Inspector General of Australian Defence Forces Report on Afghan War Crimes

[Weinie]

OK. I don't want to conflate Somalia and alleged SAS misdeeds in Afghanistan.

 

[Good2Golf]

Let the piling on begin:

But Orr argues disbanding 2 squadron is not only “completely disingenuous” but sends the wrong message.

“Disbanding a squadron also places blame on the enlisted ranks firmly,” he said. “Disbanding the entire regiment would be the officer corp taking responsibility also, but of course we see now rampantly that wasn’t ever an option.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/25/australias-entire-sas-regiment-must-be-disbanded-after-brereton-report-expert-says

Sounds a bit shrill to me.

:cheers:

I don’t understand Orr’s 2 Squadron comment?

Is 2 Sqn run by NCMs only?  How does deactivating one of four squadrons bias against NCMs? ???

Regards
G2G

 

[daftandbarmy]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/25/australias-entire-sas-regiment-must-be-disbanded-after-brereton-report-expert-says

Sounds a bit shrill to me.

:cheers:


I don’t understand Orr’s 2 Squadron comment?

Is 2 Sqn run by NCMs only?  How does deactivating one of four squadrons bias against NCMs? ???

Regards
G2G

The right answer is probably something like: you don't get rid of deep and dangerous performance issues by disbanding organizations. You get rid of them through good leadership.

 

[dimsum]

I don%u2019t understand Orr%u2019s 2 Squadron comment?

Is 2 Sqn run by NCMs only?  How does deactivating one of four squadrons bias against NCMs? ???

Regards
G2G

I don't believe it is - there was another article saying that the Chief of Army (or the Chief of Defence Force) was a former 2 Sqn officer years ago.



Also, some SAS folks are potentially facing dismissal:

Defence starts dismissing SAS soldiers in wake of Afghanistan war crimes inquiry

At least 10 current members of the elite Special Air Service Regiment implicated in the damning Afghanistan war crimes inquiry have received "show cause" notices from the Defence Department.

The ABC can reveal Defence "initiated administrative action" against serving Special Forces members within days of last week's landmark Brereton war crimes report being made public.

Defence sources have told the ABC the elite soldiers facing possible expulsion are members of the SAS's now disbanded 2 Squadron as well as the Regiment's 3 Squadron.

Other Special Forces members may eventually be discharged or face a range of disciplinary sanctions, including formal warnings.

[rest on link]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-26/defence-dismissing-sas-soldiers-accused-war-crimes-afghanistan/12920946

 

[Good2Golf]

I don't believe it is - there was another article saying that the Chief of Army (or the Chief of Defence Force) was a former 2 Sqn officer years ago.



Also, some SAS folks are potentially facing dismissal:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-26/defence-dismissing-sas-soldiers-accused-war-crimes-afghanistan/12920946

I attributed it to Professor Orr’s mal-comprehension of the organization...

 

[FJAG]

I attributed it to Professor Orr’s mal-comprehension of the organization...

When I first read the article I sensed that dissonance and tried to research his credentials as an "expert". I found nothing in the way of publications except three articles on terrorism going back to 2013 and 2015, a few news interviews and a reference that he's still writing something about the Sydney Lindt cafe siege of 2014.

Anyone have a link or something which shows this guy's expertise?

:cheers:

 

[dimsum]

Looks like the Special Operations Task Group may not get their Meritorious Unit Citation taken away after all. 

Defence steps back from move to strip veterans of military decorations after war crimes inquiry

The Defence chief has bowed to public and political pressure, saying "no decision" has yet been made on whether to revoke honours awarded to Australian soldiers for service in Afghanistan.

When releasing the Brereton report this month General Angus Campbell said he would recommend to the Governor-General that the meritorious unit citation be stripped from the Special Operations Task Group (SOTG) following revelations of alleged war crimes.

Since announcing the move on November 19, General Campbell has faced considerable pressure over the decision, with Prime Minister Scott Morrison declaring on Monday: "No decisions have been made on that."

Veterans believe about 3,000 members of the SOTG which served in Afghanistan from 2007-2013 would be affected by a decision to revoke the military decoration.

[More on link]

Also, only in Australia would you see this quote from a sitting politician: 

"If General Campbell has not felt the bitch slap from all those millions of Australians out there, he needs to pull his head out of his arse," Senator Lambie told reporters in Canberra.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-30/defence-says-no-decision-yet-on-meritorious-citation-afghanistan/12935302

 

[Cloud Cover]

Senator Lambie looks and sounds like an interesting character.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Meanwhile, China sticks its nib in as well ....

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson has hit back at the Australian government's demands for an apology over a doctored photo posted by a Communist Party official.

