters are far more socially liberal than previous demographics when they moved out of the 18-30 idealism phase of life. We have been brought up in one of the most tolerant societies in history; where gender, race, orientation, etc. are non-starters for the majority of us.

To have the CPC try to appeal to "Old Stock" or "Traditional Values" would see their support evaporate; its also why you're going to see the smear come from the LPC and NDP because its an easy target.

I think all parties are struggling with how to get the Millenial vote. Time will tell how quickly it shifts the policy and platforms to get in step with a generation that felt abandoned by politicians for most of their voting lifetime thus far.
 
rmc_wannabe said:
There is a difference between ignorance and apathy. Right now, most Millennials (myself included) are well aware of the state of things; we just have zero faith that any of it can be swiftly course corrected in time for it to make a difference in our or our children's lives.

That realism (some say pessimism) makes it extremely difficult for any major party to have a real breakthrough with our demographic.

Millennials saw their parents lose everything in the early 90s crash, came of age in the Great Recession of 2008, saw 20 years of War in the Middle East followdd by a Global Pandemic and the worst "Not a Depression" in history; there are a lot of shining examples for us to see that Team Red and Team Blue both suck at this whole governing thing.

This is why I see so many 30-45 folks looking at the NDP who normally would lean LPC or CPC.

I would also offer that Milennial voters are far more socially liberal than previous demographics when they moved out of the 18-30 idealism phase of life. We have been brought up in one of the most tolerant societies in history; where gender, race, orientation, etc. are non-starters for the majority of us.

To have the CPC try to appeal to "Old Stock" or "Traditional Values" would see their support evaporate; its also why you're going to see the smear come from the LPC and NDP because its an easy target.

I think all parties are struggling with how to get the Millenial vote. Time will tell how quickly it shifts the policy and platforms to get in step with a generation that felt abandoned by politicians for most of their voting lifetime thus far.
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Yup. A lot of people haven’t realized that slagging of the millennial generation hasn’t updated in a decade… Meanwhile we’re solidly in our thirties, well into careers and establishing families, and shifting our thinking to what our kids are going to have waiting for them. As you say, the social conservative stuff just doesn’t grab most of us, and has a repellent effect… And that won’t change with the next generation. It’s done; bury it or be chained to it, your choice. Fiscally conservative is of much greater interest, if it doesn’t come with torching important benefits programs, and if the culturally regressive baggage can be shed by a conservative option bringing it to the table.

It’s weird that the parties are still struggling with that.
 
rmc_wannabe said:
This is why I see so many 30-45 folks looking at the NDP who normally would lean LPC or CPC.
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I suspect this may be a case of your social circle, more than an overall trend. The CPC are leading with every demographic according to Leger.
 
ArmyRick said:
I am surprised at the 20-35 ish crowd, they are very informed or know how to find the info they need.
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You are clearly referring to a completely different group of 25-30ish folks than I meet on any given day.
 
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