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Iraq barbarism-The Mutilation of 4 American Civilians-Article

Pieman

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Pretty ugly stuff. There are a couple of pictures on the CNN websight in the image gallery.

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Americans, confronted by shocking images of Iraq barbarism, reminded of Somalia
03:51 AM EST Apr 02
BETH GORHAM

WASHINGTON (CP) - It was hard to escape the grisly evidence of hatred Thursday as Americans confronted shocking images of jubilant Iraqis celebrating the deaths and mutilations of four U.S. civilians.

While officials vowed to stand firm and punish those involved in the brutal Fallujah incident, the graphic pictures that appeared in U.S. newspapers and spilled onto Internet sites threatened to accelerate turmoil about the war among election-year voters at home.

"Powerful visuals are extremely important in moulding public opinion and these will not be forgotten," pollster John Zogby said from New York.

"Americans are already split on the war. This will harden the opposition and may chip away at some of the soft support."

The 13-month war has been mostly devoid of potent imagery, beyond pictures of Iraqi mass graves from Saddam Hussein's brutal regime and the contentious story of U.S. soldier Jessica Lynch and her rescue from an Iraqi hospital.

"This trumps both of those," said Zogby.

But Karlyn Bowman, an analyst at the American Enterprise Institute think-tank, said the dramatic evidence of barbarism won't change many views among Americans who expected winning the peace to be more difficult than victory in war.

"I don't expect any significant change in public opinion," she said in an interview.

"As much of a tragedy as Americans think this is, I think they'll stick with what they already thought."

Still, the White House appeared mindful of the potential impact during President George W. Bush's bid for re-election this fall, especially since he's made his anti-terrorism fight a key component of his campaign.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan called for "responsible" media coverage of the murders Wednesday of four security contractors.

They were beaten, burned and hung from a bridge in the city west of Baghdad.

Major newspapers ran pictures of the charred, hanging corpses. Television networks were less inclined to show footage of the bodies, focusing instead on their burning SUVs and the frenzied mob.

But for many, it was Somalia all over again; a vivid reminder of similar scenes from 1993, when the corpses of U.S. soldiers were dragged through the streets of Mogadishu. Memories of the ill-fated mission were resurrected in the 2002 Hollywood movie Black Hawk Down.

Such incomprehensible acts eventually prompted Americans to withdraw from Somalia.

Not even critics, however, were suggesting an Iraq departure, a move some say could lead to civil war and provide sanctuary for more terrorists.

"United in sadness, we are also united in our resolve that these enemies will not prevail," said Democrat John Kerry, Bush's all-but-official rival in the Nov. 2 vote.

"We cannot afford to lose this," agreed Republican Senator John McCain, a maverick who's opposed Bush's handling of the conflict. "We cannot leave and we cannot fail."

But McCain repeated Thursday his demands for more U.S. Special Forces and Arab linguists who can confront the type of insurgency that has become more entrenched as the conflict drags on.

Violence in March has gone well beyond soldiers in the bloodiest month since major combat ended last May 1, claiming the lives of Iraqi police and foreign civilians, including a Canadian.

Security expert Andy Bradsell, 33, an ex-British marine living in Victoria with his wife and young family, died Sunday when a convoy headed to a power station in northern Iraq was ambushed by masked gunmen.

"There are certainly areas of Iraq that remain dangerous," acknowledged the White House's McClellan, "but we will not be deterred by these cowardly, hateful acts."

State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said he expects the attacks to subside after the transfer of sovereignty to Iraq at the end of June.

"(But) there are always going to be a small number of people who prefer to look backwards, rather than look forward."

The comparison to Mogadishu is erroneous, said Ereli, because the U.S.-led coalition is working with Iraqis and the great majority of them have a much brighter vision of the future than Somalians did.

One analyst said Iraqi victims of deposed dictator Saddam Hussein's brutal regime should be enlisted to combat those who oppose the U.S. presence.

"We need to start bringing victims into Fallujah by the thousands," Rob Sobhani of Georgetown University told CNN, adding the incident crystallizes "the depth of rage against American foreign policy."

Punishment for the barbaric acts on the four contract workers "will be precise and it will be overwhelming," U.S. General Mark Kimmitt said in Baghdad.

Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq, said the mob violated "the tenets of all religions including Islam as one of the foundations of civilized society."

