- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
More new protests.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090709/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090709/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election
Iran Super Thread- Merged
- Thread starter JasonH
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 64
- Points
- 530
The hardline approach is losing support within the regime and amongst the population as a whole. Today is the 10 Year Anniversary of The Iranian Student Protests of July, 1999 and thousands were in the streets protesting the regime.Ironic.
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 12
- Points
- 430
Iran 'security state' lambasted
Iran Protesters Take to Streets Despite Threats, NY Times
Iran learns from past to crush dissent
Iran police tear gas protesters
G8 warning on Iran crackdown
G8 leaders are "seriously concerned" about the "appalling events" after Iran's elections,
US President Barack Obama said as the summit closed. He said the global leaders were
also "deeply troubled" by Iran's nuclear programme. Iran denies claims it is trying to
build a nuclear bomb. Mr Obama rebuffed suggestions that the summit had fallen short
in failing to agree fresh sanctions in Iran.
The G8 leaders said they would review Iran's progress in September. A joint declaration
from the summit in L'Aquila, Italy, said that media restrictions and the detention of foreign
nationals by Iran was "unacceptable".
Iran has recently released eight of nine British embassy staff that it arrested and accused
of spying during protests against the alleged rigging of presidential elections last month.
But one Briton and a French language teacher, Clotilde Reiss, 23, remain in Iranian custody.
On Friday, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner called for her release and said
espionage accusations against her were "stupid".
Israel 'not alone'
The G8's joint declaration warned Tehran to comply with UN resolutions calling for a freeze
on its uranium enrichment activities - a process which can be used to make material for a
nuclear bomb - "without further delay." Speaking on Thursday, French President Nicolas
Sarkozy warned that a unilateral Israeli military strike on Iran's nuclear facilities would
be an "absolute catastrophe". But he reassured Israel that it was "not alone".
Mr Sarkozy threatened further sanctions against Iran if it failed to respond to US overtures
for talks on its nuclear activities.
Mr Obama said the international community would not wait "indefinitely" for Iran to comply
with its demands.
The joint declaration said the leaders would "take stock" of whether Iran had complied with
demands for a freeze on its nuclear activities at the G20 meeting in Pittsburgh in the US in
September. "Between August and September it's for them to decide how they want things
to evolve. Pittsburgh is the date," said Mr Sarkozy.
The summit follows pledges earlier this week by the US and Russia to cut their stockpiles
of nuclear weapons.
Mr Obama is planning an international conference on nuclear proliferation in March 2010.
Iran Protesters Take to Streets Despite Threats, NY Times
Iran learns from past to crush dissent
Iran police tear gas protesters
G8 warning on Iran crackdown
G8 leaders are "seriously concerned" about the "appalling events" after Iran's elections,
US President Barack Obama said as the summit closed. He said the global leaders were
also "deeply troubled" by Iran's nuclear programme. Iran denies claims it is trying to
build a nuclear bomb. Mr Obama rebuffed suggestions that the summit had fallen short
in failing to agree fresh sanctions in Iran.
The G8 leaders said they would review Iran's progress in September. A joint declaration
from the summit in L'Aquila, Italy, said that media restrictions and the detention of foreign
nationals by Iran was "unacceptable".
Iran has recently released eight of nine British embassy staff that it arrested and accused
of spying during protests against the alleged rigging of presidential elections last month.
But one Briton and a French language teacher, Clotilde Reiss, 23, remain in Iranian custody.
On Friday, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner called for her release and said
espionage accusations against her were "stupid".
Israel 'not alone'
The G8's joint declaration warned Tehran to comply with UN resolutions calling for a freeze
on its uranium enrichment activities - a process which can be used to make material for a
nuclear bomb - "without further delay." Speaking on Thursday, French President Nicolas
Sarkozy warned that a unilateral Israeli military strike on Iran's nuclear facilities would
be an "absolute catastrophe". But he reassured Israel that it was "not alone".
Mr Sarkozy threatened further sanctions against Iran if it failed to respond to US overtures
for talks on its nuclear activities.
Mr Obama said the international community would not wait "indefinitely" for Iran to comply
with its demands.
The joint declaration said the leaders would "take stock" of whether Iran had complied with
demands for a freeze on its nuclear activities at the G20 meeting in Pittsburgh in the US in
September. "Between August and September it's for them to decide how they want things
to evolve. Pittsburgh is the date," said Mr Sarkozy.
The summit follows pledges earlier this week by the US and Russia to cut their stockpiles
of nuclear weapons.
Mr Obama is planning an international conference on nuclear proliferation in March 2010.
- Reaction score
- 35
- Points
- 560
More violent repression:
The 9th of July, the 18th of Tir
Posted By Michael Ledeen On July 8, 2009 @ 2:01 pm In Uncategorized | 54 Comments
Maybe it’ll be a turning point. Maybe not. It’s the anniversary of the massacre of students in Iran ten years ago, when they defied their tyrants and called for freedom. There are certainly a lot of people around the world who will turn out to show their contempt for the Tehran regime. I can’t keep track of them all, but there should be significant turnouts in the Hague, Vienna, Rome, Paris, Washington, New York, Irvine and Santa Monica, Seattle and Hamburg…and more and more. In Iran itself, the regime’s opponents have called for “the biggest turnout yet,” totally silent, no posters or banners, just silence.
The silence of the demonstrations would be a counterpoint to the nightly chants from the rooftops and prisons of the nation. Chants of “Allah is great,” along with “Death to the Dictator.” If you believe the folks on Twitter, those chants have been louder with each passing night, despite the violence of the Basij and Revolutionary Guards, which ranges from snipers shooting from one rooftop to another, armed thugs breaking into homes to seize computers, cell phones and other communications devices, and arrest one or more family members. Meanwhile, horribly maimed bodies have been showing up all over the country. Some of the gouging of the bodies seems to have been done to remove all evidence of bullet holes, but whatever the “explanation,” the bloody savagery is well documented.
