Improved Combat Uniform

[LineJumper]

That'd be nice, there's guys in my battery that are down to one good set of combats right now 

A well trained troop then. I only keep 1 good uniform in my ruck for redeployment to garrison, as if I'm on ration strength, in the event we get a feed before cutting loose. (I suppose setting an example comes into play as well.)

 

[Matt_Fisher]

SoldiersSystems.net just published an article on the 'Improved Combat Uniform' solicitation that's been put on the MERX as a tender.

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/06/27/canada-tranistioning-enhanced-combat-uniform/

I believe that the concept is that the Enhanced Combat Uniform is primarily designed for training and garrison operations in Canada and for operational usage, whereby the FR Hybrid Shirt will continue to be issued on an as needed basis for operational areas which require the usage of the fragmentation vest and there is a significant risk of heat injuries (heat cramps, heat exhaustion, and heat stroke) and burn injuries.

What's interesting about the uniform is that it has a 2" wide x 3.5" tall section of loop Velcro for attaching rank insignia to.  I'm assuming that there will have to be two different types of CADPAT rank/unit title badges:  The current slip-on style, and a hook Velcro backed version that's 2" wide x 3.5" tall for use with the Enhanced Combat Uniform.

The upper sleeve pockets (5" wide x 6.5" tall) are 'flight crew' side entry style rather than the top flap style that's been used on the CADPAT AR shirt and the FR Hybrid Shirt.  The surface of the sleeve pocket is covered by a 4" wide x 6.5" tall section of loop Velcro and the shirt will come with 2 x CADPAT removable (backed by hook Velcro) patch panels (4" wide x 4.5" tall) to cover the majority of the loop Velcro, save a 4" wide x 2" tall section at the top of the sleeve pocket, which I assume is left exposed in order to allow placement of the Canadian flag badge.
It'll be interesting to see whether a Canadian version of the 'Order of the Undercollar' (www.orderoftheundercollar.com) will arise whereby morale and other type badges will be worn 'secretly' under the CADPAT patch panel.
Also, the current means of attaching brassards/armlets to the shirt sleeve will not be possible because the fabric and Velcro tabe that's at the top of the left sleeve has been eliminated.  It's probably likely that Velcro attached identifier badges, i.e. RSO, MP, Med Tech, Course Senior, Traffic Tech, etc. will be worn on the sleeve pocket Velcro panels in lieu of brassards with the identifiers on them.

 

[Lerch]

That's cool and all, but does that mean we have to wait longer to exchange our combats now?

 

[dapaterson]

There are actually a number of different issues at play.  The last comprehensive Army personnel survey of sizes was about 15 years ago; that biometric data is what is currently used for all CF clothing acquisitions.  So, if soldiers sizes have changed since then, the CF is buying kit in the wrong proportions - to say nothing of the question as to whether or not RCN and RCAF personnel share the same size and shape distributions as the Army.

There is currently an initiative to get up to date sizing information (and no, it's not acceptable to merely summarize what's in the supply system - how often have you taken "too big" or "too small" becuase the only other option is to get nothing?).

 

[PuckChaser]

That's cool and all, but does that mean we have to wait longer to exchange our combats now?

Delivery is supposed to start 45 days after the sample is accepted, and the MREX listing closes 24 July 12. I'd say at least 6 months till depot sends out stock to bases, and even then they're only making 45k shirts and 45k pants so we're still gonna be short with all the people waiting to get new uniforms.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I have a question:  What if I wanted to suggest something before they start producing those?

I have noticed that on our current combats, we have the "hook" velcro on the pant pocket flaps, which rubs against skin and irritates it especially in the cold.  I always wondered why the velcro types aren't reversed to appease that?

 

[dapaterson]

That could be raised through a UCR - ask one of your friendly neighbourhood Sup Techs on how to do it (and on the proper form to use).

 

[PMedMoe]

There are actually a number of different issues at play.  The last comprehensive Army personnel survey of sizes was about 15 years ago; that biometric data is what is currently used for all CF clothing acquisitions.  So, if soldiers sizes have changed since then, the CF is buying kit in the wrong proportions - to say nothing of the question as to whether or not RCN and RCAF personnel share the same size and shape distributions as the Army.

There is currently an initiative to get up to date sizing information (and no, it's not acceptable to merely summarize what's in the supply system - how often have you taken "too big" or "too small" becuase the only other option is to get nothing?).

The study was done sometime in '97, I think.  I was one of the people in the survey.  I'm guessing they took an "average" or "median" of the all the info, because most kit is still too big for me.