Americans have become increasingly divided on whether the U.S. invasion of Iraq was the right move.

While surveys suggested three-quarters of Americans approved last spring during major combat, a CBS-New York Times poll last month suggested that 51 per cent thought it wasn't worth the loss of American lives, while 42 per cent did.

Peace activists, veterans and some military families stepped up their campaign to bring U.S. troops home with massive protests marking the one-year anniversary March 19.

Allegations that top officials exaggerated the threat posed by Iraq and criticism from a former anti-terrorism czar, who charged that Bush was dangerously obsessed with Saddam to the detriment of the war on terror, have fanned opposition.

The president was forced to call a public inquiry into why no weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq, but it will not report until next year, well after the election.
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Americans, confronted by shocking images of Iraq barbarism, reminded of Somalia
 
It was on the news all over Australia the past 2 days.

The most sickest thing about it is children were involved in the dismemberment and dragging.

This is the Sunni triangle were support for Saddam is still strong.

Even the most professional troops would be looking for some serious payback.

At least the faces of the murderers have been on all over the world, and maybe there is a slim chance that some can be rounded up.

These were US civvy contracters, and imagine the shock their families back in the USA have seen.

The entire incident is an ourage not only to the west, but mainstream Iraqis who want peace and their own democratic country. Lets hope their unnecessary deaths will not be in vain.

Meanwhile the US body count as of a few hrs back has risen to 600. 5 GI‘s KIA. March 04 was the most deadliest month for the US since last yr.

Regards,

Wes
 
Sometimes I think Machiavelli had it right with "It is better to be feared than loved"

They should send an Arc-Light over Fallujah to send the message that for every American killed by insurgents, the debt will be repaid 100 times.

The kicker was that these guys were protecting an organization trying to rebuild Iraq. Nice show of appreciation, ****ing savages.
 
Originally posted by Wesley H. Allen, CD:
[qb]

The most sickest thing about it is children were involved in the dismemberment and dragging.

[/qb]
Yea it‘s pretty sickening to hear about something like this. Especially the fact how children were involved. What kind of parents could teach their kids that kind of hatred?

It sort of reminds me of the footage from Palestine (I think) after 9.11. When they showed people in the street dancing and cheering about the attacks. It seemed like there were just as many children amongst the people celebrating as adults.
 
I have an idea.

One on hand you have Iraq. Where there trying to help, trying to stop mass murders, tourture and terrorisim from happening, yet their killing not olny soldiers but civilians. Ours and their own.

On the other hand you have Israel bombing the crap out of palastine, palastine sending in their little bombers to the market. Killing soldiers and civilians all around.

Iraq is pretty big, why not move people from israel or palastine (whoever loses a round of paper rock scissors, i dont like either country) and send them to live in iraq theres lots of room there. If the natives start getting restless we will throw up a big wall.

We‘ll get canada to pay for the wall and instead of using workers and materials from iraq we‘ll pay 5 times the price to send the workers from canada using canadian materials (again at 5 times the cost) to make it.

Has someone already thought of this???
 
Holy ****! Infanteer lost it!
So you confirm, that you are a Nazi sympathizer and white supremascist?
 
I would like to comment on this situation but I must reserve my thoughts, for what I would like to say about these people would surely get me kicked off this site :rage: :evil: :skull:
 
Arc lite might be much, id go for a specter gunship the footage is much cooler on CNN.
Then its on to poland.
 
I‘m not an expert on the CCC (Criminal Code of Canada), but it sure looked a lot like an offence we call something like "... indignity to a dead body/corpse ..."

However, I‘ll suggest the American commander displayed remarkable restraint - the four civilians were already dead - losing more lives to retrieve their bodies would have been a steep price to pay, whereas now world opinion (at least in some circles) may sway slightly after this display of barbarism.

I admit - not terribly deep/philosophical - just off the cuff musing.
 
Holy ****! Infanteer lost it!
So you confirm, that you are a Nazi sympathizer and white supremascist?
Your comment assumes facts not in evidence. In fact, Infanteer said:

Sometimes I think Machiavelli had it right with "It is better to be feared than loved"

They should send an Arc-Light over Fallujah to send the message that for every American killed by insurgents, the debt will be repaid 100 times.