If you want some detail about the horrors inside Iranian hospitals, have a look at[1] Le Figaro’s account.
Over the objections of medical staff, bodies from the demonstrations were quickly moved elsewhere. “We believe they were transferred to the Baqiatollah military hospital or some other undisclosed location”, notes the doctor. Then, under the pretext of “organ donation”, all traces of bullets were removed from the bodies. “The parents were force to accept this if they wanted to retrieve the body for burial”.
And yet, the protest goes on. For the past three days, a general strike has been in effect, with significant results. Indeed, Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei preemptively admitted defeat when government offices and factories were shut down in the name of a religious observance. But the strikers only expanded the range of their actions, notably by shutting down electrical grids in several cities, including parts of Tehran. Great swathes of the nation were plunged into darkness. This sort of thing is likely to continue, whatever happens on the 9th.
Most of the protesters fear the worst, warning of snipers preparing to shoot into the crowds, and a massive buildup of security forces in Tehran. There are rumors about possible countermeasures from the demonstrators, but, like the stories about massive repression, these remain to be confirmed.
Meanwhile, there are continuous accounts of internal strife in the regime’s ranks. The London Guardian, in [2] a carefully worded account, tells us that the most powerful figure in the ongoing repression is Khamenei’s second son, Mojtaba. He is said to be particularly enraged by the British Government’s seizure of more than a billion dollars in London accounts, at least some of which belongs to him. No one would be surprised to find that the supreme leader was a very wealthy man, or that he had salted away some of his money outside Iran. Others have been moving their funds to more secure lands of late.
Mother Nature struck a humorous blow at President Ahmadinezhad last night, when he delivered a speech to the nation. As he spoke, a large insect buzzed him. He tried to maintain discipline, but, like a character in an old Ernie Kovacs routine, he could not stop his eyes from following the (fly? wasp?) around his head, and of course it all gave rise to anti-regime humor. Again, from Twitter: “spreading: The bug that bugged AN has now been arrested and soon to confess on state TV.”
Mother Nature is doing better than the so-called Western world, which apparently cannot even bring itself to punish the regime for violating all rules of civilized behavior. Obama, following his familiar pattern of allying himself with the tyrants rather than the democrats, doesn’t want new sanctions. I suppose he’s still hoping that the tyranny will prevail, and then he can make a wonderful deal with Khamenei pere. Or fils, as the case may be. Again, the best commentary comes from Twitter:
“Honduras Shouts Where are the BLUE Helmets! Burma Shouts release Aung San Suu Kyi ! Iran Shouts Where is our Vote!”
But Obama, he don’t say nothin’. Nor does Miss Hillary.
It seems so obvious to me that we should be helping the Iranian people–for both strategic and moral reasons–that I’m stunned at the insistence of so many smart people that we should do nothing. [3] Take George Will, for instance:
Some persons fault the president for not having more ambitious plans to somehow prompt and guide Iranians toward regime change. That outcome is sometimes advocated, and its consequences confidently anticipated, by neoconservatives whose certitude about feasibility resembles that which, decades ago, neoconservatism was born to counter.
Leave aside the historical riff on the origins of neoconservatism, and accept the uncertainty that all human efforts entail; that snooty dismissal of those who advocate peaceful regime change in Iran leaves me breathless. Tell it to Neda’s family George. Their daughter was executed, her father arrested and tortured, and they’ve been thrown out of their house. See how they appreciate your view from on high. Or try Iran’s neighbors, not your garden variety necons.
Meanwhile, [4] David Brooks has somehow convinced himself that Obama’s policies don’t really matter at all, because he’s so incredibly dignified:
Whatever policy differences people may have with him, we can all agree that he exemplifies reticence, dispassion and the other traits associated with dignity. The cultural effects of his presidency are not yet clear, but they may surpass his policy impact. He may revitalize the concept of dignity for a new generation and embody a new set of rules for self-mastery.
This reminds me of those journalists who were smitten with Mussolini in the twenties. Never mind the policies, he’s so charismatic!
I’m afraid David one day will have to answer for this infatuation with style over substance. And it won’t be pretty.
So let’s see what tomorrow brings.
UPDATE: 8 o’clock AM on Twitter, “Confirmed demonstrations tehran,shiraz,isfahan,ahwaz,babol,kerman,mashhad sari”
10 o’clock: “There are many unconfr. reports but all of them have 1 thing in common, they all report: People are growing in numbers”
I expect to get a telephone update in about an hour.
11 o’clock: We are still in the preliminary stage, according to the organizers. The main events are supposed to get going in another hour or two. There does not seem to be any shooting as yet, just tear gas, used by police and Revolutionary Guards forces. The demonstrators were prepared for tear gas, and continue to chant “Death to the dictator!” and “Death to the regime!”
This has long since ceased to be a protest over election results alone. More in an hour or so. I hope.
11:30: Here is something new. Twitter: “ Chaos. Distress messages from security forces being shot at requesting airborne support.” I see at least one other tweet about people shooting back at Basij and security forces, asking “who is shooting back?”
Is it true?
11:40: No, it probably is not true. I am told that security forces are acting frightened, as if they did not expect the large crowds to actually materialize, and they are shooting guns off in the air to try to scare off the demonstrators. The protesters have set off many fires in the streets (just what Tehran didn’t need, after the recent sandstorms). I think this is because some people believe the fires counteract the effects of tear gas, which is not correct. But anyway, the fires are burning.
Further–and this is a fairly up to date observation–the security forces are acting with unprecedented violence. The one-on-one attacks on the protesters are very brutal, the Basij are apparently tring to club them to death. Very ugly.