 

[InvaderGrimm]

There are actually a number of different issues at play.  The last comprehensive Army personnel survey of sizes was about 15 years ago; that biometric data is what is currently used for all CF clothing acquisitions.  So, if soldiers sizes have changed since then, the CF is buying kit in the wrong proportions - to say nothing of the question as to whether or not RCN and RCAF personnel share the same size and shape distributions as the Army.

There is currently an initiative to get up to date sizing information (and no, it's not acceptable to merely summarize what's in the supply system - how often have you taken "too big" or "too small" becuase the only other option is to get nothing?).

They just recently did a new biometric survey. I was part of it here in Trenton. They used 3D rendering to get the sizing information of a large number of pers, male and female. They even double checked the measurements by using staff with good old fashioned tape measures. Whether they will be using this information for the sizing of the Improved Combat Uniform, I have no idea.

 

[daftandbarmy]

They just recently did a new biometric survey. I was part of it here in Trenton. They used 3D rendering to get the sizing information of a large number of pers, male and female. They even double checked the measurements by using staff with good old fashioned tape measures. Whether they will be using this information for the sizing of the Improved Combat Uniform, I have no idea.

I wonder why, if the rest of the world's retail industry can get it right and has been for decades, we need to reinvent the wheel on this?

 

[a_majoor]

I'd be a lot happier if the recruits could get the boots they are entitled to.

This "new" uniform thing is driving me around the bend as well, it seems to be the implied reason that no one can get exchanges for almost any reason. I had a candidate on my PLQ mod 1-3 who's uniform was held together with guntape, but was unable to exchange it. (And oddly, this was not at an ASU either).

 

[PuckChaser]

This "new" uniform thing is driving me around the bend as well, it seems to be the implied reason that no one can get exchanges for almost any reason. I had a candidate on my PLQ mod 1-3 who's uniform was held together with guntape, but was unable to exchange it. (And oddly, this was not at an ASU either).

The procurement and supply system botched keeping enough uniforms around, so when they went with the ICU to act as proper stock levels for all the sizes, they used it as an excuse to say that's why they were short sizes for everyone. Even though over 2 years ago they knew they were critical stock of 15 separate sizes of uniforms.

 

[fraserdw]

I wonder why, if the rest of the world's retail industry can get it right and has been for decades, we need to reinvent the wheel on this?

I am not sure what a survey in Trenton will tell you about uniform distribution in Edmonton?

 

[Hurricane]

I have a question:  What if I wanted to suggest something before they start producing those?

I have noticed that on our current combats, we have the "hook" velcro on the pant pocket flaps, which rubs against skin and irritates it especially in the cold.  I always wondered why the velcro types aren't reversed to appease that?

Got a needle and thread?

 

[Kokanee]

Kingston is still bone dry for combats in popular sizes, and we're starting to look rather tattered; I myself have maybe four months of wear left in my current sets, less if I put a lot of wear and tear on during our big summer EX.

 

[The Bread Guy]

SoldiersSystems.net just published an article on the 'Improved Combat Uniform' solicitation that's been put on the MERX as a tender.

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/06/27/canada-tranistioning-enhanced-combat-uniform/

I believe that the concept is that the Enhanced Combat Uniform is primarily designed for training and garrison operations in Canada and for operational usage, whereby the FR Hybrid Shirt will continue to be issued on an as needed basis for operational areas which require the usage of the fragmentation vest and there is a significant risk of heat injuries (heat cramps, heat exhaustion, and heat stroke) and burn injuries ....

Bump with an update - bidders have more time to bid:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/106487/post-1160484.html#msg1160484

 

[buzgo]

Hmmm... no bids?

 

[fraserdw]

As per my question with the rucksack, SDS is already making this uniform, why not go to them, license them for CADPAT and have them contract a Canadian clothing firm to make the uniform.  Why are we re-inventing an existing uniform.  We do this with all our kit and end up with crap.  Noisy brakes, shapeless rucksacks, tac vests that carry less than web gear, boots that do more injury than good.  In the end we go to real war and we have to buy the COTs stuff as a UOR.  The gear is out there, lets buy it COTs.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

As per my question with the rucksack, SDS is already making this uniform, why not go to them, license them for CADPAT and have them contract a Canadian clothing firm to make the uniform.  Why are we re-inventing an existing uniform.  We do this with all our kit and end up with crap.  Noisy brakes, shapeless rucksacks, tac vests that carry less than web gear, boots that do more injury than good.  In the end we go to real war and we have to buy the COTs stuff as a UOR.  The gear is out there, lets buy it COTs.

My <insert what deity you want here> man stop making sense!

;D

 

[Jammer]

Wait until it's decided that CADPAT is out and Multicam is in.

The US Army just shitcanned the one billion dollar fiasco that was the ACU.