Instructor language at BMQ

[Franko]

OK, listen in for a second, I wasn't going for the wind up but apparently that is what I got. Yes, basic was hard for some people. SQ even harder for others. I found them both very easy and probably got the most **** of the course. Bragging... no, it's just a fact of life.  Everyone has a different acceptance for harshness, for pain, for punishment, but that is what keeps troops motivated to do better, is the consequences.

Well done for you on completing it. Now you have the basic soldiering skills to not get yourself or others killed. Now you begin your real training in the following years.

I've completed the whole course.. the reason it's easy, because there is no repercussions, if you screw up all you get is a written warning, there is no physical punishment (rucksack runs, etc).

No repercussions eh? How about enough of the red chits and you're punted? Or how about failing a PO twice and you're punted? Or how about attitude and you're punted.

Get the idea yet troops? We teach, you absorb....albeit from a fire hose.

Can't do it? Re-course...or kicked out period.

Now onto physical punishment    :

Not tolerated....period.

However.....extra PT with FFO and ruck after supper can be arranged to get you ready for the field portion   

These courses aren't there for you to freak out over. We will teach you the fundamentals and show you the way....you still have to walk the path.

Oh...and just so we're clear.....I'm not carrying anyone whilst walking the path either.

Regards

 

[SupersonicMax]

Stop that kiddy fight there please!  If some people think any course is easy, good for them!  What's wrong with that?  I though BOTC was easy enough and no instructor never told me I was stupid for that or tried to argue with me! 

Doesn't the military teaches communication skills as well? 

Max

 

[Sig_Des]

Doesn't the military teaches communication skills as well?   

It does. It also teaches when someone should shut up and listen when someone who knows better or has seen more is talking.

Did I find BMQ to be hard? Portions of it. Other parts, not so much. That's not what it's about. It's about taking people from different backgrounds, throwing them all in the pot, and having them come out as soldiers.

It's about the common denominator. Some find it hard, some don't. Some like it, some don't. By saying it's easy, you're trivializing it for everyone else.

Everyone has to admit, it is a life-changing experience. Even if you don't see it yourself, it changes you in a manner of ways. Look at it as the first challenge in a new life.

What you get from it, is up to you.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I think imputs from everyone is usefull.  It gives the guy (techie) a better idea of what to expect from different people (which is good don't you think?).  Now, to what advices apply to him, that's up to him.  The best qualified person to tell you how a course is hard is the person who is doing it right now.  Not the instructor!

Max

 

[Springroll]

It gives the guy (techie) a better idea of what to expect from different people (which is good don't you think?).  Now, to what advices apply to him, that's up to him.  The best qualified person to tell you how a course is hard is the person who is doing it right now.  Not the instructor!

Max

If I recall, techie is on my reg force BMQ.
The information coming from a reservist is inaccurate to our situation.
He has 4 weeks of training, we have 11.
Now, if there is someone out there who did reg force BMQ recently, then that would be the better person to listen too.

Regardless, techie's question was answered, so there is really no need to keep fighting, is there?

 

[George Wallace]

  I though BOTC was easy enough and no instructor never told me I was stupid for that or tried to argue with me! 

Doesn't the military teaches communication skills as well?   

Max

The military does teach communication skills.  I would suggest you pay attention to them.  Your statement above tells us that all your instructors told you you were stupid.  It is that "Double Negative" thing you should have learned back in Grade three.   ;D

 

[Franko]

Arrgghhh.....beat me to it again George   

But in all seriousness though....courses differ from each other, depending on what unit is instructing, composition of it as well.

If you found it easy, great.

I hope you aided your coursemates who were struggling during it....like helping them get their kit sorted out, studying, cleaning weapons and station jobs etc.

There is more to a course than just going through the motions and passing. A sort of weird bond happens...which is a pleasant experience for most.

When I went through my Basic and TQ2 (a couple of eons ago) we had a guy who breezed through it all....and didn't lift a finger to help anyone unless it somehow made him look better to the DS. It was noted by everyone on the course....and is still thrown in his face on a monthly basis by his peers.

Make the most of your course troops and try to enjoy it. It's not a cake-walk....but you will have fun at times.

Regards

 

[SupersonicMax]

The military does teach communication skills.  I would suggest you pay attention to them.  Your statement above tells us that all your instructors told you you were stupid.  It is that "Double Negative" thing you should have learned back in Grade three.   ;D

As previously mentionned in a different post, my FOL isn't English.  I make my best to write in English so don't expect it to be perfect.  You still got the point of my message I guess.

Max

 

[George Wallace]

It depends.  Do you want me to automatically correct in my mind what you said and in doing so stay confused or do you want me to believe what you wrote as being gospel?  In one instance I will have to assume that you are a gangbanger or a homie with no sense of the use of grammar, or in the other instance I am to believe that you are stupid.  Do you see now what good grammar, sentence structure, concise wording, etc. mean in what you say or print?  If you want to get further in the Military, and eventually give 'Orders' you will have to learn how to communicate.  Right now, not assuming anything, your statement clearly says that all your instructors called you stupid.