But the crowds are getting bigger.
11:50: Heh, from Twitter, “The situation is so bad, that the police are also attacking each other”
12:05: Cell phone nets are largely shut down now, at least in Tehran. And international calls are apparently being monitored very closely, so my updates may be slower.
There are more people saying that police are taking the side of the people, and defending them against the Basij. Can’t confirm it yet. And the violence still seems to be clubs, knives and tear gas, not guns.
12:33: You might want to follow the “live blog” [5] here (actually it seems to be a selection of Twitter messages).
Many new reports of people going after Basij, and some about a group called NIR which, it is said, is protecting people from security forces. I don’t know what that is, I’m trying to find out.
1 o’clock: Going swimming (I’m gettinga new hip next Monday, have to keep muscle strength up). Back in an hour or thereabouts.
2:30: It’s now eleven o’clock at night in Iran, and the chants from the rooftops and the prisons have resumed. And Khamenei sure hears them, “Death to the Dictator!” “Allah is Great!” What an ironic turnaround for this tyrant, who claims Divine sanction for his every thought and action, now to be threatened with death in the name of Allah.
Meanwhile, in an appalling act of appeasement, we released five Revolutionary Guards officers in Iraq, so that they could go to Tehran (and I doubt they will join the nocturnal chanters). I got it from Washingtontv, which somehow accepted the official Iranian misidentification of these guys:
Washington, 9 July (WashingtonTV)—The US military on Thursday handed over five Iranian diplomats (NOT! ML. The mullahs claimed they were dips, but they were IRGC officers) it has held for over two years to Iraqi authorities, Iraqi and Iranian officials said.
Iran’s ambassador to Baghdad, Hassan Kazemi Qomi, said that the five men were handed over to Iraq’s Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and that they would be handed over to the Iranian embassy in Baghdad after meeting al-Maliki, reports the official IRNA news agency.
The five diplomats, accused by the U.S. of funding and arming Shiite militants in Iraq, were arrested in the northern Iraqi city of Arbil on 11 January 2007.
The timing could hardly have been worse, and I’m sure the White House is roundly annoyed that this happened just on a day when the regime’s claws and fangs were so publicly exposed. The White House had set the release up for several days ago, but then the Almighty–in the form of intense sandstorms that made it impossible to fly in and out of Tehran–intervened.
If my information is correct–and I must say I have rarely had a story so vigorously denied by my own government–this is part of the deal for Roxana Saberi, who, you’ll remember, was miraculously released from an Iranian prison a couple of months ago. These IRGC commanders–with, I am told, hundreds of lower-level Iranian terror facilitators to come in the next days and weeks–were Iran’s price for freeing the American hostage.
I had inklings of this, and said so at the time. So I’ll take the opportunity to remind everyone who follows Iranian matters, that the mullahs’ hostages are never released for humanitarian motives. They are ransomed. The only question is the price.
When I asked some folks in the government, about a week ago, if we were preparing to release these people, they acted as if I’d asked if the Vice President were about to convert to Islam. But the releases have started.
It seems Obama overpaid, frankly. But then, we always do. Every president since Jimmy Carter has acted like a fool regarding Iran. So it’s business as usual.
4 o’clock: there are still clashes in Tehran, and probably other cities as well. It’s too early for an overall assessment of the “meaning” of the day, but some things are clear enough:
1. The uprising is not over. If anything, today’s turnout, discipline, and obviously improved tactics suggest that the opposition is stronger;
2. The regime hasn’t won any converts to its side. Rafsanjani’s daughter was reportedly in the crowd today, and I am still waiting for confirmation of the widely reported story that Mousavi appeared at a mosque and delivered a speech;
3. The opposition seems to have gained a tempo in this game. I’d expect the strikes to continue, and to intensify. I wonder if any American trade union is going to support its Iranian brothers and sisters;
4. Meanwhile, we’ve learned to accept [6] a simple truth about Khamenei. You gotta read it!
4:30 PM (last reliable information I’m going to have today, I think). Khamenei was told the following:
* massive demonstrations
* 3 killed
* 78 known as seriously wounded, many broken bones and ruptured internal organs, several may not make it; other wounded may have disappeared
* 600 arrests
SPECIAL MESSAGE FROM OPPOSITION: “please tell the world about these atrocities; people did nothing, silence, no provocations, no violence but fierce attacks by the government forces.”
And so we shall. Good night Chet. Good night David.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article printed from Faster, Please!: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen
URL to article: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2009/07/08/the-9th-of-july/
URLs in this post:
[1] Le Figaro’s account.: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeenSource:http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/07/06/01003-20
090706ARTFIG00225-des-medecins-iraniens-temoignent-de-la-repression-.php
[2] a carefully worded account: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/08/khamenei-son-controls-ira
n-militia
[3] Take George Will: http://townhall.com/columnists/GeorgeWill/2009/07/08/mcnamaras_mind?page=1
[4] David Brooks has somehow convinced himself: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/opinion/07brooks.html
[5] here : http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/
[6] a simple truth about Khamenei: http://www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11275710.html
The 9th of July, the 18th of Tir
Posted By Michael Ledeen On July 8, 2009 @ 2:01 pm In Uncategorized | 54 Comments
Maybe it’ll be a turning point. Maybe not. It’s the anniversary of the massacre of students in Iran ten years ago, when they defied their tyrants and called for freedom. There are certainly a lot of people around the world who will turn out to show their contempt for the Tehran regime. I can’t keep track of them all, but there should be significant turnouts in the Hague, Vienna, Rome, Paris, Washington, New York, Irvine and Santa Monica, Seattle and Hamburg…and more and more. In Iran itself, the regime’s opponents have called for “the biggest turnout yet,” totally silent, no posters or banners, just silence.
