Islam and Western Society

[s2184]

But, are we - Canada prepared for possible treats by ISIS?  :

I won't be surprised if anyone or considerable number of people from Canada already joined, and working for ISIS.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Better to light one candle, as they say ....

A Calgary imam will start a 48-hour hunger strike Friday evening to protest the beheading of an American journalist in Iraq this week by ISIS.

Imam Syed Soharwardy, founder of Muslims Against Terrorism and the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada, says he wants to draw attention to the actions of ISIS — a group of militants fighting for an Islamic state in the Middle East whose violent activities show they are not Muslims.

"The atrocity that is being carried out by ISIS is quite horrible. It's quite inhumane. It's terrorism and in Canada they have successfully recruited more than 100 people to go and fight for them in Iraq and Syria," Soharwardy said.

"I want to create awareness about the nature of their work — they are using Islam, they are quoting Qur'an, they look like Muslims, they pray like Muslims but they are not Muslim. They are deviant people, and they are doing exactly everything which goes against Islam."

Soharwardy said he wants to make sure Muslim youth know that ISIS militants are not Muslims because many are being brainwashed by the terror group and other radical leaders ....

Let's see how much coverage THIS guy gets ....

I won't be surprised if anyone or considerable number of people from Canada already joined, and working for ISIS.

Behold ....

• "Farah Mohamed Shirdon of Calgary fighting for Islamic State of Iraq and Syria"
• "Canadian Jihadists Revealed Fighting For ISIS in Iraq"
• "Canadian ISIS member’s online ‘wake up call’ urges Muslims to follow example of Calgary suicide bomber"

 

[s2184]

I was not following world & National news for a while. It looks like so much happened. I started looking into more details of current developments after the beheading of a journalist.

What I understand from watching ISIS videos is that they are deliberately making horror to get media & public attention in international scene. They have been very successful in reaching the audience and get the messages across.

They are using Islam as their lethal weapon for propaganda. An average educated person like me, I don't even know what is written in their holy book, and where they draw the line between right & wrong.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I was not following world & National news for a while. It looks like so much happened. I started looking into more details of current developments after the beheading of a journalist.

What I understand from watching ISIS videos is that they are deliberately making horror to get media & public attention in international scene. They have been very successful in reaching the audience and get the messages across.

They are using Islam as their lethal weapon for propaganda. An average educated person like me, I don't even know what is written in their holy book, and where they draw the line between right & wrong.

The line is wherever their particular bearded nut job cleric tells them it is.

 

[BorisK]

This is somewhat off topic but correct thread I'm thinking :

A friend posted the following video on Facebook. 

Now based on my own understanding of history, religion & politics I feel I can reasonably dispute the narrative in the video that professes 'Islam' is by no means an aggressor and is only fighting for sovereignty and pluralism (peace). 
However, as I enjoy hearing other perspectives, I was hoping to hear a reaction to this video from some members of this forum - both because I not only respect the opinions around here, but also because frankly I find this to be a 'safe' place to have a civil discussion on the topic since Facebook in my experience does not welcome any discussion on this topic other than 'White people are the real terrorists' [a statement I always find ironic coming from people claiming to be 'not racist'] or 'blame the Jews / blame the west / blame corporations / blame bacon / blame anybody but the guy holding a sword screaming death to __________ (insert many of the worlds populous here). 

Here's the video - would appreciate some comments if anyone has the time or inclination : (sorry if it hijacked the thread's discussion)

http://youtu.be/Tv4iBGjJbaw

 

[s2184]

The line is wherever their particular bearded nut job cleric tells them it is.

This is of course true for other religions too. The religious leaders mostly rule the world directly or indirectly.  ;D

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Can any lessons from ending Japan's hard line beliefs in WWII be applied to our present predicament?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

For the more educated. Thoughts?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/29/what-to-do-about-isis/

 

[jollyjacktar]

Can any lessons from ending Japan's hard line beliefs in WWII be applied to our present predicament?

Let's see, the coup de grace which allowed a paradigm shift in their beliefs was Fat Man and Little Boy was it not? 

ER did ponder at the possibility of a really graphic example being made necessary in order to get their attention and stop the madness.  How far should the rest of the world be prepared to go to get that attention?

 

[GAP]

He is basically saying the US should bow down and kiss their ass.....what's educational about that? :

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Are the situations similar though?

Let's see, the coup de grace which allowed a paradigm shift in their beliefs was Fat Man and Little Boy was it not? 

ER did ponder at the possibility of a really graphic example being made necessary in order to get their attention and stop the madness.  How far should the rest of the world be prepared to go to get that attention?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend thinking has seemed to prove more harmful. So is it that discretion is the better part of valour or ramp it up and put the fear of Allah into them?

He is basically saying the US should bow down and kiss their ass.....what's educational about that? :

 

[jollyjacktar]

Are the situations similar though?

