Improved Combat Uniform

[ballz]

Let's see...the subject falls broadly under the heading of military uniforms, dress and deportment.

We have a Sgt-Maj, with extensive military experience, saying "A."
We have an OCdt, obligated to look at his watch when discussing time-in, saying "B."


Hmm.....who to believe, who to believe?  op:



Should anyone wish to come back with the obligatory "oh, oh ya," I admit right now that I don't particularly care, one way or the other. In garrison they're bloused; in the field, it depends. 

I don't know why I'm answering to your arrogance but what can I say, I'm a sucker.

I'm not complaining about blousing them in garrison... but that right there says it's a fashion statement. When you're more concerned about how it looks in garrison, but don't care in the field, that shows right there that it's more about fashion than function.

As for the Sgt-Major thing, not all Sgt-Majors agree. Some want them bloused in the field, some don't care. Which only further serves what I just said.

 

[Jungle]

I'm not sure I have "extensive" experience as a Sgt-Maj... "depends" how one defines extensive.

Anyway, if the effectiveness of the Troops "depends" on the blousing, then I'm all for it. But it doesn't...

It's good to see the new pants will have a provision to be worn unbloused, but I am not sure it will even be optional at the beginning; "depends" how the dinosaurs react to the change.

... now I have to go to the bathroom...

 

[Tow Tripod]

I missed something about these uniforms? When is the start of the delivery date?

 

[Journeyman]

And again, I'd like to repeat the key personal point of my post -- "I don't particularly care..."

If anyone feels a need to use any of my words to justify their argument, well giddy-up.

 

[BDTyre]

Interesting.  When I was there last year, all USN personnel wore the older desert combats and tan boots.  Talk about sticking out like a sore thumb now.

Most of them did too when I was there, but there was a group of them (not sure who they were/what they were tasked with) wearing the new Navy Working Uniform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniforms_of_the_United_States_Navy#Navy_Working_Uniform). Not only did they stick out like a sore thumb in KAF, the uniform also provides excellent cam and concealment in the ocean should they go overboard.  ;D

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

I know this is derailing a bit, but I get a little tired of hearing that line about camo overboard, and why camo on ships.  If you read up about the uniform, and the research they specify why they went with a camo, and its not so the Navy will look like sniperninjas.

 

[McG]

The CadPat boot project was canned. It was tested in Petawawa for a few months, apparently, no one liked them.

No.  The project lives on.  However, several months ago the decision was made that the project would instead deliver a brown boot.

You might try some investigating here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/450.0.html

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

You're in essence agreeing with him.

He didn't say the Mk IV boot was cancelled but that CADPAT boot was cancelled, which you yourself just agreed with.

Does anyone have any news on if the boot will have more then one manufacturer or what manufacturer?  Are we stuck with pouliot/boulet and that P.O.S  :facepalm:

 

[Pusser]

I know this is derailing a bit, but I get a little tired of hearing that line about camo overboard, and why camo on ships.  If you read up about the uniform, and the research they specify why they went with a camo, and its not so the Navy will look like sniperninjas.

I understand all the reasoning behind it.  And I should point out that the USN specifically claims that it is NOT camo (so perhaps "dispersed pattern " would be a better description).  However, all the reasoning in the world does not prevent this stuff looking ridiculous - meaning the RCN should be adopting it soon ;D.

 

[McG]

He didn't say the Mk IV boot was cancelled but that CADPAT boot was cancelled, ...

He said the project was cancelled.  That is not true.  If the project were cancelled, there would be no new boot coming.
There is a new boot in the pipes because the project was not cancelled.

You will note that he did use the word "project" and that word means something.  Had he omitted that word, he would have been correct.  However, he used the word and in so doing he posted misinformation. 

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Again I disagree.

he specified cadpat boot project.  not GP replacement or MK 4.

You won't agree with me, and I won't change my mind about you being wrong.

So we can just let it go, and move on to getting back on topic about the new uniforms.

Are we sticking with Cadpat or going multicam like USA and UK?

 

[Good2Golf]

Again I disagree.

he specified cadpat boot project.  not GP replacement or MK 4.

You won't agree with me, and I won't change my mind about you being wrong.

So we can just let it go, and move on to getting back on topic about the new uniforms.

Are we sticking with Cadpat or going multicam like USA and UK?

No need to take that tone, Biggoals2bdone.

Unless you are a SME on the project, it's best to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to speak like you have above, and prove it.

