International Infantry Capabilities

[matt45]

i was watching truth,duty,valour a couple of weeks ago and the canadian reserves were having a compitition againts the american army. the canadians beat the americans pants off.it wasent even close. which lead me to think does canada spend more money on training there troops and less on guns and do the americans spend more money of guns and less on training there troops?


matt45

 

[x-grunt]

Which episode was that?
On the other hand, a TDV episode last year also showed the Strathcona's at the Can-Am challenge losing the cup to a national guard outfit, I think it was the Idaho NG. So I guess it cuts both ways some times.

I honestly can't answer your questions, I just know that when i was in Fort Drum way back at the dawn of time, the guards units my unit interacted with weren't too impressive in the field, with the exception of their tac hel which was quite good. That was a long time ago though, and I'm sure a lot has changed. A lot of their reserve units now have been to Iraq, too.

 

[pbi]

i was watching truth,duty,valour a couple of weeks ago and the Canadian reserves were having a competition against the American army. the Canadians beat the Americans pants off.it wasn't even close. which lead me to think does Canada spend more money on training there troops and less on guns and do the Americans spend more money of guns and less on training there troops?


matt45

Don't compare the ARNG with the US Active Army: there are huge differences in readiness. Although, after the very heavy involvement of ARNG and USAR units in OIF/OEF, we will probably see that gap closed somewhat. So just because the readiness level of the ARNG may not have been that high in the past, do not extrapolate this to the entire US Army.

There is a fairly significant difference in annual days of training time put in by the average Canadian Army reserve soldiers (especially officers and senior NCOs) and that put in by ARNG units in normal peacetime training. While ARNG soldiers do their DP1 equivalent at the US Active Army school of their particular branch (we can't really do that due to the totally voluntary nature of Res service...), after that the average soldier is at the armoury or training centre for one unit training assembly per month, with some training in the summer. Compare this to the average Res soldier who is at the Armoury at least one night a week, one weekend a month, and for several weeks in the summer. As well, there are almost no Active Army personnel in the ARNG: fulltime jobs are generally carried out by AGR (Activated Guard/Reserve) who are roughly equivalent to our Class B or C Reservist duty. IMHO there is very little meaningful interchange between the Active Army and the ARNG, unlike our Army Res (or the USMCR) in which there are Regulars in the units and CBG HQs. Of course, many ARNG soldiers today have recent combat experience, so this shortfall is offset to a degree.

A big difference is in the manning of ARNG units: when the ARNG says "battalion", they mean a unit of 800 soldiers with the kit, not 100-120 folks with almost no kit as we find in most of our Res battalions. Surprisingly though, I have found that during the course of a normal training year, the ARNG trains at about the same level our Res does: the equivalent of MLOC 3/4. Higher level training takes place for NTC rotations or if   the unit is called up.

Now, as a result of OEF/OIF a lot of things are changing in the ARNG, so some of this may be OBE already.

Cheers

 

[Gunnerlove]

I wonder if the National Guard units ship everything that isn't bolted down to their battle schools every summer then hope it will be returned before Santa drops by?

Of course not that would be foolish.

 

[pbi]

I don't think so. For collective training, most of the gear is held at the states' MATES (Mobilization And Training Equipment Sites). For individual training, ARNG normally go to the relevant Active Army school, which has all its own gear. However, quite a bit of ARNG/USAR gear has been shipped overseas for OIF/OEF.

IMHO our complex and resource-intensive annual tasking system is a result of our inability (or refusal...) to properly man and equip our training centres, based partly on money and partly on the argument that if we permanently beef the TCs up for the summer spike, that gear and all those people will just sit idle all year. Personally, I think this reflects a lack of original thinking. IMHO it has alot more to do with that dreaded Canadian disease of "this is the way we've always done it so it must be right".

Cheers

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Hopefully, the stand up of CMTC in WATC will show us it can be done properly and it will filter through the rest of the CF training system. :

 

[Sgt.Mitoff]

Well two years ago i went with the royal highland fusiliers (reserve) to do Mout training to Frot Hood in texas, we trained with the 1st. Air Cav. regiment the famous one fro mthe movie "We were soldiers" starring mel gibson!! Anyways those guys were no reserve but we still put up a good fight. we were using the MILES gear for scoring hits and it was amazing how detailed the mout site was it had evrything from a school right down to a chapel (used as a sniper tower) and furniture i nsoe mof the rooms like desks and cupboards that you could hide in (something we found the hard way). Long story short, those americans were litteraly animals they were all like giant 400lb. of muscle. It would have probably taken 3 of us small canadian guys to knowc kone to the ground, thier downside was that they did not have much stamina and were breathing our dust the whole time while were doing some warm up jogging. We had problems with  jumping out of the black hawk helicopters but then again those guys do that everyday its what their unit is based on: helicopter drop ins, while most of us had never even been on a chopper before. other than that we kicked butt!!! except when me and a cpl. were about to clear a room this one time!! we threw in two T- flashes and stormed in gunz ablazing, then before i could utter the words "room clear" an american guy jumped out of a closet with his M4 on rock n' role mode and basiclly wpund have made swiss cheese out of us had this been a real situation with live rounds!! It happened so fast as if this guy had been parcticing this move sicne he was a kid. I'd haev to say this is the first tiem i really felt dead durign an exerscise!!