The silence of the demonstrations would be a counterpoint to the nightly chants from the rooftops and prisons of the nation. Chants of “Allah is great,” along with “Death to the Dictator.” If you believe the folks on Twitter, those chants have been louder with each passing night, despite the violence of the Basij and Revolutionary Guards, which ranges from snipers shooting from one rooftop to another, armed thugs breaking into homes to seize computers, cell phones and other communications devices, and arrest one or more family members. Meanwhile, horribly maimed bodies have been showing up all over the country. Some of the gouging of the bodies seems to have been done to remove all evidence of bullet holes, but whatever the “explanation,” the bloody savagery is well documented.
If you want some detail about the horrors inside Iranian hospitals, have a look at[1] Le Figaro’s account.
Over the objections of medical staff, bodies from the demonstrations were quickly moved elsewhere. “We believe they were transferred to the Baqiatollah military hospital or some other undisclosed location”, notes the doctor. Then, under the pretext of “organ donation”, all traces of bullets were removed from the bodies. “The parents were force to accept this if they wanted to retrieve the body for burial”.
And yet, the protest goes on. For the past three days, a general strike has been in effect, with significant results. Indeed, Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei preemptively admitted defeat when government offices and factories were shut down in the name of a religious observance. But the strikers only expanded the range of their actions, notably by shutting down electrical grids in several cities, including parts of Tehran. Great swathes of the nation were plunged into darkness. This sort of thing is likely to continue, whatever happens on the 9th.
Most of the protesters fear the worst, warning of snipers preparing to shoot into the crowds, and a massive buildup of security forces in Tehran. There are rumors about possible countermeasures from the demonstrators, but, like the stories about massive repression, these remain to be confirmed.
Meanwhile, there are continuous accounts of internal strife in the regime’s ranks. The London Guardian, in [2] a carefully worded account, tells us that the most powerful figure in the ongoing repression is Khamenei’s second son, Mojtaba. He is said to be particularly enraged by the British Government’s seizure of more than a billion dollars in London accounts, at least some of which belongs to him. No one would be surprised to find that the supreme leader was a very wealthy man, or that he had salted away some of his money outside Iran. Others have been moving their funds to more secure lands of late.
Mother Nature struck a humorous blow at President Ahmadinezhad last night, when he delivered a speech to the nation. As he spoke, a large insect buzzed him. He tried to maintain discipline, but, like a character in an old Ernie Kovacs routine, he could not stop his eyes from following the (fly? wasp?) around his head, and of course it all gave rise to anti-regime humor. Again, from Twitter: “spreading: The bug that bugged AN has now been arrested and soon to confess on state TV.”
Mother Nature is doing better than the so-called Western world, which apparently cannot even bring itself to punish the regime for violating all rules of civilized behavior. Obama, following his familiar pattern of allying himself with the tyrants rather than the democrats, doesn’t want new sanctions. I suppose he’s still hoping that the tyranny will prevail, and then he can make a wonderful deal with Khamenei pere. Or fils, as the case may be. Again, the best commentary comes from Twitter:
“Honduras Shouts Where are the BLUE Helmets! Burma Shouts release Aung San Suu Kyi ! Iran Shouts Where is our Vote!”
But Obama, he don’t say nothin’. Nor does Miss Hillary.
It seems so obvious to me that we should be helping the Iranian people–for both strategic and moral reasons–that I’m stunned at the insistence of so many smart people that we should do nothing. [3] Take George Will, for instance:
Some persons fault the president for not having more ambitious plans to somehow prompt and guide Iranians toward regime change. That outcome is sometimes advocated, and its consequences confidently anticipated, by neoconservatives whose certitude about feasibility resembles that which, decades ago, neoconservatism was born to counter.
Leave aside the historical riff on the origins of neoconservatism, and accept the uncertainty that all human efforts entail; that snooty dismissal of those who advocate peaceful regime change in Iran leaves me breathless. Tell it to Neda’s family George. Their daughter was executed, her father arrested and tortured, and they’ve been thrown out of their house. See how they appreciate your view from on high. Or try Iran’s neighbors, not your garden variety necons.
Meanwhile, [4] David Brooks has somehow convinced himself that Obama’s policies don’t really matter at all, because he’s so incredibly dignified:
Whatever policy differences people may have with him, we can all agree that he exemplifies reticence, dispassion and the other traits associated with dignity. The cultural effects of his presidency are not yet clear, but they may surpass his policy impact. He may revitalize the concept of dignity for a new generation and embody a new set of rules for self-mastery.
This reminds me of those journalists who were smitten with Mussolini in the twenties. Never mind the policies, he’s so charismatic!
I’m afraid David one day will have to answer for this infatuation with style over substance. And it won’t be pretty.
So let’s see what tomorrow brings.
UPDATE: 8 o’clock AM on Twitter, “Confirmed demonstrations tehran,shiraz,isfahan,ahwaz,babol,kerman,mashhad sari”
10 o’clock: “There are many unconfr. reports but all of them have 1 thing in common, they all report: People are growing in numbers”
I expect to get a telephone update in about an hour.
11 o’clock: We are still in the preliminary stage, according to the organizers. The main events are supposed to get going in another hour or two. There does not seem to be any shooting as yet, just tear gas, used by police and Revolutionary Guards forces. The demonstrators were prepared for tear gas, and continue to chant “Death to the dictator!” and “Death to the regime!”
This has long since ceased to be a protest over election results alone. More in an hour or so. I hope.
11:30: Here is something new. Twitter: “ Chaos. Distress messages from security forces being shot at requesting airborne support.” I see at least one other tweet about people shooting back at Basij and security forces, asking “who is shooting back?”
Is it true?
