Italian hostage who screamed "Now I‘ll show you how an Italian dies."

[Garry]

Mr Quattrocchi showed a lot of spine- good on him.

I hope it gives his family some comfort, and his countrymen a cause.

We all have some lessons to learn. One of those is that making war may be easier than making peace. Another is that no matter how noble your intentions, an occupying force is just that.

As for the mutilation of the bodies- we dropped the ball big time on that. The (average)Iraqi‘s themselves were disgusted by the actions of those that dragged the bodies around- had we asked, I‘d bet my bottom dollar that we‘d have been told who did it, and where they lived. Instead, we attacked everyone.

The Iraqis aren‘t animals. They have a very strict code of conduct that may be strange to our way of thinking, but perfectly normal for them. They are a society that understands and accepts revenge, and while everyone in the area would have understood, and accepted, the killing of these men, most would have been horrified by the "display" of their remains.

We (as a coallition) NEED to understand the minds of the Iraqis.

PS- wholesale slaughter may have it‘s place in an all out war, but is kind of at odds when you‘re "liberating" an oppressed people.

 

[Infanteer]

Because of the millions of innocent human beings living there you f___ing retard.

Sir Arthur Harris appreciates the fact that you think he is a retard.

 

[Marauder]

Everytime the States underreactes to something such as the immolation and desecration of those contractors, they just encourage more of it. These freaks don‘t understand any language other than violence and fear. If the local military command was serious, they would have cordoned the city and then called in Arclight after Arclight after Arclight. A message needed to be sent, and instead the Marines had to insert among a hostile populace who supported, aided, and abbetted the Saddam regime back in the day. The ***** token reaction sent the wrong message, and got good Marines killed to little effect.

Once you get the populace by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

But then I think if Dubya was smart, he would have just level the shithole of a country, called a Carthaginian peace, and told those other insane freaks in the MidEast that that was the fate awaiting any other nation that stepped out of line.

 

[Pikache]

Originally posted by Infanteer:
[qb]

Because of the millions of innocent human beings living there you f___ing retard.

Sir Arthur Harris appreciates the fact that you think he is a retard. [/qb]

Actually, somebody did do a study on effect of Allied bombing campaign on German war effort and his conclusion was that it didn‘t have much effect at all until mid 1944 or something.

I can‘t remember the name of the book, for the life of me. It was about Luftwaffe though. *shrug*

 

[Infanteer]

Your right RHF, that is the generally accepted fact...doesn‘t take away from the fact that all sides considered carpet bombing relevant.

Morality is in the eye of the beholder.

Carthaginian peace, I like it.

Fallujah Delenda Est

 

[xFusilier]

As Nietzche once said:

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

Pretty hard to claim to have the moral high ground when you are willing to kill thousands of innocents to avenge the death of less than a hundered.

 

[stukirkpatrick]

As Nietzche once said:

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

Pretty hard to claim to have the moral high ground when you are willing to kill thousands of innocents to avenge the death of less than a hundered.

It was always ironic how Nietzche made so many philosophical comments like that, and nonetheless unintentionally became the favourite of Hitler...

 

[wongskc]

Carpet bombing was an accepted fact of the World War II era, but that was a total war between two European powers. It was a fight to the finish, with every last man and dollar put into it. You cannot say that Iraq is the same situation. Simply calling an air strike or artillery bombardment on a neighbourhood where there are a bunch of snipers or insurgents is not going to supress resistance. It will do the opposite, especially where innocents lose their homes and families.

 

[stukirkpatrick]

There was carpet bombing in Vietnam too, wasn‘t there? And I think that most of the bombing of Hanoi was more for psychological reasons than infrastructure - it wouldn‘t stop the Vietcong.

It was also political pressure that restrained the American military in S Asia too.

 

[Pikache]

Isn‘t the Coalition in Iraq to help out the Iraqis, not blow them up into little pieces?

Not going to make many friends blowing Iraqis into pieces and have their relatives and the neighbourhood up against you.

 

[1feral1]

By calling a fire mission on a tgt will ENSURE that the tgt in question will be destroyed along with the EN inside, and thus suppress the ‘baddies‘ inside, and saving more Allied lives, allowing them to fight on.

Remember, we take the fight to the EN regardless!So we wont be fighting the EN on our own streets.

Innocents are always casualties of any war, ever. Sadly its the truth, but more than often in this new war, the EN are in civvy clothes, and by the time casualty figures are counted, the EN have stripped thier corpses of wpns, and kit, and when Al-Jazerra gets hold of it, they suddenly apprear to be civvy casualties.

We also know the EN occupy houses using the innocents as human shields too. Thats weak, but thats how the new EN fight. Its worse than dirty.

Remember its only a small minority who are stirring the pot. Mainstream Iraqis do not want a radical Islamic state, nor the Sunni Saddam lovers either.

So, in short the EN must be killed, and that means by fighting. Also remember they value death as much as we value life, and therefore its the corkscrew and blowtorch method all over again.

The only way to do this is with firepower. No other way.

Regards,

Wes

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Carpet bombing was an effective form back in the day because we didn‘t have the technology for smart bombs. One bomb, one target reduces the civilian casualties as well as the pilots that drop the bomb instead of revisiting a target that has been missed in a carpet bomb and possibly take more damage.

 

[portcullisguy]

Perhaps a very high wall should be built around the troubled areas of Iraq, say about 50 or 60 feet. Give them their peace, withdraw the coalition troops, seal them from the outside "evil" world with its "satanic" influences...


... and then fill them to the top with water!

 

[combat_medic]

OK people, could we propose a solution that DOESN‘T involve mass genocide? Other than shooting, bombing and drowning the entire population of the Middle East, does anyone have a viable solution to this problem?

 

[kiltedtradesman]

:evil: :evil: :evil: :skull: NO!!! :skull: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Now let the boys vent.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Reduce dependence on foriegn oil (oil in general).
Pull back from Isreal.

 

[Gunnar]

Israel is a perfect example of everything the terrorists hate. A modern, civilized democracy in exactly the same land area that has had nothing but despots and terrorists in it for years. Not only does it make them look like little people they are, it shows them up daily. No wonder they‘re annoyed at Israel.

Nope. More support for Israel is the only moral thing to do here. Appeasing a terrorist never works. Time to show him that we don‘t run from conflict.

 

[1feral1]

Try www.islamicsydney.com and www.islam.org.au and take a look at the forums and the anti Israel propaganda (Boycott Israel). Almost like something out of the past say 70yrs ago in Nazi Germany.

Regards,

Wes

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I never said appease the terrorists. I think if the rest of the world cut out a piece of Austrailia and gave it to another nation then, the citizens of Australia might have a problem with it.

 

[1feral1]

CFL:

Just what are you saying? Why are you bringing the Commonwealth of Australia into the fray?

I dont really understand where you are coming from, and what you are trying to get accross.

Personally, I reckon that both Israel and Palestine are as bad as one another, with their ‘tit for tat‘ violence.

So, what are you saying?

Ack.

Out

Wes