For those who know, and MCG is one of those who know, CTS - TCB 000433 is a project, and it is still active and pursuing a temperate combat boot.  The fact that colour at one point was being considered as CADPAT, well...that's history as MCG pointed out, but the PROJECT (TCB 000433) moves onwards.  There has never been a "CADPAT" boot project, only a Temperate Combat Boot project (along with other boots such as "wet weather", "CBRN overboot", etc...)  linked to the larger Clothe The Soldier (CTS) project or other types of boots (e.g. "cold, wet weather") within CTS itself.

Regards
G2G
(Milnet.ca Staff for Biggoal's freebie warning)

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

I know the "old guard" will all hop to defend this one, and chastise me if you must.

but THIS (up above) is what turns people off from this site.

from a project point of view no it was never cancelled.  So yes as someone who's on board with the project you would word it that way, but to some avg guy, aka layman's point of view, saying the cadpat boot was scrapped and they are going with a brown one, or rather instead of cadpat for the next generation combat boot they are going with brown...makes PERFECT sense >>> regular avg soldiers get what is being said.

If you want to get technical I didn't personally like the tone that McG took up with the other fella, so I did what I thought was right and stick up for the guy because I completely understood what he meant...as I am sure many others did.

I did not take any tone whatsoever, I was in fact being adult and saying it was semantics, but we were never going to agree and that we should just move on...instead I am being singled out as an instigator/bad guy, which doesn't make sense because I did no such thing.  Therefore I don't feel the milnet.ca staff had any reason to single me out and be so rude. This just perpetuates the "old boys" club thing that many have mentioned about this site.

 

[Scott]

MCG's tone? Are you serious? MCG is likely the single most patient and even keel moderators here and, in seven years of my time moderating, I cannot recall one single instance of a complaint against him. I'm astounded you got that from him...but hey, maybe you're the sensitive type.

Wind your neck in and don't fight others battles for them

Scott
Army.ca Staff

By the way, I signed as Staff because I am acting as a mod right now. MCG did not so he was not acting as one, something we put into action a long time ago, in case you missed it. We are allowed to participate in threads like anyone so wind your neck in a bit.

"Old Guard"
BWAAAHAHAHAHA

:Tin-Foil-Hat:

 

[jollyjacktar]

I understand all the reasoning behind it.  And I should point out that the USN specifically claims that it is NOT camo (so perhaps "dispersed pattern " would be a better description).  However, all the reasoning in the world does not prevent this stuff looking ridiculous - meaning the RCN should be adopting it soon ;D.

Once I saw the uniform up close it did not seem so bad and ugly.  It does not clash on ship the way the FF coverall in cadpat does.  That, looks ridiculous..... on ship. 

 

[Good2Golf]

Really MrBlue?

You speak about the "old guard" and how it deals with people as being "what turns people off from this site."  I (as a regular member, like anyone else) happen to think that your manner of conduct, however old you are, is something that while not so melodramatic as turning people of the site, is the kind of conduct that makes some threads less informative and enjoyable than others.

You seem to have read far more into MCG's tone, which was factual and provided further references to see more about the boots in question, than did many others:

No.  The project lives on.  However, several months ago the decision was made that the project would instead deliver a brown boot.

You might try some investigating here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/450.0.html

The principle issue over the last several posts was the manner in which you decided to "stick up for the guy."

You came across as arrogant (as well as wrong), then unilaterally stated that all were to "just let it go" and move on to discussing the original issue at hand, the ICUs.

...I won't change my mind about you being wrong.

So we can just let it go, and move on to getting back on topic about the new uniforms...

That you see nothing wrong with how you conducted yourself and that you feel that it's unequivocally all the bad, nasty, old guys ganging up on you...perhaps it's time to have a look in the mirror and see who it may be with the thin skin.


Regards
G2G

 

[MikeL]

Are we sticking with Cadpat or going multicam like USA and UK?

Multicam is only for use in Afghanistan, not 100% sure about the UK though.  But for the US Army, Multicam is not their new official uniform to replace UCP, it is only for Afghanistan.

Also, why would we switch to Multicam?  And if you had bothered to read the other pages here and read the pdf, pictures or any of the links to it you would have seen that we are not switching to Multicam.

I missed something about these uniforms? When is the start of the delivery date?

It's in the powerpoint presentation.  I believe delivery starts sometime during the summer of 2012.

 

[Timmy!]

Multicam is only for use in Afghanistan, not 100% sure about the UK though. 

Same goes for the Brits. DPM's back in the UK.

 

[vonGarvin]

Same goes for the Brits. DPM's back in the UK.

Not so sure abouit that.  I just attended a NATO working group and the Brit Major, in from the UK, was in multicam.  I'm not sure if they are all going like that, though...

(No, he's not deploying, nor is he on the way back)

 

[Jungle]

The UK Army is switched to their version of Multicam. They are not going back to DPM.