That all depends upon your viewpoint on the subject.  Prior to the outbreak of hostilities 75 years ago, there were those who felt, as today, that Fascism presented no threat or at the very least not to them and therefore should be ignored as it wasn't their problem.  There were those also that were held in thrall by the various Fascist regimes (Germany, Japan, Italy etc etc) either as eager participants or sympathizers.  And of course there were the rest, who believed they needed to be stopped whatever the cost and took that as far as was believed to be needed to curb stomp the enemy into submission (nuclear combat in 1945).

It was desirable to force Japan post capitulation to change their path which led the world to the precipice.  Today, we seemingly face the same Hobson's choice (take it or leave it) with respect to radical Islam.  The Islamists of ISIS etc, have stated their end game is to make the world surrender and submit to their faith at the point of a sword.  They seem to be incapable of reasoned co-existence or compromise as they are in thrall to the twisted vision of Islam they operate under.  To me, this seems as if this will turn into a fight to the death by one side or the other as it was in my dad's war.  Maybe not today, this month or year, but one day.

So are the situations similar?  I believe so, as radical Islam needs to be made to let go of their objectives of world domination.  And that, I think will have to come from within Islam itself if it is to be achievable.  The silent majority must be convinced to turn upon this cancer that is eating their faith and desires the world.  What will be that tipping point?  Or more to the point, how far is one side going to have to go to change the other?

I have read by some that they believe Islam is already on its reformation as described by ER, however, these same authors believe the reformation is in the form of radical Islam.  If so, that does not bode well to make Islam a true religion of peace.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

If total war to stop an ideology is thought of as just in WW2, is a war in today's day and age to purge a branch of religion palatable?

Japan was fire bombed and nuked into obedience. Japanese were put internment camps in North America. Will society be willing to go to those extremes again?

Or do we try to understand what is making our citizens feel disenfranchised, make possible and understandable concessions and quarantine the rising tide by pulling back and setting up a blockade around the Islamic countries

 

[GAP]

If total war to stop an ideology is thought of as just in WW2, is a war in today's day and age to purge a branch of religion palatable? Not initially until something al la 9/11 happens again....

Japan was fire bombed and nuked into obedience. Japanese were put internment camps in North America. Will society be willing to go to those extremes again?

See above

Or do we try to understand what is making our citizens feel disenfranchised, make possible and understandable concessions to whom? the Islamists? and quarantine the rising tide which don't work, but ok by pulling back and setting up a blockade which don't work, but ok around the Islamic countries

It is nice ideal, not very practible or enforceable  :2c:

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I believe those leaving the west may be joining for more then just a sudden change in ideology.

That said, what would you like to try, because arming the enemies enemy is not working out so well.

 

[Edward Campbell]

If total war to stop an ideology is thought of as just in WW2, is a war in today's day and age to purge a branch of religion palatable?

Japan was fire bombed and nuked into obedience. Japanese were put internment camps in North America. Will society be willing to go to those extremes again?

Or do we try to understand what is making our citizens feel disenfranchised, make possible and understandable concessions and quarantine the rising tide by pulling back and setting up a blockade around the Islamic countries

I grew up in the 1950s, in a small town in British Columbia. My high school girl friend was a Canadian of Japanese ethnicity, she was born in an internment camp. Some of my chums in the Army, including two of my Staff College classmates, were also Canadians of Japanese ethnicity, also born in those camps. I have a continuing horror of what "we" did to our fellow citizens ... just because their parents had a (largely religious) link to a country with which we were at war ... oh, and their eyes were shaped differently and they were damned hard working folks, too.

Would I inter Canadians again? Yes ... but on a very, VERY selective basis. The idea of making everyone of this, that or the other ethnic, religious or cultural group into an enemy is abhorrent to me.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Given sufficient fear, any inhumane mob behaviour is possible.  People reluctant to confront a problem (or who oppose simply for the sake of factional opposition) should think carefully about where inaction leads.

The Islamists are not going to win.  Either they are going to be defeated messily, or they are going to be defeated brutally.  The choice, ironically, lies with those who shrink from dealing with the problem.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

You're very optimistic

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I grew up in the 1950s, in a small town in British Columbia. My high school girl friend was a Canadian of Japanese ethnicity, she was born in an internment camp. Some of my chums in the Army, including two of my Staff College classmates, were also Canadians of Japanese ethnicity, also born in those camps. I have a continuing horror of what "we" did to our fellow citizens ... just because their parents had a (largely religious) link to a country with which we were at war ... oh, and their eyes were shaped differently and they were damned hard working folks, too.

Would I inter Canadians again? Yes ... but on a very, VERY selective basis. The idea of making everyone of this, that or the other ethnic, religious or cultural group into an enemy is abhorrent to me.

All done legally by people speaking of the Public good and Public Safety, supported no doubt by the "soccer moms" of the day. It is a good lesson that society should be reminded of on a regular basis so as not to repeat again.