 

[48Highlander]

Well two years ago i went with the royal highland fusiliers (reserve) to do Mout training to Frot Hood in texas, we trained with the 1st. Air Cav. regiment the famous one fro mthe movie "We were soldiers" starring mel gibson!! Anyways those guys were no reserve but we still put up a good fight. we were using the MILES gear for scoring hits and it was amazing how detailed the mout site was it had evrything from a school right down to a chapel (used as a sniper tower) and furniture i nsoe mof the rooms like desks and cupboards that you could hide in (something we found the hard way). Long story short, those americans were litteraly animals they were all like giant 400lb. of muscle. It would have probably taken 3 of us small canadian guys to knowc kone to the ground, thier downside was that they did not have much stamina and were breathing our dust the whole time while were doing some warm up jogging. We had problems with   jumping out of the black hawk helicopters but then again those guys do that everyday its what their unit is based on: helicopter drop ins, while most of us had never even been on a chopper before. other than that we kicked butt!!! except when me and a cpl. were about to clear a room this one time!! we threw in two T- flashes and stormed in gunz ablazing, then before i could utter the words "room clear" an american guy jumped out of a closet with his M4 on rock n' role mode and basiclly wpund have made swiss cheese out of us had this been a real situation with live rounds!! It happened so fast as if this guy had been parcticing this move sicne he was a kid. I'd haev to say this is the first tiem i really felt dead durign an exerscise!!

I'm sorry...you ARE a cadet, right?  I'm finding this story somewhat hard to swallow...

 

[condor888000]

You're 18 with 7 years experience eh? Joined at what, 11?

 

[Scott]

Well two years ago i went with the royal highland fusiliers (reserve) to do Mout training to Frot Hood in texas, we trained with the 1st. Air Cav. regiment the famous one fro mthe movie "We were soldiers" starring mel gibson!! Anyways those guys were no reserve but we still put up a good fight. we were using the MILES gear for scoring hits and it was amazing how detailed the mout site was it had evrything from a school right down to a chapel (used as a sniper tower) and furniture i nsoe mof the rooms like desks and cupboards that you could hide in (something we found the hard way). Long story short, those americans were litteraly animals they were all like giant 400lb. of muscle. It would have probably taken 3 of us small canadian guys to knowc kone to the ground, thier downside was that they did not have much stamina and were breathing our dust the whole time while were doing some warm up jogging. We had problems with   jumping out of the black hawk helicopters but then again those guys do that everyday its what their unit is based on: helicopter drop ins, while most of us had never even been on a chopper before. other than that we kicked butt!!! except when me and a cpl. were about to clear a room this one time!! we threw in two T- flashes and stormed in gunz ablazing, then before i could utter the words "room clear" an american guy jumped out of a closet with his M4 on rock n' role mode and basiclly wpund have made swiss cheese out of us had this been a real situation with live rounds!! It happened so fast as if this guy had been parcticing this move sicne he was a kid. I'd haev to say this is the first tiem i really felt dead durign an exerscise!!

Harder still to swallow when you read this:

  The Field / Cadets / CIC / Re: What camps are you applying for in 2005--SEX @ blackdown  on: Today at 11:40:16 
WoW Zedic!! I remeber you !! I did satff last year in Bdown. I'm planning on again this summer, my last summer as a cadet!! maybe I'll be a CI the year after (2006), if not then i'm taking couple years off till i finish university then i'll come back as an officer but not in my cdt. corps I hate it there, any other corps but the one i'm i now!! LOL  By the way my CO told me that there were like 25+ confirmed pregnancies from blackdown last summer, mostly staff cdts though ... LOL figures!!!!!!
parents called the camp afterwards that their daughter got pregnant while she was there!! it supposed to be a new recourd heights reached in the "Blackdown Frat Book" if there is such a thing....!!!!

Explanation Mr Mitoff?

 

[Franko]

I'm planning on again this summer, my last summer as a cadet!!

*sniff sniff*

I smell poo.....

Anyone else?  :

Regards

 

[Big Foot]

Oh god, not another Smarty...

 

[Baloo]

I'm more disgusted at the fact that he is not only claiming to be in my unit, but my company. If I can find him, I will have a word with him. If he does indeed belong to our regiment.