11:40: No, it probably is not true. I am told that security forces are acting frightened, as if they did not expect the large crowds to actually materialize, and they are shooting guns off in the air to try to scare off the demonstrators. The protesters have set off many fires in the streets (just what Tehran didn’t need, after the recent sandstorms). I think this is because some people believe the fires counteract the effects of tear gas, which is not correct. But anyway, the fires are burning.
Further–and this is a fairly up to date observation–the security forces are acting with unprecedented violence. The one-on-one attacks on the protesters are very brutal, the Basij are apparently tring to club them to death. Very ugly.
But the crowds are getting bigger.
11:50: Heh, from Twitter, “The situation is so bad, that the police are also attacking each other”
12:05: Cell phone nets are largely shut down now, at least in Tehran. And international calls are apparently being monitored very closely, so my updates may be slower.
There are more people saying that police are taking the side of the people, and defending them against the Basij. Can’t confirm it yet. And the violence still seems to be clubs, knives and tear gas, not guns.
12:33: You might want to follow the “live blog” [5] here (actually it seems to be a selection of Twitter messages).
Many new reports of people going after Basij, and some about a group called NIR which, it is said, is protecting people from security forces. I don’t know what that is, I’m trying to find out.
1 o’clock: Going swimming (I’m gettinga new hip next Monday, have to keep muscle strength up). Back in an hour or thereabouts.
2:30: It’s now eleven o’clock at night in Iran, and the chants from the rooftops and the prisons have resumed. And Khamenei sure hears them, “Death to the Dictator!” “Allah is Great!” What an ironic turnaround for this tyrant, who claims Divine sanction for his every thought and action, now to be threatened with death in the name of Allah.
Meanwhile, in an appalling act of appeasement, we released five Revolutionary Guards officers in Iraq, so that they could go to Tehran (and I doubt they will join the nocturnal chanters). I got it from Washingtontv, which somehow accepted the official Iranian misidentification of these guys:
Washington, 9 July (WashingtonTV)—The US military on Thursday handed over five Iranian diplomats (NOT! ML. The mullahs claimed they were dips, but they were IRGC officers) it has held for over two years to Iraqi authorities, Iraqi and Iranian officials said.
Iran’s ambassador to Baghdad, Hassan Kazemi Qomi, said that the five men were handed over to Iraq’s Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and that they would be handed over to the Iranian embassy in Baghdad after meeting al-Maliki, reports the official IRNA news agency.
The five diplomats, accused by the U.S. of funding and arming Shiite militants in Iraq, were arrested in the northern Iraqi city of Arbil on 11 January 2007.
The timing could hardly have been worse, and I’m sure the White House is roundly annoyed that this happened just on a day when the regime’s claws and fangs were so publicly exposed. The White House had set the release up for several days ago, but then the Almighty–in the form of intense sandstorms that made it impossible to fly in and out of Tehran–intervened.
If my information is correct–and I must say I have rarely had a story so vigorously denied by my own government–this is part of the deal for Roxana Saberi, who, you’ll remember, was miraculously released from an Iranian prison a couple of months ago. These IRGC commanders–with, I am told, hundreds of lower-level Iranian terror facilitators to come in the next days and weeks–were Iran’s price for freeing the American hostage.
I had inklings of this, and said so at the time. So I’ll take the opportunity to remind everyone who follows Iranian matters, that the mullahs’ hostages are never released for humanitarian motives. They are ransomed. The only question is the price.
When I asked some folks in the government, about a week ago, if we were preparing to release these people, they acted as if I’d asked if the Vice President were about to convert to Islam. But the releases have started.
It seems Obama overpaid, frankly. But then, we always do. Every president since Jimmy Carter has acted like a fool regarding Iran. So it’s business as usual.
4 o’clock: there are still clashes in Tehran, and probably other cities as well. It’s too early for an overall assessment of the “meaning” of the day, but some things are clear enough:
1. The uprising is not over. If anything, today’s turnout, discipline, and obviously improved tactics suggest that the opposition is stronger;
2. The regime hasn’t won any converts to its side. Rafsanjani’s daughter was reportedly in the crowd today, and I am still waiting for confirmation of the widely reported story that Mousavi appeared at a mosque and delivered a speech;
3. The opposition seems to have gained a tempo in this game. I’d expect the strikes to continue, and to intensify. I wonder if any American trade union is going to support its Iranian brothers and sisters;
4. Meanwhile, we’ve learned to accept [6] a simple truth about Khamenei. You gotta read it!
4:30 PM (last reliable information I’m going to have today, I think). Khamenei was told the following:
* massive demonstrations
* 3 killed
* 78 known as seriously wounded, many broken bones and ruptured internal organs, several may not make it; other wounded may have disappeared
* 600 arrests
SPECIAL MESSAGE FROM OPPOSITION: “please tell the world about these atrocities; people did nothing, silence, no provocations, no violence but fierce attacks by the government forces.”
And so we shall. Good night Chet. Good night David.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article printed from Faster, Please!: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen
URL to article: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2009/07/08/the-9th-of-july/
URLs in this post:
[1] Le Figaro’s account.: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeenSource:http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/07/06/01003-20
090706ARTFIG00225-des-medecins-iraniens-temoignent-de-la-repression-.php
[2] a carefully worded account: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/08/khamenei-son-controls-ira
n-militia
[3] Take George Will: http://townhall.com/columnists/GeorgeWill/2009/07/08/mcnamaras_mind?page=1
[4] David Brooks has somehow convinced himself: http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/opinion/07brooks.html
[5] here : http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/
[6] a simple truth about Khamenei: http://www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11275710.html
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
More recent dissent coming from another source again gets the spotlight:
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
More renewed unrest.
- Reaction score
- 5,970
- Points
- 1,260
As one who finds nuclear war quite “thinkable” I found this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s National Post, interesting:
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1802732
First: There is, it seems to me a fair case to be made that the possession of nuclear weapons actually makes countries more responsible. But I’m sure few Israelis expect Iran to be less of a threat even if there is no evidence to suggest that having nuclear weapons increases aggression.