The kicker was that these guys were protecting an organization trying to rebuild Iraq. Nice show of appreciation, ****ing savages.
Keep in mind that Machiavelli was a medieval prince, who understood how you wield power over uncivilized barbarians. Since this is what they are dealing with in Fallujah <sp?>, and not all of Iraq, this approach seems the one that is likely to be most effective. Notice how the Balkans wars started up only after the threat of Russian retaliation was removed by the breakup of the Soviet Union? It means the children behave only so long as there are grown ups around.

Now, given that they aren‘t our kids, and we don‘t stand to benefit much by turning them into responsible adults you gotta wonder why the West even bothers...but given that we *are* bothering, then they have to realize that WE hold the whip hand, and that they aren‘t too old to be given a spanking.

They are 12th century savages. They act like it too. Why beat around the bush about it?

Judging by your post, you seem to believe that there are no objective standards by which one can judge an uncivilized barbarian, and that to make that observation you need to be a racist, Nazi sympathizer. That‘s an interesting point, but you haven‘t supported that either.

"It is not wise to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener."
 
There is nothing to say in Infanteer‘s commnents about being a NAZI supporter.

Sadly in today‘s war on terror, and being political correct, we cant just go do something like carpet bomb this city of 500,000 people.

Remember the RCAF along with other allied forces bombed Dresden in Germany killing over 40,000 people in just one night, many who were burnt to ashes from the fire storms caused from the indendiary bombs, so hang up the NAZI accusations. In that war both sides used terror bombings to which each claimed success.

I will agree that they are ‘godless‘ savages doing what they did, and chalk up another peaceful action by a so called peaceful religion!
Another classic example of 13th century mentality with these people in a world of 21st century technology.

Personally, it would not bother me if the whole ME was the worlds biggest ‘glass‘ K-mart parking lot, as I view the whole lot as one giant and dangerous threat.

I can understand the frustration, and just imagine hwo you‘d feel if you were there seeing the charred remains of Canadians hanging from that bridge. Not a very nice thought, is it.

Regrads,

Wes
 
Yes Wes, lets wipe the entire region off the face of the map, that‘ll sure show everyone who the savages are.
 
the americans should nuke the sunni triangle then pave it.....i don;t think they can rebuild iraq,this is only going to get worse,i think there going to be there along time.hope im wrong
 
Do you think a nuke wil solve the problem? You just made 3 milion martyrs and set back any chance of having any degree of peace in Iraq not to mention the damage it would do to the US relations with other nations the world over. Any state that possess nukes will figure if the US can use nukes in their problem areas and then they can as well. Not a briliant solution.
 
In "From Beirut to Jerusalem" Thomas Freidman talks about the way that Hafez Al-Assad dealt with the Muslim Brotherhood in Hama. Basically he shelled the city for 3 week and then sent the tanks in to deal with whatever was left. Freidman refers to this as "Hama Rules".

The Americans cannot afford to play by Hama Rules. It‘s pretty hard to play the good guy to the Iraqi people if you are taking a page out of Hafez Al-Assad‘s playbook. The American public will not stand for it. America‘s allies will not stand for it, and most certainly those Muslim countries that are friendly/cordial to the US will not stand for it. Lastly, the Iraqis are going to see right through the ideals that the US is trying to espouse in Iraq as a result of such an action.

The attacks were barbaric to the extreme. But to impose mass retaliation on a city is not going to solve the problem of it never happening again. Infact it will probably ensure that it will happen again, more frequently than it did before.

The Coalition Occupation cannot compare with the terror that the Muhabarat and the various other agencies of Ba‘athist rule imposed on Iraq. The person who is planning and executing these attacks sees this as a weakness on the part of the Occupation.
 
Muslim cleric in Fallujah condemns mutilation of 4 Americans‘ bodies
at 13:00 on April 2, 2004, EST.
HAMZA HENDAWI




FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) - At weekly prayers on Friday, a cleric condemned the mutilation of four slain American contractors in this conservative city, but did not criticize the killings. The U.S. military announced the combat deaths of a soldier and a marine.

In the capital, a roadside bomb killed an American soldier and wounded another early Friday in the city‘s Mansour district. A U.S. marine also died as a result of hostile action west of the capital a day earlier, the military said. The marine was killed in Anbar province, of which Fallujah is the most populous city.