 

[Scott]

OK, lets put it to rest right here, right now.

Mitoff, I suggest that before you do any more posting you take a nice long read of the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines

You were supposed to read them when you registered an account here but I am sure that either you did not or you have forgotten.

I will call your attention to these specific excerpts:

Public Profiles

I strongly encourage you to fill out all the sections of your public profile that you're comfortable with. We respect your privacy and won't force you to fill out your profile if you don't want to. Bear in mind though, that the amount of identifyable info in your profile will increase your general credibility here. Those with empty profiles are much harder to verify and will have to put a lot more effort into building a credible presence here.

Unfortunately, we've had some cases where a visitor tries to exaggerate or invent stellar military experience. ("I was a special forces sniper, but I can't tell you about that as my file is sealed...") Please. Don't insult us with this drivel. It is always painfully obvious what your real experience is, and we're impressed with quiet professionalism, not open bragging. These guys inevitably get forced out in the open and eventually leave the forums in disgrace.

as well as:

Folks,

We've had a few instances lately where opinion and rumour have been presented as hard evidence. Unfortunately in many cases, the information is flat out wrong.

Due to the anonymous nature of these forums, it can be hard to tell if information is coming from someone in a position to know or just someone who "has a friend whose uncle served with the Botswana Defence Force in the 70's."

So our request is this: Please qualify unconfirmed information posted here.

That is, if you didn't witness it first hand or read it in the CFAO's, state that it's an opinion, rumour or best guess. We won't think any less of you for not "knowing" the information. In fact, we'll all appreciate the honesty, and it'll likely save readers heartache later on, when they find out (the hard way) that it wasn't exactly bang on. If you do know the source, please reference it with a link or include the related information in your post. If the source information is large or takes the discussion off topic you may want to consider making use of a footnote1 to provide references and sources that back up your claims.

There are lots of discussions which take place on this forum in which either none or all of us are "experts" in some way (politics, rifles, etc).  It's great that we can all discuss the daily news and have civil debate on contentious matters, however these boards are no different than the real world, and if you provide information to back up your claim, you better be willing to give us some proof.  If you base your opinions off of hearsay and rumor, be prepared to be called to task when you use up bandwidth on this board to tell us about it.

The only other alternative is to treat every bit of information posted here as heresay, which essentially makes the forums useless.

So please, make it very clear when you're posting the degree to which your information is confirmed. Opinions and best guesses are OK, just don't present them as being the DS solution.

Also please take note of the consequences for violating these guidelines.

Thank you.

Back on topic please?

Baloo, please PM me when you do find out what is going on, thanks.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Someone is confused.  There is no "1st Air Cav Regiment"

The 1st Cavalry Division existed (still exists, and is in Iraq right now).

The unit in the movie with Mel Gibson was the 7th Cavalry Regiment ("Garryowen!"), which was the unit Custer led into action at the Greasy Grass.  The 7th Cavalry Regiment was one of the units making up the 1st Cavalry Division.

 

[Franko]

The plot thickens.........  :

Regards

 

[JimmyPeeOn]

But then we lost the 7th Cav, well I fell asleep and my friend stole the division.  I had my name on all of them but i guess he scratched it off, but they didnt mind be cause there were no serial numbers on any of the troops. hmmmmm...... :

 

[Mr. Ted]

Believe that unit was stood up as the "AirCav" as an airmobile unit to take over from the former 11th Air Assault.

Believe it was referred to as the Air Cav until(correct me if I'm wrong) unitl around 1970 when the 101st Airborne was re-rolled to take over the job.  At that point elements of the Cav were again reorrganized to become an armoured cav unit.

I think that's why the 101st Airborne still uses (AIRMOBILE) in brackets as their unit designation.  The 101st is the premier Airmobile unit today, as the Aircav(all it's formerly cav subunits) replaced the old 11th Air Assault as the premier airmobile unit in 1965.

I think.  Ha ha ha.

But either way, that young gentleman is also dragging my former unit thru the mud and I don't appreciate it either.  He's full of it.

Mr. Ted

 

[PPCLI Guy]

IMHO our complex and resource-intensive annual tasking system is a result of our inability (or refusal...) to properly man and equip our training centres, based partly on money and partly on the argument that if we permanently beef the TCs up for the summer spike, that gear and all those people will just sit idle all year. Personally, I think this reflects a lack of original thinking. IMHO it has alot more to do with that dreaded Canadian disease of "this is the way we've always done it so it must be right".
Cheers

Agreed, but in fairness, the impact of ITCB (Indiv Trg Cadre Backfill) and another program that escapes my mind right now are starting to be felt - which would have (if we didn't now have a 5000 man intake spike) seen a reduction in augmentation.

 

[matt45]

ok thnaks guys