Second: No matter which set of options Israel pursues the Arabs and Persians lose, big time. There is no “winning scenario” for the Arabs/Persians. If they attack they “earn” the universal and unreserved condemnation of the entire civilized world, even France, and ofmuch some of the less civilized world, too. Their oil will not help because China, Europe and Japan, supported by America, will move in to take whatever oil is not covered by a blanket of radiation. If they attack then we can be reasonably certain that, facing that which even Hitler could not accomplish, the Israelis will retaliate: massively and broadly. Amman, Baghdad, Cairo and Riyadh will likely suffer the same fate as Tehran. If the Israelis attack pre-emptively then the Arabs still lose because they will lack the political will and military acumen to band together and fight (and win) a conventional war against Israel. They will fail because they fear one another just as much – sometimes even more – than they fear Israel and none will commit enough resources to the “common cause” to achieve a victory.
Third: This is a regional, not a global, problem. Israel has no more, not less, right to exist than does, say, Angola or Botswana or Canada, for that matter. The Jews have a “claim” on Christendom’s conscience, Israel does not.
My guess: Israel will not launch a pre-emptive strike. Iran will attack, but not massively enough. Israel will retaliate: massively, broadly and cruelly. Muslims all over the world will suffer, for generations, for Iran’s folly. They will be despised and will suffer state sanctioned discrimination all around the world. Arab/Persian Islam, as a major, respectable world religion, will cease to exist; Islam will become an East Asian (Indonesian/Malaysian) religion that will shake off almost all of Islam’s Arab/Persian roots and absolutely all of its Arab/Persian cultural artefacts.
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1802732
First: There is, it seems to me a fair case to be made that the possession of nuclear weapons actually makes countries more responsible. But I’m sure few Israelis expect Iran to be less of a threat even if there is no evidence to suggest that having nuclear weapons increases aggression.
Second: No matter which set of options Israel pursues the Arabs and Persians lose, big time. There is no “winning scenario” for the Arabs/Persians. If they attack they “earn” the universal and unreserved condemnation of the entire civilized world, even France, and of
Third: This is a regional, not a global, problem. Israel has no more, not less, right to exist than does, say, Angola or Botswana or Canada, for that matter. The Jews have a “claim” on Christendom’s conscience, Israel does not.
My guess: Israel will not launch a pre-emptive strike. Iran will attack, but not massively enough. Israel will retaliate: massively, broadly and cruelly. Muslims all over the world will suffer, for generations, for Iran’s folly. They will be despised and will suffer state sanctioned discrimination all around the world. Arab/Persian Islam, as a major, respectable world religion, will cease to exist; Islam will become an East Asian (Indonesian/Malaysian) religion that will shake off almost all of Islam’s Arab/Persian roots and absolutely all of its Arab/Persian cultural artefacts.
- Reaction score
- 35
- Points
- 560
Multiple factors are now in play that make this difficult to call. Do the Iranians actually have enough enriched Uranium or Plutonium to make a weapon? Do they have the political will to strike (I suspect that there is a fairly large block of mullahs and politicians who are not ready to become radioactive vapour for the destruction of Israel). Will the reform movement topple the Theocracy, and if so, what will replace it?
We might start asking ourselves not if we need to send military forces to attack Iran, but should we be prepared to send forces to stabilize Iran in the chaos following the fall of the Theocracy. (If you thought Al Qada in Iraq or the Taliban were a bad scene, imagine stabilization ops against hordes of Basji and Revolutionary Guards cells determined to reimpose their vision on Iranian society).
We might start asking ourselves not if we need to send military forces to attack Iran, but should we be prepared to send forces to stabilize Iran in the chaos following the fall of the Theocracy. (If you thought Al Qada in Iraq or the Taliban were a bad scene, imagine stabilization ops against hordes of Basji and Revolutionary Guards cells determined to reimpose their vision on Iranian society).
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
Speaking of Iranian nuclear power:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99GET3G0&show_article=1
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99GET3G0&show_article=1
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
I hope Xiang comes here soon and explains all this war mongering. It actually seems like we should be concerned about Iran.
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 12
- Points
- 430
Iranian Cleric Is Seeking the Mantle of Khomeini
WASHINGTON — During his decades in Iranian politics, Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani
has been praised as a pragmatist, criticized as spineless, accused of corruption and
dismissed as a has-been.
Now, in assailing the government’s handling of last month’s disputed presidential election,
Mr. Rafsanjani, a 75-year-old cleric and former president, has cast himself in a new light :
as a player with the authority to interpret the ideals of Iran’s 30-year-old Islamic republic.
Using his perch as a designated prayer leader on Friday to deliver the speech of a lifetime,
Mr. Rafsanjani abandoned his customary caution to demand that the government release
those arrested in recent weeks, ease restrictions on the media and eradicate the “doubt”
the Iranian people have about the election result. And he implicitly challenged the authority
of the country’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, to make decisions without seeking
consensus.
Behind the words was the assertion that for the Islamic republic to survive, it must restore
its legitimacy, reaffirm its republican institutions and find a formula for governing.
To establish his own legitimacy, Mr. Rafsanjani evoked his long political history. “What you
are hearing now is from a person who has been with the revolution second by second from
the very beginning of the struggle,” he said, adding, “We are talking about 60 years ago up
until today.” He recalled that his mentor, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the father of the 1979
revolution, said that the “people’s will” must be done, and in this case, he said, the trust of
the people had been broken.
Mr. Rafsanjani was a supporter of the opposition candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, during the
campaign, and by speaking out on Friday he seemed to be moving closer to Mr. Moussavi as
a public symbol of opposition. But Mr. Rafsanjani also took care not to directly deny the
government’s declaration that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had won the election.