 

[aesop081]

As previously mentionned in a different post, my FOL isn't English.  I make my best to write in English so don't expect it to be perfect.  You still got the point of my message I guess.

Max

"Achieve professional competence"......

work on your english, think of the effects and confusion a badly worded sentence can have when talking to ATC

 

[17thRecceSgt]

All

This was never meant to be a flame war, maybe more of a "listen to people that know better".

THINK.  There are people on these forum that will take what you say...word for word.  I quite clearly remember going thru Cornwallis, Thursday night of Week 1, when the senior course was having the Grad night.  Everything and anything those guys told us (half in the bag or better that night, coming back from the Green and Gold...) we took like gospel.  

Some of it was bad advice.  Like, for our pennant inspection, we sprayed starch on a bunch of pillow cases we ripped up (from the linen closet) and then, when we were done, thru them in the garbage.  Guess what the C.I. (Chief Instructor) of the school, and man by the name of Lt. Cmdr Townsend IIRC, found in the garbage during our pennant inspection?  Guess who gave us the idea to do that??

Folks (read "people with not lots of T.I. or experience) what you say CAN and WILL influence people.  I know this FROM PAST EXPERIENCE.  I am sure Recce By Death and George Wallace both can recount MORE and GRAVER instances of young troops with little T.I. giving advices to FNGs/recruits that they should not have.  They have been/did the real deal.  SO, when THEY talk, I STFU.  See a pattern here??

Ya, I know you don't want to listen "to these old fella's" or whatever.  Here's the thing.  Some of the folks on here have truly been there and done that, and until you have, your opinion is null and void next to theirs.  

Someday...YOU will be the "been there done that" crew, and you will know what I mean...

Just be careful what you post, and, make it clear that it is your opinion, vice a FACT or definite thing.  Is that hard??  No.

About the original topic of the post, here's my opinion...if you can't handle being yelled at, with some foul language, how will you handle combat?

What's that old saying?  "Sticks and stones..."

Stop fighting with the folks who know.  Accept that you are new to the game.  Shut mouth.  Open ears and brain.  Its for your benefit not mine.   ;D

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I think imputs from everyone is usefull.  It gives the guy (techie) a better idea of what to expect from different people (which is good don't you think?).  Now, to what advices apply to him, that's up to him.  The best qualified person to tell you how a course is hard is the person who is doing it right now.  Not the instructor!

Max

Just one question...how you ever put courses thru?  BMQ/SQ/QL3s, 4s, PCFs, PLQ, etc etc??

just curious...

 

[orange.paint]

Now onto physical punishment     :

Not tolerated....period.

However.....extra PT with FFO and ruck after supper can be arranged to get you ready for the field portion   

And I'm the kind of young guy at the school who will GLADLY volunteer to drop by after supper to run you till you puke.I'm usually in the gym anyway.Or drinking with the boys which is bad for me anyway.

As reccebydeath said earlier your career is full of this stuff.Wait till you got a few years in and they send you on a plq,believe me it sucks. Inspections are important so you don't get to the field and realise you have 2 left hand gloves.And before you tell me your smarter,don't.We see it all the time.

 

[George Wallace]

As reccebydeath said earlier your career is full of this stuff.Wait till you got a few years in and they send you on a plq,believe me it sucks. Inspections are important so you don't get to the field and realise you have 2 left hand gloves.And before you tell me your smarter,don't.We see it all the time.

.......That is why in Winter Warfare Trg we teach you to tie your big mittens together with 6' of Para cord so that you look like a bunch of kindergarden kids.............but you'll never loose your mitts.  (Oh!  If you thought that was a joke; well it isn't.  Don't try and tell the SSM that he looks like a kindergarden pre-schooler either.)

 

[Centurian1985]

Yes, they can still toss your kit around. Just as an example, if your bed isn't to standard, they will flip it and everything ontop of it, including field stripped C7 and the whole lot. Think of it this way, some young flat faced no hook private like myself, am I going to be more motivated if they don't touch my faults or if I they throw my stuff and force me to fix them? No names, no pack drill but I have been places where for example they tell you your DEU shirts need more work, 2 days later they come by to inspect again, you've done no work and they tell you you have outstanding DEU shirts! Happened on more than one occasion to by honest..

Don't doubt the platoon staff, pretty much all of them have a rulebook stuck up their arse from the amount of TI they have. They know what they can and cannot do, they also know what you can and cannot do, and will be along shortly to tell you when you break the rules.. So don't worry about petty stuff like inspections, most Sgts and MCpls only do them because some with a crown is telling them to!

Worry around the important stuff... drill, weapons, learning to love your rucksack so it will love you back. The military is nothing like basic or SQ, once you get out of there it will become much more relaxed. Basic is just there to weed out the weak, lame and lazy.

As a note in reference to points above (and which has been pointed out by others but I gotta put in my 2 cents worth), the elimination of physical abuse means the instructor cant grab you by the throat and slam you against a locker, or in another variation, cant have you do pushups by yourself until you collapse from exhaustion.  There are plenty of other 'mental tortures' that get sobbed about, which should be seen as a major learning point during basic - the world isnt going to stop what its doing so it can kiss your boo-boos all better, more likely it will sneak up and kick you in the ass while you are complaining.        

