'It's time to consolidate NDHQ' & 'DND to take-over Nortel Campus' (Merged threads)

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Not everybody will be moving to Nortel, should it happen.  The Ottawa Citizen notes that the department will continue to operate National Defence headquarters in downtown Ottawa.  Construction on LSTL II has been ongoing for the last 2 months - 2200 new folks are coming to LSTL II with a move in date of 2012.  Hopefully this will reduce NDHQ from almost 40 locations across the National Capital Region to less than a handful. 

 

[McG]

The point was, people are inconvenienced by the company all the time.  Don't like it?  Get out.  That's all we got.

There's inconvenienced, and there's financially hammered on your home sale.  One is okay, the other is not.

Many on this site have often (and rightfully) pointed out that "the company" should also think of the people.  In the various base closure examples, the military pers were all given paid moves to thier new places of work and the civilians would have been offered paid moves or they would have been entitled to union won "work force adjustment" benefits.  In the case of relocating NDHQ, the workforce also needs to be part of the consideration.  Maybe not a go/no-go factor, but certainly a plan to mitigate hardships should be on the books.  Conceivably, everyone east of "the split" at hwys 417 & 174 could be given a 4 year window to opt into a paid relocation to the west side of downtown. 

Let's  not forget that this is a federal government department, and we cannot do anything without a collection of ministers assessing the potential impacts on local economies.  If this move would "hammer" one side of the city, then the government would insist on some sort of plan to make-nice (such as encouraging the sub-way with federal dollars).

The first HUGE hurdle is to get the Government go change a policy that says 25% of each and every major government department or agency is in Québec. Unless DND is allowed to be exempted then a relocation will not, because it cannot, reap all the benefits it should.

I once proposed (some what sarcastically) that the solution to a consolidated NDHQ was to build an island in the centre of the Ottawa river with foot bridges connecting the parking lots on either side of the river.  The 25% policy could be satisfied, all political interests could be appeased, and NDHQ could operate under a single roof (or at least on a single campus).

A proper, full, relocation to Moodie Drive – with space to spare for e.g. large Project Management Offices and for nearby offices for e.g. contractors – can save time,  money and people and can make day-by-day staff work more efficient and effective.

But, if the relocation is incomplete then it may waste more than it saves.

This is the critical "if."  Should a Moodie Dr campus simply serve to consolidate all the little scattered offices, then it will likely induce more harm than good.  There is already an inordinate amount of salary wasted in travel and wait times on the NDHQ shuttle service.  Adding another 60 min round trip will not help productivity nor communication within the headquarters.

... as an asside, I would also hope the messes follow wherever a consolidated NDHQ goes.  I know most seem emotionally attached to historic buildings, but a failure to follow NDHQ to a new location would solidify irrelevance to still serving members. 

 

[Pusser]

Is there no one who is excited at this possibility?  I know in my case it will actually reduce my commute and make things much easier.  But then again, when I chose the location where I wanted to buy a house, I considered where I wanted to live, not where the easiest commute was.  On that issue; however, one should realize that if thousands of people are now going to be going a new location, OC Transpo will adjust its routes and schedules accordingly.  It wouldn't make economic sense for them not to.

 

[George Wallace]

..........  On that issue; however, one should realize that if thousands of people are now going to be going a new location, OC Transpo will adjust its routes and schedules accordingly.  It wouldn't make economic sense for them not to.

Do you have that much faith that economic or common sense will come into play?      >

 

[captloadie]

Other than the civilian work force, shouldn't the rest of the CF expect to be rotating in and out of Ottawa? Wouldn't this mean that, as far as commuting, you'd only be inconvnienced for what, 1 year or two, before being posted out?  >

I'd be snatching up any apartment buildings or hotels in the area to take advantage of the new IR's  ;D

 

[57Chevy]

OTTAWA — The federal government is set to announce the purchase of the Nortel Networks campus just outside of Ottawa for the Department of National Defence.

Department officials have wanted for years to consolidate its dozens of offices in the city into several key locations.

The successful purchase of the $150-million Nortel campus will accomplish that goal, government sources say.

DND has been concerned about security, rising rents and aging buildings. The consolidation will also cut costs.