Near the northern city of Kirkuk, three people were killed after a bomb they were planting exploded prematurely on Friday, police said.

The three were planting the bomb at the entrance to a town hall in Riyadh, about 25 kilometres west of Kirkuk, police Col. Iyad al-Jabouri said. Earlier, police had said a suicide bomber detonated explosives at the town hall entrance, killing himself and two other people.

A police official in Kirkuk also said earlier that U.S. soldiers had been in the town hall, but al-Jabouri said no soldiers were in the building.

In Fallujah, Sheik Fawzi Nameq addressed 600 worshippers gathered at the Hmood al-Mahmood Mosque, which is opposite the mayor‘s office and a few blocks from the scene of the deadly ambush Wednesday.

"Islam does not condone the mutilation of the bodies of the dead," the cleric said.

"Why do you want to bring destruction to our city? Why do you want to bring humiliation to the faithful? My brothers, wisdom is required here," said Nameq, who refrained from making a judgment on the killings. Clerics in Fallujah strongly oppose the U.S.-led occupation and often use sermons to criticize American authority.

The charred remains of the four Americans were dragged through the streets for hours after insurgents ambushed their vehicles at the heart of Fallujah. Two of the corpses were hung from a bridge as people beat them with shoes and a pole. Iraqi police eventually collected their remains at the request of American troops.

Senior Fallujah cleric Sheik Khalid Ahmed had said that Muslim preachers in mosques across the city would tell their followers in Friday sermons that the mutilation of the bodies was wrong. He did not say whether they would condemn the killings.

"Prophet Muhammad prohibited even the mutilation of a dead, mad dog and he considered such a thing as religiously forbidden. What happened in Fallujah is a distortion of Islamic principles and it is forbidden in Islam," he said.

Brig.-Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy chief of U.S. military operations in Iraq, pledged to hunt down those who carried out the killings, but said clashes could be avoided if Fallujah city officials arrest those responsible for the murders.

"If they were to deliver these people to the criminal justice system, we will come back in and start the rebuilding of Fallujah. That is their choice," he said.

There was no sign of a U.S. military buildup around Fallujah on Friday.

A Fallujah city council member, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the council issued a statement Thursday "condemning the mutilation of the bodies because it contradicts the teachings of Islam," but he did not say whether a decision was made to take action against those responsible for the killings.

Police on Friday manned regular roadside checkpoints and there was no sign of U.S. troops in or around the city, where a mood of defiance and resolve remained despite the possibility of U.S. military retaliation.

However, those living on the city‘s outskirts reported some families had left their homes for the safety of relatives‘ dwellings deep inside the city.

Traffic in the city was heavy, with traffic wardens joined at major intersections by members of the Iraqi Civil Defence Corps, a security force set up by the U.S. military to help in the fight against the insurgency. Many shops were open.

"Islam bans what was done to the bodies, but the Americans are as brutal as the youths who burned and mutilated the bodies," said Mahdi Ahmed Saleh, 61, a retired primary school principal who now runs a grocery store.

U.S. commanders defended their decision not to send forces into Fallujah on Wednesday to retrieve the bodies.

Kimmitt said U.S. forces didn‘t respond for fear of ambushes and the possibility that insurgents would use civilians as human shields. "A pre-emptive attack into the city could have taken a bad situation and made it even worse," he said.

"We are not going to do a pell-mell rush into the city. It will be deliberate, it will be precise and it will be overwhelming," he said. "We will re-establish control of that city. ... It will be at the time and place of our choosing."

Fallujah has been the scene of some of the worst anti-U.S. violence since the beginning of the U.S.-led occupation nearly a year ago. The insurgents appear to enjoy the support - or at least acquiescence - of a significant part of the population.

Late Thursday, gunmen fired on two police cars in the city of Baqouba, 50 kilometres northeast of Baghdad, killing three officers and wounding two, according to Loua‘ie Adel, an official at the city‘s general hospital.
 
Thanks Che. If you are so much in love with the region, why dont you go back?

Regards,

Wes
 
hey ex dragoon i just seen those pictures of them bodies hangin from the bridge,makes me pissed,theres never been a real peace in the middle east,and i don‘t think were goin to see it in are time.those contractors were there to help rebuild there infastructure. so much for that eh,.and after seein those pictures i don‘t care how many martyrs they make//// :fifty:
 
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