However, to push on, my comment is in regard to the bolded line in the text above.

You think basic /SQ is tough and the military is much more relaxed? What army are you in?  How long have you been in?  Have you gone anywhere?  Basic and SQ is a walk in the park compared to whats waiting for you.  At the end of every day in Basic/SQ you get to crawl back into your comfy bed after the course NCO made sure you got fed.  That doesnt happen in the real world.      

And basic does not weed out the weak lame and lazy.  Basic is about finding out who can adapt to a new environment, who can follow rules even when they dont make sense (from your point of view), and who can keep a straight face when being screamed at by some higher up for something that you think is unimportant.  These are 'basic' military skills, flexibility and masking your true thoughts.  Be assured the 'weak' pass the minimum standards, soldiers continued to get 'lamed' through performance of duties, and the 'lazy' will continue to be pushed in to meet recruiting quotas.

Of note, I hate hearing that term 'weak, lame and lazy' -  I know too many soldiers who were injured in the performance of their duties, and to have them lumped in with your 'weak and lazy' is a slap in the face to their dedication and willingness to accept physical damage in order to get the job done.  You better hope to god you never say that term in reference to one of our troops injured overseas, at least in my hearing range.  

 

[Centurian1985]

OK, listen in for a second, I wasn't going for the wind up but apparently that is what I got. Yes, basic was hard for some people. SQ even harder for others. I found them both very easy and probably got the most **** of the course. Bragging... no, it's just a fact of life. I've completed the whole course.. the reason it's easy, because there is no reprecussions, if you screw up all you get is a written warning, there is no physical punishment (rucksack runs, etc). Everyone has a different acceptance for harshness, for pain, for punishment, but that is what keeps troops motivated to do better, is the consequences.

As an interpretation for you, it only sounds like you 'stayed under the radar'.  This is not a good career profile.

Some people are good at not getting noticed, average joe's with average marks, blending into a crowd, neither leading nor following, not drawing attention.  The infamous 'gray man' you hear about. Which in itself is not a good way to describe your progress.  In this army the people who attract the most attention are the worst AND the best.  It doesnt mean the course is a breeze, it only means you didnt do anything good enough or bad enough to attract attention. 

 

[SupersonicMax]

"Achieve professional competence"......

work on your english, think of the effects and confusion a badly worded sentence can have when talking to ATC

That's one of the reason I'm in Winnipeg right now instead of Bagotville.  To work on my English.  So far, during my 400 and something flight hours (most of them in an English environment) I didn't have a single problem.  I knock on wood...

If what I write on this forum was official, I would make my messages go through a correcter (someone, not a computer program).  

And please, stop telling me "if you want to get further in the military"...  I already have a good idea how to get where I want... With advises from people in my trade.

Max

 

[aesop081]

That's one of the reason I'm in Winnipeg right now instead of Bagotville.  To work on my English.  So far, during my 400 and something flight hours (most of them in an English environment) I didn't have a single problem.  I knock on wood...

Well ahead of you there..........but keep up the good work

And please, stop telling me "if you want to get further in the military"...  I already have a good idea how to get where I want... .

Thats is a rather inapropriate attitude IMHO.  You have only begun you career and are still not that useful to the military.  One day you may end up as an aircraft captain, in charge of training a young first officer and you will find yourself saying that very phrase.  If you cannot graciously accept the critisim of other CF members with more experience than you, regardless of trade, how do you expect to have any credibility ?  You are an officer, lead by example.

With advises from people in my trade.

Do not dismiss the advice of members in other trades.  I am not a pilot and still relatively new to the aircrew world but i am sure that i could teach you a few things on flying multi-engine aircraft at 300 knots, 200 feet above the waves and on what i have observed makes a good AC or FO.  I'm sure that the more experienced navigators that frequent this site could do an even better job than i can.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Don't try and tell the SSM that he looks like a kindergarden pre-schooler either.)

But...that would be a hoot to see! 

 

[bcbarman]

No matter what course you are in, no matter what level you are trying to acheave, there has been people that have done it before, and guess what,  They are the ones that are teaching you what to do next.  Anyone who has been an instructor has had one of "those" moments. 

Let me explain to those that have yet to take PLQ (or whatever they call leadership courses this week) You are inspecting a new troops _____, could be anything, and they have done something dumb to cover up the fact that they did not spend the time on the _____ to get it to standard.  You think back to your course, and you know that you have done the same thing, only 10 years ago.

Those of us that remember V-neck Tshirts will laugh at that, but BMQ is designed to turn a long hair punk into a troop.  If you were a cadet back in the day, know how to polish a boot and make a bed, the first part of BMQ is easy.  Its the section attacks in 40C heat, 4 days of no sleep and helping the unprepared pass is what is hard.  I will take someone who does not know how to polish a boot yet picks up the Carl G everytime over the troop that never carries more than a bad attitude.  Translation, pick up the Carl G.

PS, Mudrecce, you took my Simpson's quote, but then again, all things in life can be referenced by using the Simpson's or sex. 

PPS: Moderators, love the Spell Check, we all !@# sometimes