John MacLennan, national president of the Union of National Defence Employees, said his organization is concerned about transportation problems for workers commuting to suburban Ottawa.

"You're adding on extra time to get to work, from one end of the city to the other and transit services aren't the best. It's going to be a challenge for a lot of people."

The deal could be announced as early as Monday.
article link

BF seeing it's Monday.  ;D

 

[PuckChaser]

With that many employees moving to a certain area, it would be downright dumb of OC Transpo not to make a dedicated express route to encourage transit use and get everyone there faster.

 

[Pusser]

Do you have that much faith that economic or common sense will come into play?      >

Admittedly, I'm not entirely confident that OC Transpo will do this right.  There is far too much political meddling with that organization by Ottawa City Council, who often seem more content to provide comic relief in the NCR, than actual leadership.  Nevertheless, I have seen other transit companies make adjustments to their routes and schedules in order to meet new demands created by changes in the military demographic.  So it could happen!  :nod: 

Right now, many DND/CF people take the bus to work because of parking issues.  These may go away at the Nortel site.  If OC Transpo doesn't want to suffer a huge loss of business, they will have to provide acceptable routes and schedules to the new site.  That's the business case solution, but we'll see what happens.

 

[George Wallace]

With that many employees moving to a certain area, it would be downright dumb of OC Transpo not to make a dedicated express route to encourage transit use and get everyone there faster.

Logic does not seem to be in the vocabulary of the people at OC Transpo.  In the last year they have made many changes to routes in the East End that have caused a lot of consternation amongst their ridership.  Cutting buses on high volume routes.  Changing the routes of buses, leaving riders high and dry.  The East End is where the majority of the ridership resides.  When OC Transpo makes decisions that alienate them, they find other means to get to work.  The road network is being maxed out by disgruntled OC Transpo riders who no longer take the buses.

OC Transpo, like the majority of Ottawa bureaucracy is mismanaged by inept people who would rather see a raise in taxes and Bus fares, than run a profit making transit system. 

 

[George Wallace]

Other than the civilian work force, shouldn't the rest of the CF expect to be rotating in and out of Ottawa? Wouldn't this mean that, as far as commuting, you'd only be inconvnienced for what, 1 year or two, before being posted out?  >

I'd be snatching up any apartment buildings or hotels in the area to take advantage of the new IR's  ;D

There are some Trades that are wholly centered in Ottawa.  Some of these Trades only have small Dets across the country, or leave for short periods on Tasking or Tours, but are basically centered on their 'unit' in Ottawa.

Remember, Ottawa is not solely an "Officer Posting".  They have staffs who work under them to get things done.  I am sure that an RMS clerk can be posted from one "Dept" to another within Ottawa and have a "No Cost Posting".  I am also sure that many have pulled off "Compassionate Postings" to stay in Ottawa for their whole careers. 
 
I am sure you will find some pers who have spent twenty or more years posted to Ottawa. 



[Edit to add]

There are not too many hotels in that area of town.  You have to go out to Bells Corners or Kanata to find a hotel or motel.  This campus is on the edge of the "Green Belt", with residential land between it and the River, an Equestrian facility to the South and Connaught Ranges and Shirley's Bay Facilities to the West.  No easy walk to any lodging.

 

[dapaterson]

If a trade can spend 20+ years in Ottawa, it`s time to civilianize it and return those military PYs for reinvestment.

I suspect the end-state will see three  facilities:  The new campus, Louis St Laurent to meetthe 25% Quebec factor, plus NDHQ (101 Col By).

That will mean the messes will stay downtown, unfortunately.  Personally, I`d close all five messes, and re-open three all-ranks facilities: the main one at the new campus, and reduced ones at Louis and 101.

Of course, real change could be made by having people show up - if you could gather 40 like-minded people you could take over any mess meeting you want.

 

[George Wallace]

If a trade can spend 20+ years in Ottawa, it`s time to civilianize it and return those military PYs for reinvestment.

I was thinking of some of the Trades that are out at CFJIC, CFEWC, Leitrim, etc. who are for the most part centered in Ottawa, with few postings elsewhere.  There must be several hundred in this category.  Many of those Trades have been "Civilianized" with members taking retirement and walking in the next day as a higher paid civilian, waiting for their Security Clearance to be reinstated. 