In delivering his sermon, Mr. Rafsanjani was defying a government campaign to silence him,
in which senior officials have interspersed personal attacks with veiled threats. That campaign
continued Saturday, when conservative figures criticized his speech. He was also essentially
usurping the institutional role of Ayatollah Khamenei.
“This was a speech Khamenei should have given,” said Farideh Farhi, a political scientist at the
University of Hawaii. “That’s his designated role as the spiritual and political guide, to be above
the fray. But Khamenei is probably too insecure and has too much to lose. He took sides.
Rafsanjani rose to the occasion.” Still, it would be wrong to say that Mr. Rafsanjani has suddenly
become a proponent of justice, human rights and freedom.
In the summer of 1999, after all, when the government crushed student demonstrations at Tehran
University, he delivered a harsh sermon in the same place as he did on Friday. Back then, he blamed
“enemies of the revolution” and “sources outside the country” for the unrest. He praised the use of
force by the state. During much of his earlier eight-year presidency, many Iranians were executed,
including political dissidents, drug offenders, Communists, Kurds, Bahais, even clerics.
Politically, Mr. Rafsanjani was humiliated twice: in 2000 when he ran for Parliament and came in 30th
and last place in Tehran (amid charges of ballot fraud in his favor), and again in 2005, when he performed
dismally in his bid to regain the presidency. But unlike many political figures, and certainly unlike most
clerics, Mr. Rafsanjani is the consummate politician. He refuses to abandon the political battlefield in a
country in which silence in the face of defeat is the norm. He also knows how to shift gears. A campaign
photograph in the 2000 campaign showed him without his turban. He must have thought that a clerical
uniform had become a liability.
Mr. Rafsanjani’s bold public stance is not without risks. Members of his family have been briefly detained
during this period of turmoil, and the government could use his record, and his family’s financial dealings,
to discredit him.
For his part, Ayatollah Khamenei delivered his own notable sermon four weeks ago, in which he embraced
the victory of Mr. Ahmadinejad, called the election proof of the people’s trust in the system and threatened
more violence if demonstrations continued.
Mr. Rafsanjani struggled to woo the center; the ayatollah stuck to his base of support on the right.
Mr. Rafsanjani spoke about the Prophet Muhammad’s style of governing in Medina, with its emphasis
on listening to the people, and treating them with respect and “Islamic kindness.” He used a pragmatic
argument in calling for the release of those who have been arrested. “Let’s not allow our enemies to
reprimand and laugh at us and hatch plots against us just because a few certain people are in prison,”
Mr. Rafsanjani said.
Ayatollah Khamenei, by contrast, in his sermon railed about the enemies of the prophet and the foreign
enemies both inside and outside Iran. “The violators,” as he called them, are “the ill-wishers, mercenaries
and agents of the Western intelligence services and the Zionists.” Ironically, his speech sounded much like
the one Mr. Rafsanjani gave after the disturbances a decade ago.
From the early days of the revolution, Mr. Rafsanjani has favored pragmatism over religious absolutism.
After the seizure of the American Embassy in Tehran in 1979, Iran’s leaders demanded the return of the
exiled Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi as a condition of the release of the 52 American hostages. Mr.
Rafsanjani had a better idea: “If the shah dies, that would help,” he said to this reporter in an interview
in 1980. (Shortly afterward, the shah died of complications caused by cancer.)
In 1986, after the Reagan administration’s secret American arms sales to Iran were disclosed, Mr. Rafsanjani,
then the speaker of Parliament, used his Friday sermon to explain why. He said Iran needed to acquire
weapons to fight Iraq, even if it meant dealing with the enemy, the United States. Later, he was credited
with helping to persuade Ayatollah Khomeini to end the eight-year war.
A state-builder, Mr. Rafsanjani even set aside religion to rehabilitate the image of Persepolis, the site of the
2,500-year-old Persian empire, saying, “Our people must know that they are not without a history.” This time,
he did not lay out goals. He did not say whether he hoped to get the election results overturned or merely to
convince the country to make peace with those results.
“He doesn’t address the basic problem for the opposition: that they have been dealt with brutally on the
streets and that this was a manipulated election,” said Shaul Bakhash, professor of Middle Eastern history
at George Mason University.
In his 1963 book about miracles, Mr. Rafsanjani bragged that he was saved from an assassin’s bullet because
of his “revolutionary speed” and his willingness to “punch those who say nonsense.” Given the fluid nature of
Iranian politics, it would be foolish to predict whether he can make miracles today.
WASHINGTON — During his decades in Iranian politics, Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani
has been praised as a pragmatist, criticized as spineless, accused of corruption and
dismissed as a has-been.
Now, in assailing the government’s handling of last month’s disputed presidential election,
Mr. Rafsanjani, a 75-year-old cleric and former president, has cast himself in a new light :
as a player with the authority to interpret the ideals of Iran’s 30-year-old Islamic republic.
Using his perch as a designated prayer leader on Friday to deliver the speech of a lifetime,
Mr. Rafsanjani abandoned his customary caution to demand that the government release
those arrested in recent weeks, ease restrictions on the media and eradicate the “doubt”
the Iranian people have about the election result. And he implicitly challenged the authority
of the country’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, to make decisions without seeking
consensus.
Behind the words was the assertion that for the Islamic republic to survive, it must restore
its legitimacy, reaffirm its republican institutions and find a formula for governing.
To establish his own legitimacy, Mr. Rafsanjani evoked his long political history. “What you
are hearing now is from a person who has been with the revolution second by second from
the very beginning of the struggle,” he said, adding, “We are talking about 60 years ago up
until today.” He recalled that his mentor, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the father of the 1979
revolution, said that the “people’s will” must be done, and in this case, he said, the trust of
the people had been broken.