The photo, blasted as "repugnant" by Prime Minister Scott Morrison, has been altered to depict an Australian soldier holding a knife to the throat of a child atop the Australian and Afghanistan flags.

China's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian today tweeted the faked image, sparking Mr Morrison's swift rebuke demanding an apology from China and for the image to be taken down.

Below the image, which shows the child's face covered and holding a lamb, are the words: "Don't be afraid, we are coming to bring you peace".

"Shocked by murder of Afghan civilians and prisoners by Australian soldiers. We strongly condemn such acts and call for holding them accountable," Mr Zhao said in the tweet.

He was making reference to the findings of the Brereton report, which alleged Australian special forces soldiers committed 39 murders in Afghanistan ...

Still a pinned tweet on this guy's Twitter account as of this post.

 

[Journeyman]

....Still a pinned tweet on this guy's Twitter account as of this post.

With almost 50K 'likes'  :not-again:

 

[Good2Golf]

With almost 50K 'likes'  :not-again:

...ahhh, University of Bejing’s 3rd-year Comp Eng class...

 

[Kat Stevens]

Meanwhile, China sticks its nib in as well ....Still a pinned tweet on this guy's Twitter account as of this post.

Meanwhile, in Tibet...

 

[Good2Golf]

Meanwhile, in Tibet...

...and Hong Kong....and...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

...and Hong Kong....and...

Every city, town and village on the mainland. Unrepentant totalitarians.

 

[daftandbarmy]

...and Hong Kong....and...

Since you mentioned 'Hongers'

China Targets Hong Kong’s Lawmakers as It Squelches Dissent

Four pro-democracy figures were forced out of the legislature, prompting another 15 to vow to resign in solidarity, as Beijing cracks down on one of the city’s few remaining venues for political opposition.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/world/asia/hong-kong-protest-democracy.html

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm late to the game here but from what I gather China - that virtuous regime of human rights - is sticking its nose in on the subject of Aussie soldiers murdering Afghan citizens.... isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

 

[brihard]

I'm late to the game here but from what I gather China - that virtuous regime of human rights - is sticking its nose in on the subject of Aussie soldiers murdering Afghan citizens.... isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Yeah, but that's just China being China. Everyone will get all pissy at each other for a couple weeks but otherwise things will carry on as normal (not that relations are great to begin with).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yeah, but that's just China being China. Everyone will get all pissy at each other for a couple weeks but otherwise things will carry on as normal (not that relations are great to begin with).

Countries don't seem very inclined to call out China for their behavior.

 

[dimsum]

There's a bit of a row on whether the Special Operations Task Group (SOTG) should have their Meritorious Unit Citation stripped.  Looks like the recommendation may be overturned.

Skirmish between Defence Chief Angus Campbell and Prime Minister Scott Morrison over military decorations will leave permanent scar

This is a war General Angus Campbell cannot win. His humiliating surrender is inevitable.

The Chief of the Defence Force may have the best hi-tech weapons at his disposal, but they are impotent to the will of the Prime Minister.

Soon enough it will be Scott Morrison 1 — Angus Campbell 0.

The CDF's decision to accept Paul Brereton's recommendation to strip the Special Operations Task Group of a Meritorious Unit Citation following evidence of Afghanistan war crimes is in slow, ugly retreat.

And when this PM v Top Brass skirmish is at an end, a backdown compromise will emerge, but there will be a permanent scar.

General Campbell's authority will have been diminished by a PM who believes he has a better read the public mood, and the obvious tension between the men is over process and how justice is being delivered.

[More on link]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/chief-defence-force-angus-campbell-war-crimes-statement/12938454



Also, regarding the whistleblower who publicized the incidents:

Petition to 'free' Afghan war crimes whistleblower David McBride reaches 36,000 signatures

In a move started by Afghan Australian lawyer Arezo Safi, the petition calls to “free” David McBride from prosecution as a “first step” towards repairing the Afghan community’s relationship with the Australian Defence Force.

From 2014 to 2016, McBride, a former Defence Force lawyer, made information on alleged war crimes committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan available to the ABC, which reported the details in 2017.

The following year he was charged with five national security-related offences, including theft of Commonwealth property and unlawfully disclosing a Commonwealth document, which carry a sentence of up to life imprisonment.

McBride pleaded not guilty to each of the charges at a May 2019 preliminary hearing and he's currently awaiting trial.

[More on link]

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/petition-to-free-afghan-war-crimes-whistleblower-david-mcbride-reaches-36-000-signatures

 

[CBH99]

I just want to make sure I understand this... I've googled a few different sources, so I just want to confirm I understand this properly.

A lawyer, while working on a file, discovered the possibility of gross misconduct on behalf of certain SOF personnel, some of which constituted war crimes. 

He decided to go public with the matter, and was subsequently charged by the government??