 

[McG]

I suspect the end-state will see three  facilities:  The new campus, Louis St Laurent to meetthe 25% Quebec factor, plus NDHQ (101 Col By).

I suppose there are other possibilities.  The .COMs were kicked out to Startop because there was a desire to keep them seperate entities from NDHQ.  Even if they are consolidated down to a single L1, I assume that desire would remaind.  We move the operational command to Gatineau while brining the LStL workforce back to the consolidated campus. 

As for 101, that could be given-up to another department with the majority of occupants also moving to the consolidated campus while a few (CDS, SJS, and any ministerial staff) transition to a small executive office in the downtown (or maybe even old Hull to reinforce the 25% while remaining very close to Parlaiment).

 

[Edward Campbell]

I suppose there are other possibilities.  The .COMs were kicked out to Startop because there was a desire to keep them seperate entities from NDHQ.  Even if they are consolidated down to a single L1, I assume that desire would remaind.  We move the operational command to Gatineau while brining the LStL workforce back to the consolidated campus. 

As for 101, that could be given-up to another department with the majority of occupants also moving to the consolidated campus while a few (CDS, SJS, and any ministerial staff) transition to a small executive office in the downtown (or maybe even old Hull to reinforce the 25% while remaining very close to Parlaiment).

I rather like that idea:

1. NDHQ1 - downtown - MND, DM1, ADM(Pol), ADM(Com & PA), ADM(Fin) and ADM(Civ Pers)
2. NDHQ2 - new campus - MND (Alt), DM (Alt), ADM(Mat) (complete) + CFHQ - CDS et al, Joint Staff (CEFCOM disappears and is subsumed here), Service staffs, etc including a proper MILPERSCEN
3. CANCOM (with CANOSCOM subsumed into it) and CANSOFCOM - Gatineau


----------
National Defence HQ is split into main (primary) and rear (secondary - mostly ADM(Mat)) echelons but the Canadian Forces' HQ would be consolidated in one campus.

 

[George Wallace]

The site does offer room for a lot of consolidation and still keep the various Departments segregated in separate buildings.  It would have adequate parking for Mil Pat and PMOVs.  It has good access to a couple of major hwys. 

With some foresight on the part of the numerous levels of government bureaucracies it could be a decent location, even though it is at the end of the outward flight path of Ottawa International.  If the City were to partner with several other levels of government and build a Ring Road, it may even enhance this as a choice, giving it even better access to other parts of city.


Note:  The bus routes on this image, are Peak Hour routes, and not normal routes.

 

[Captsapper@gmail.com]

To further the discussion about public transit to this facility, the City of Ottawa has previously approved an extension to the Transitway from Bayshore to Moodie.  I know it will not be as convenient as stepping off the bus as people do currently at NDHQ but this will significantly improve the speed of service in this area.  From what I have read this is supposed to go forward sometime in 2011.

http://ottawa.ca/residents/construction/projects/wte_bayshore_to_moodie/index_en.html

As for access by car, when traveling north on the 416 you now have to get off at Holly Acres and do a couple of left hand turns to get back onto the 417 westbound and off at Moodie.  This has a potential for being a real choke-point.  That said it is leaps and bounds better than before the recent construction, previously when traveling northbound on the 416 and exiting at Moodie one had to merge to the right across three lanes of highway traffic within approximately 350-400m.  I did that drive daily for five years and I am sure it shaved a few years my life expectancy.

 

[dapaterson]

Two ball diamonds and a soccer field.  So that's three fewer excuses for males to require maternity CADPAT due to their girth.


But the key question:  Where's the Timmies????

 

[Captsapper@gmail.com]

Currently there is at least one inside...  Used to be more but as Nortel's numbers declined so did the number of timmies outlets.

 

[PuckChaser]

Currently there is at least one inside...

That just sold me that this is the perfect building for NDHQ and all the Dot Coms.

I bet the soccer field gets turned into a parking lot though.  >

 

[HavokFour]

Wait, is this the same complex I keep hearing they were going to build out here in Orleans? Or have they scrapped that plan? All that's been built on the site is a wooden fence in the middle of a field. It's not even a whole fence, it's just one side.