Mr. Rafsanjani was a supporter of the opposition candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, during the
campaign, and by speaking out on Friday he seemed to be moving closer to Mr. Moussavi as
a public symbol of opposition. But Mr. Rafsanjani also took care not to directly deny the
government’s declaration that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had won the election.
In delivering his sermon, Mr. Rafsanjani was defying a government campaign to silence him,
in which senior officials have interspersed personal attacks with veiled threats. That campaign
continued Saturday, when conservative figures criticized his speech. He was also essentially
usurping the institutional role of Ayatollah Khamenei.
“This was a speech Khamenei should have given,” said Farideh Farhi, a political scientist at the
University of Hawaii. “That’s his designated role as the spiritual and political guide, to be above
the fray. But Khamenei is probably too insecure and has too much to lose. He took sides.
Rafsanjani rose to the occasion.” Still, it would be wrong to say that Mr. Rafsanjani has suddenly
become a proponent of justice, human rights and freedom.
In the summer of 1999, after all, when the government crushed student demonstrations at Tehran
University, he delivered a harsh sermon in the same place as he did on Friday. Back then, he blamed
“enemies of the revolution” and “sources outside the country” for the unrest. He praised the use of
force by the state. During much of his earlier eight-year presidency, many Iranians were executed,
including political dissidents, drug offenders, Communists, Kurds, Bahais, even clerics.
Politically, Mr. Rafsanjani was humiliated twice: in 2000 when he ran for Parliament and came in 30th
and last place in Tehran (amid charges of ballot fraud in his favor), and again in 2005, when he performed
dismally in his bid to regain the presidency. But unlike many political figures, and certainly unlike most
clerics, Mr. Rafsanjani is the consummate politician. He refuses to abandon the political battlefield in a
country in which silence in the face of defeat is the norm. He also knows how to shift gears. A campaign
photograph in the 2000 campaign showed him without his turban. He must have thought that a clerical
uniform had become a liability.
Mr. Rafsanjani’s bold public stance is not without risks. Members of his family have been briefly detained
during this period of turmoil, and the government could use his record, and his family’s financial dealings,
to discredit him.
For his part, Ayatollah Khamenei delivered his own notable sermon four weeks ago, in which he embraced
the victory of Mr. Ahmadinejad, called the election proof of the people’s trust in the system and threatened
more violence if demonstrations continued.
Mr. Rafsanjani struggled to woo the center; the ayatollah stuck to his base of support on the right.
Mr. Rafsanjani spoke about the Prophet Muhammad’s style of governing in Medina, with its emphasis
on listening to the people, and treating them with respect and “Islamic kindness.” He used a pragmatic
argument in calling for the release of those who have been arrested. “Let’s not allow our enemies to
reprimand and laugh at us and hatch plots against us just because a few certain people are in prison,”
Mr. Rafsanjani said.
Ayatollah Khamenei, by contrast, in his sermon railed about the enemies of the prophet and the foreign
enemies both inside and outside Iran. “The violators,” as he called them, are “the ill-wishers, mercenaries
and agents of the Western intelligence services and the Zionists.” Ironically, his speech sounded much like
the one Mr. Rafsanjani gave after the disturbances a decade ago.
From the early days of the revolution, Mr. Rafsanjani has favored pragmatism over religious absolutism.
After the seizure of the American Embassy in Tehran in 1979, Iran’s leaders demanded the return of the
exiled Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi as a condition of the release of the 52 American hostages. Mr.
Rafsanjani had a better idea: “If the shah dies, that would help,” he said to this reporter in an interview
in 1980. (Shortly afterward, the shah died of complications caused by cancer.)
In 1986, after the Reagan administration’s secret American arms sales to Iran were disclosed, Mr. Rafsanjani,
then the speaker of Parliament, used his Friday sermon to explain why. He said Iran needed to acquire
weapons to fight Iraq, even if it meant dealing with the enemy, the United States. Later, he was credited
with helping to persuade Ayatollah Khomeini to end the eight-year war.
A state-builder, Mr. Rafsanjani even set aside religion to rehabilitate the image of Persepolis, the site of the
2,500-year-old Persian empire, saying, “Our people must know that they are not without a history.” This time,
he did not lay out goals. He did not say whether he hoped to get the election results overturned or merely to
convince the country to make peace with those results.
“He doesn’t address the basic problem for the opposition: that they have been dealt with brutally on the
streets and that this was a manipulated election,” said Shaul Bakhash, professor of Middle Eastern history
at George Mason University.
In his 1963 book about miracles, Mr. Rafsanjani bragged that he was saved from an assassin’s bullet because
of his “revolutionary speed” and his willingness to “punch those who say nonsense.” Given the fluid nature of
Iranian politics, it would be foolish to predict whether he can make miracles today.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
Another update:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
Another update: Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei rejects the newly appointed vice-president of Ahmadinejad! And it seems from the updates below that there is now a major rift that has formed between Khamenei and Ahmadinejad because of this.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_politics
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_politics
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
A political power struggle in the making?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_politics
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_politics
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
And now Ahmadinejad caves in.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_politics
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_politics
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
So, question for Xiang (if he/she is still around)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_politics
Okay, so if this VP got binned because he was slightly pro-Israel, and the entire ruling class of Iran snapped when he got his post, is there any reason to believe that Iran doesn't want to see Israel destroyed as they have so clearly stated in the past? And since we all pretty much know that is the case, would not having nuclear weapons not be the best, most efficient way to make that happen?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_politics
Okay, so if this VP got binned because he was slightly pro-Israel, and the entire ruling class of Iran snapped when he got his post, is there any reason to believe that Iran doesn't want to see Israel destroyed as they have so clearly stated in the past? And since we all pretty much know that is the case, would not having nuclear weapons not be the best, most efficient way to make that happen?
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