I'm restoring an old 403 Sqn Vehicle. I have some questions....

[armybuck041]

Hello,

In my quest to restore an old Army Jeep, I ended up buying an M151A2 a while back. Initially, the provenance of the vehicle wasn't of great importance, but as I spend more time working on it, I have become quite interested.

By way of some detailed hunting through CF Vehicle Databases with the AM General Serial Number, I was able to find the CFR Number and shortly after, its maintenance and VMO history.

So, turns out this M151A2 spent its entire 14 years with 403 Sqn (HOTS) in Gagetown.

My questions are:

What would the primary role of a Jeep at 403 Sqn have been?
Did 403 Sqn Vehicles have Call Signs?
This one had Radios in it. Would they have been normal VHF (RT-524) or something else like HF? 

Thanks

 

[Timmy!]

PM me with the CFR and I"ll see what info I can bring up on it with FMS.

 

[Loachman]

During what time was it with 403 Squadron?

 

[armybuck041]

During what time was it with 403 Squadron?

Delivered new in 1974, serving until approx 1987 when it was scrapped and replaced by an Iltis.

I pulled all the info I could find from the EDR Viewer. Quite a bit of info still available. Surprisingly, it spent its entire career with 403 Sqn. Gently used too, only 26K on the Odometer. 

The CFR is 74-09782 

My concern here is to try and get an idea of how it would have been equipped and the correct stencils or markings etc as well as figuring out what it was used for (example: CO's rover, Staff Vehicle etc etc). It was stripped of most of its accessories and then painted Tremclad glossy green sometime prior to my getting it, so theres nothing for me to work with. It did have Tactical Radios in it as there is evidence of having been fitted with Radio Sub-Trays etc.

To be honest, if it was from an Army Unit it would be very simple. The Call Sign would correspond to who rode in it, what it would have carried, and what the role of the Unit was. When it comes to the Air Force and SMP Vehicles, especially a Trg Unit, I have no idea.

Thanks

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Maybe because:

Activated as Operational Training Squadron
In January 1968, the Squadron was activated as 403 (Helicopter) Operational Training Squadron (Hel) OTS at Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Petawawa and was equipped with 10 CUH-1H helicopters. Once again, it was formed specifically to support the Land Forces.
In July 1972, the Squadron was given the exclusive role of training of aircrew and technical personnel for the Tactical Helicopter and Rescue Squadrons.

To carry out its new role, the Squadron joined 422 Squadron at CFB Gagetown and was equipped with 11 CH-135 Twin Huey and 10 CH-136 Kiowa helicopters. In August 1980, the Squadron gained aircrew and support personnel from the disbandment of 422 Squadron.

August 1980 saw an Air Ground Operations School formed to provide advance training for future Flight Commanders and Operations Officers. Renamed Aviation Tactics Flight in June 1995, the Flight continues to provide this training, as well as, aviation support to the Combat Training Centre, 1 Wing and the Air Force.

As a Rotary Wing Aviation Unit, the Squadron conducted two rotations of the Multi-National Force and Observers.

 

[Loachman]

I spent a pleasant couple of weeks with 422 Squadron in late 1978. At that point, 403 Squadron was exclusively a training Squadron, whereas 422 Squadron was the operational one. 422 Squadron principally supported CTC and other Gagetown units. It was commanded by a Major rather than a Lieutenant Colonel as it was rather small, consisting solely of Aircrew and, I believe, one Adm Clerk. Aircraft were shared, although I'd presume that they officially belonged to one Squadron or another, and maintenance was provided by 403 Squadron.

422 Squadron was folded into 403 Squadron as Tac Flight, which eventually disappeared.

I doubt that either Squadron ever spent much time deployed to the field, other than AGOS/ATF courses. AGOS used to run the FAC Course.

I did my Kiowa Course in late 1982, and my FAC Course in September 1983. I do not recall seeing any M151s at all. Almost all of the vehicles that we used were 5/4 Tons. I'd root through my old photo alba and see if any snuck into any photos, but I cannot get at them.

 

[gaspasser]

PM me with the CFR and I"ll see what info I can bring up on it with FMS.

TN,
FMS won't have anything going that far back. 

armybuck041, have you tried contacting 403 itself and their historical officer?
There is also a Jeep historical society in Toronto (their name escapes me) but I did see them at Warriors Day all decked out and rolling...some complete with .50s (very sweet looking) 
Regards, someone who is qual'd the old 50 pattern jeeps (33)  :blotto:

 

[armybuck041]

Thanks for the tip NFLD Spr.... I've already Wiki'd and checked the Air Force Website for details on the Unit itself

When I initially put this thing back together, I just slapped 22 Fd Sqn Tac Signs etc on it, as it I know what an Engr Sqn Veh should be equipped with and how to correctly mark one. As I start to move into the College level of this Hobby, i'm more concerned about reality than "sexy". I am a member of the OMVA and have spoke with great detail about the more general issues like paint color etc etc.

I guess its kind of like alot of the MV restorations in the US. A very disproportionate number of the Jeeps you see restored have 82nd or 101st Airborne markings etc, because its sexier than having a Motor Pool vehicle from a Service Battalion or something.

What i'm trying to avoid is "Tac"ing this thing up, hunting down demilled KY-57 Boxes and other little "things", only to find out it was most likely "bare ***" and probably used to deliver Box Lunches to the Flight Line, a static Trg Aid for Rigging or something administrative
Conversely, its not out of the question it was getting dropped off and picked up by Chinooks in the Lawfield Corridor or some other role that required more than a "bare ***" M151A2. Cam Nets? Coleman Stoves? Pressure Cooker? Radios? I currently have two RT-524s and the rest of the Comms installation that was typical for the era, but i'm wondering if they used a different system like HF for FAC or something.

I think my best bet is going to be stopping in at 403 next time i'm in Gagetown.

Thanks for the offer to hunt for photos Loachman, I was typing this while you posted.

 

[armybuck041]

Actually, now that you mention it Loachman, this may have been a 422 asset originally, if 422 folded into 403. I've seen a few other examples in EDR Viewer where when a UIC has been removed/stood down etc, the system will default to the next most current UIC or nearest ASU that the DA would have been x-ferred to. This would make a bit more sense.

On a side note, the M151A2 that is now a static display on the Command Road going into Gagetown was also a 403 asset. It also had Comms Installs etc that lean towards an operational role.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Loachman]

I'll be seeing a couple of other guys who did their Kiowa and FAC courses about the same time as me, or slightly later, tomorrow. I'll ask if they remember anything.

We used UHF for FAC, as that's all that fighters had then, and we stood on top of a 5/4 CP for most of the ground-based runs - better view.

If it saw regular use as a slung load, I really doubt that it would be driveable, or maybe even recognizable.

 

[Timmy!]

Regards, someone who is qual'd the old 50 pattern jeeps (33)  :blotto:

Hey.. 33 SVC BN still has that jeep and bren gunner carrier!